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J169 Echo

J169 Echo

J169 Echo

I have had several instances when customers have been switched from digital phones to J series phones complain of echo on calls. These only happen with J169 phones on analog trunks. No complaints on PRI or SIP trunks. Any thoughts as to why this is happening and any solutions?

RE: J169 Echo

Possible Solutions:

Phone GAIN Control settings adjusted?

Also see below.

Connect to the System using IP Office Manager and select Line. Review each Analogue Line on the system for the following:
a. Impedance Match is set to Automatic:
b. Confirm D->A gains on all Analog Lines are set to -3 dB, if not set it. A->D should be 0

Confirm the VCM tab settings under System are set Echo Return Loss = 6 dB, Nonlinear Processor Mode = Adaptive, NLP Comfort Noise Attenuation = -9 dB and
NLP comfort Notice Ceiling = -55 dB

Under the analog options for each line ensure the Echo Reduction setting is "Off"

Using the Select IP Office menu to select the system and enter the administrator name and password. IP Office Manager displays the System
Shutdown Mode menu

Select Indefinite and click OK.

NOTE: The shutdown process takes up to a minute to complete. When shutting down a system with a Unified Communications Module installed, the
shutdown can take up to 3 minutes while the card safely closes all open files and closes down its operating system. During this period, the module's LED
1 remains green

Do not remove power from the system until the system LEDs are in the following states:
a. LED 1 on each installed base card flashes fast red-amber. For those base cards with a trunk daughter card installed, LED 9 also flashes fast redamber.
b. The CPU LED on the rear of the system flashes fast red-amber.
c. The System SD and Optional SD memory card LEDs on the rear of the system are off

Once the LED conditions in step 4 are met, remove the power cord from the back of the IP Office.
Count to 30 and then reconnect the power cable to the back of the IP Office Chassis.
Once the Phones return to service, please disable the AGC (Automatic Gain Control) option on the phones.
a. Press the key menu MENU/HOME button and select Settings.
b. Use the up arrow up and down arrow keys to highlight Advanced Options. Press Select.
c. Use the up arrow and down arrow keys to highlight Automatic Gain Control. Press Select.
d. Use the up arrow and down arrow keys to switch between Handset, Headset, or Speaker settings for AGC.
e. To change the highlighted setting, press Change, and select Off
f. When completed, press Save.
g. Press Back / Exit to exit the menus.
h. Wait 5 minutes, then call into each line on the IP Office and record the outcome of each call and any noticed differences between the lines tested.
If there is echo detected on one or two of the lines on the system, re-check the Impedance Match setting that was detected and set by the system on boot. If the
lines that are still having echo are set different than the rest of the lines on the system that are clean. Then uncheck the Automatic setting for the lines still showing
echo, and manually set the Impedance Match value to match the other clean lines. The system will require a reboot to save the changes, no power cycle, just
standard system reboot.
Retest all lines again, and confirm if the echo has cleared

For Sites with Returning Echo We can test the following changes:
1) Set the Codec selection to G.711 only:
2) Manually set the Impedance on the lines to 600 by disabling Automatic and selecting it from the drop down. 600 ohm is the North American Default Line
Note: The automatic matching does work with the Analog 16 trunk module and only works with the ATM combo card. Take the analog line out of the ATM 16 and test
using the card. Once the impedance has been run on the line, place the line back in the ATM 16 and manually set the Impedance.

If It's Not Broken...Don't Fix It!

Stephen Webb
Norstar, BCM and IP Office Engineer

RE: J169 Echo

Thank you. Will give it a try.

RE: J169 Echo

We advise customers that use SIP to analog for lines should NOT use IP phones. The call is converted before the phone system, SIP to analog, and then the system has to convert the call again from digital to IP. Avaya already had a document about fixing issues with true copper with IP phones. Once you add the second conversion it is just to much in my experience and there always seems to be some kind of quality issues to varying degrees.

The truth is just an excuse for lack of imagination.

RE: J169 Echo

Moved customer from analog lines to SIP trunks and problem went away. I knew this would solve the issue since we have already done this with SIP and PRI. I was just hoping there was a workaround. I tried all the steps above and it did not help so that's when we convinced customer to swap to SIP trunks. Not only did this fix the problem but it ended up saving them $400 per month for telephone service.

RE: J169 Echo

That has been my experience as well. You try everything and the quality issue remains. If you switch to SIP or PRI it fixes the issue.

The truth is just an excuse for lack of imagination.

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