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Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?
4

Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

(OP)
Hey all,

been some time and hope you are staying healthy, prosperous, and safe.

With everything going on in the world we recently had an internal meeting here and wanted to hear from the community. With nearly the entire world working from home, is the legacy PBX officially dead in favor of cloud solutions?

What are your thoughts?



viirtue.com | White Label UCaaS and Quoting for Service Providers | 12+ Year Telco Veteran

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

We are seeing more and more of our customers moving to cloud. we have also set up a lot of hybrid type solutions with cloud and PBX's linked up to make working remotely easier with twinning and remote Aps or phones.

Kevin Wing
ACSS Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) Communications
ACS- Implement IP Office
ACA- Implement IP Office
Vive Communications

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

The solutions that I see are VoIP/SIP systems directly connected onsite to a PABX - then the end users if remote can access SIP extensions on the VoIP system but also have the legacy solutions available onsite.

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

I do think there will be more then usual digital sites that will tend to migrate to either IP PBX's or Hosted(Cloud), however digital will be here for awhile still but still getting smaller and smaller.



________________________________________


=----(((((((((()----=
www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

Add me to LinkedIN

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Hosted has it's place and line size. When you get to larger systems, hosted becomes very expensive. We still sell quite a few legacy systems, however they tend to go with SIP trunks/remote IP phones. It makes fail-over easier to administer.

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

We've spent the last month helping customers with "legacy PBX"es work from home.

With a Group IPSec VPN, IP phones can connect from any remote site.

With proper firewall programming, softphones, smart phone apps, and SIP phones can connect from any remote site

Hosted systems, users can get a PoE Injector and take their office phone home with them

Even without the ability to use remote phones, Twinning can get calls to user's cell phones, and also allow users to call out through the pbx - as long as the dial tone is SIP or PRI, even if the legacy phones are digital TDM

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

We had a business unit try to go "to the cloud" against our advice. They went with a big name and paid a big price. Post-implementation there were a lot of issues. One of them being the agent couldn't create conference calls. The vendor told us "we're not a PBX". In the end, both parties agreed to terminate the contract.

LoPath
Maintain HiPath 4000 V5 & V6, OpenScape Xpert V4 & V6, OpenScape Xpressions V7, OpenScape Contact Center V8, OpenScape Voice V9

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

"is the legacy PBX officially dead in favor of cloud solutions?"

When you say "legacy" I had assumed you meant Digital phone systems.
I cannot imagine an IP system being called a legacy system already, perhaps phoneguy610 you can confirm what system types you are referring too when you say "legacy"?

Thanks

________________________________________


=----(((((((((()----=
www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

Add me to LinkedIN

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Larger systems were primed up to going private cloud and that jump is in progress. Smaller systems it simply makes sense to buy cloud services as you need them though.

In house TDM systems have been a dying breed for more than a few years. Now that no one wants to be in the office they are pretty much officially dead. H.323 systems have their limitations when cloud based even though they usually offer a better feature set. All the experts have been pointing to SIP for a while and it looks like that's where everything is going. Quickly.

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Good thing I'll be retiring soon.

Marv ccna

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

(OP)
@curlycord TBH i meant anything where the server is on prem, but i still for sure see the continued use case of Converged PBXs that can handle IP as well. So i should rephrase, has COVID-19 killed the legacy digital pbx?

viirtue.com | White Label UCaaS and Quoting for Service Providers | 12+ Year Telco Veteran

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

(OP)
@lopath that seems more so like they found the wrong fit. May i ask your reasoning when trying to defer someone away from the cloud?

viirtue.com | White Label UCaaS and Quoting for Service Providers | 12+ Year Telco Veteran

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Thanks for clarifying.

________________________________________


=----(((((((((()----=
www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

Add me to LinkedIN

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

@phoneguy610 - My comments are coming from an office building type of environment, not remote workers.

I mean, if the cloud solution can't meet the features you need, then why should you go to the cloud? I can't elaborate on which cloud vendor this was, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some other cloud vendor that could have done it. This one was a big name and couldn't.

Also, disaster recovery. As one of my mentors once told me, you can't put all of your eggs in one basket. Ask people how many times they have network problems. With a cloud solution, you'd better have redundancy and diversity with your network connections.

LoPath
Maintain HiPath 4000 V5 & V6, OpenScape Xpert V4 & V6, OpenScape Xpressions V7, OpenScape Contact Center V8, OpenScape Voice V9

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

(OP)
@lopath, love the conversation, hope you don't mind if I tackle these =)

I mean, if the cloud solution can't meet the features you need, then why should you go to the cloud? I can't elaborate on which cloud vendor this was, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some other cloud vendor that could have done it. This one was a big name and couldn't.

can you specify what feature? I was an engineer at nortel for some time and then Avaya Toshiba dealer for some time) so ton of experience with PBXs. Theres nothing on those systems our current cloud platform can't do so I'm curious to which feature you mean.

Also, disaster recovery. As one of my mentors once told me, you can't put all of your eggs in one basket. Ask people how many times they have network problems. With a cloud solution, you'd better have redundancy and diversity with your network connections.

Valid point but generally cloud infrastructures (such as ours for example) start at 1 million dollars worth of cybersecurity and geo diverse uptime tools. How would an on prep server beat that as far as DR or Uptime? Isn't that truly putting all your eggs in one basket? I know that was thrown around here a while back, but I think id chalk that up to FUD vs real reasoning more then anything else. As far as network problems go, that's a valid problem - and why its best to have a local partner providing voip services vs one of the big guys so they can provide qos tools, SD wan etc. Ive never met someone who with a properly deployed network had issues. So in short, either way you're putting your eggs in one basket. Wouldn't you prefer the million dollar secure basket vs the 10k scrapped together one?

viirtue.com | White Label UCaaS and Quoting for Service Providers | 12+ Year Telco Veteran

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

I have found that premise based PBX users have a hard time using hosted phones when they cannot see who is on the phone, or place a call on hold and have someone with the line appearance pick it up. The concept of transferring a call to a person sitting next to you is foreign to them. When everyone is scattered at different locations, transferring is the only way to extend the call. I too have worked with several hosted providers, who after being bought out, scrapped their smaller customer base. The hosted users were tasked with finding a new provider and a new payment platform. When you crunch the numbers, after 3-4 years of hosted you own nothing and could have purchased a system several times over. Hosted has it's place and market, but it's not for everyone. Another way to describe cloud or hosted is, "someone else's computer". We too sell hosted solutions. But we fully explain the good and bad before getting a signature. I won't even go into FAX and external paging issues.

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Belevedere we can do all of what you say on our cloud platform. We can do line appearances and also Park zones. We have BLF and it works very well. we were an Avaya shop and i have been doing IPO for about 15 years. I can do just about everything you could with the IPO on my cloud. We have a good Fax and Efax solution with it. Paging is pretty easy with a 3rd party paging adapter or paging through the phones.

Kevin Wing
ACSS Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) Communications
ACS- Implement IP Office
ACA- Implement IP Office
Vive Communications

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Is your platform Avaya?

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

@phoneguy610 - the biggest feature problem that they couldn't handle was conferencing. Our agents conference multiple parties together, sometimes starting from an inbound ACD call. The solution they tried was an add-on conferencing service. It was horrible. We'd have random people pop into our conferences! Hello, HIPAA violation?

I totally agree that the network can be improved and given the proper diversity and redundancy. Unfortunately a lot of businesses don't want to spend a penny on their infrastructure. Our company has been putting band-aids on the network for years. I've seen 3 regime changes on the IT side and nothing changes. They spend a ton of money on a pet project or two and leave the core network to crumble. I'm almost hoping our core switch will fail and cause the company millions in losses, as it was identified for replacement at least 8 years ago.

OK, that's enough apathy for today! TGIF worm

LoPath
Maintain HiPath 4000 V5 & V6, OpenScape Xpert V4 & V6, OpenScape Xpressions V7, OpenScape Contact Center V8, OpenScape Voice V9

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

have been installing cloud and onsite systems over last year and have returned to many cloud systems to replace them with onsite systems due to customer dissatisfaction.

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Cost and control is what will keep on-prem PBX around for the foreseeable future. Anyone supporting more then 50 to 100 users is often gonna do cost assessments and and realize on-prem is cheaper. Also most hosted solutions don't give access to command line that makes administrating and trouble shooting larger systems much more efficient.

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

(OP)
@belevedere - and what premise system is not antiquated after 5 years? With hosted new updates come out you get them free instantly. With premise you either have to purchase new hardware or pay for licensing upgrades. 6 one way, half dozen the other. Not just pbx having hardware onsite in a server room is antiquated any way you look at it. Email servers, sans, even firewalls are being virtualized. And agreed with kwing, almost all hosted platforms can do SLA, static call park appearances and more. + when you get into the new stuff like ms teams, who cares about extensions when you can just point and click to call john smith instead of searching for his extension number.

@lopath - seems like they found the wrong vendor. Most ive heard of including ours are password protected. Standard audio conference bridges are a bit antiquated IMO, but our web meetings tool has multiple forms of protection from pin to invite only.

What we are seeing is smb go pure hosted, and enterprise space is eyeing teams


viirtue.com | White Label UCaaS and Quoting for Service Providers | 12+ Year Telco Veteran

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

(OP)
and @belvedere our partners install the algo 8301 for paging and it works perfectly.

viirtue.com | White Label UCaaS and Quoting for Service Providers | 12+ Year Telco Veteran

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

@phoneguy610 "What premise system is not antiquated after 5 years?" Virtually any PBX based on Asterisk has free upgrades for life. Even the majority of companys that white label FreePBX based solutions no longer charge for upgrades. That kind of stuff is dying out with proprietary vendors. Biggest enemy of long-term PBX's is fan failure now that storage is going all high reliability solid state.

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

(OP)
I mean youre comparing something free and opensource to the major players. All ill say on that front is "you get what you pay for" ;)

viirtue.com | White Label UCaaS and Quoting for Service Providers | 12+ Year Telco Veteran

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

You could say that 10 and 15 years ago but today Asterisk and FreePBX are mature, full featured, professional, and very well supported platforms. Asterisk is the backend for 9 out of 10 call centers and the majority of cloud hosted PBX providers are all Asterisk based as well. Traditionally proprietary solutions like Avaya are just riding brand recognition at this point but as time goes on that will only diminish more. Cloud hosted solutions will surely continue to be a major player for the foreseeable future for the under 50 user market. However, unless something changes hosted solutions will struggle to compete in cost when you have companies like Grandstream pumping out 100 user 50 concurrent call PBX for under $300 with no cost per extension or feature that have all the bells and whistles including built in FXO ports, and can work with under $60 phones and accept 3rd party devices no problem.

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Actually, free upgrades are included with maintenance agreements with all of the major equipment vendors. As said before....it really depends on size.

A few years ago while still working with a vendor, we sold hosted and premise based. We did many ROI evaluations and found 150 users to be the crossover point. At about 19 months, premise based was cheaper and made more sense for 150+ users. For customers less than 150 users, pay as you go hosted was cost effective for a much longer period of time and had other advantages for start-ups and incubators mainly not needing a large cap-ex. When customers were in the 1000 user range, premise based break-even ROI was closer to 12 months.

Again with some ambiguity if "traditional" and "premise based" are being used interchangeably here, I can't think of a premise based system not supporting VOIP for 10+ years now for remote users so I don't see how Covid-19 impacts that. It's almost like asking if car leases are going to be the death of car ownership/purchases. Doubtful....just always have been 2 different solutions to the same problem. Which solution is best will vary from person to person and company to company.

-CL

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

Well, we just shut our CS1K option 11 down in January 2020. She got to be shut down gracefully before this whole mess happened.

We have seen about 80 percent of our workforce start working remotely (about 2000 users) since our company went in to a "reduced operations" state. While I have deployed a number of Avaya soft client solutions for employees, we had to add an additional PRI to handle the increase of external incoming calls (i.e., people calling in to Skype/Teams meetings from a cell/landline). We live/work in a pretty remote setting in Central Canada so I don't see our traditional on site PBX going anywhere any time soon.

Telephone Analyst
CS1K/Avaya Aura

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

(OP)
random192 - they are mature, but no where near featureset as the real players in the class 4/5 softswitch space i.e. broadsoft, netsapiens, meta, etc..


Majority of cloud PBX providers today run the 3 mentioned above, with broadsoft still the leader by far.

lopes1211 - there are different strokes for different folks! Sip trunks to a converged platform is absolutely still a decent idea depending on the use case. Many of our partners sell hosted similar to the pbx model of low cost per seat and charge for the concurrent calls. So it scales better that way. Of course if youre looking at a platform that is $40/user that wont scale effectively, but most cloud providers who work in the enterprise space price it to be competitive that way. But for sure, sip trunks to a converged platform has cost benefits. And as you said updates are included with a maintenance agreement...mainteneance agreement is free with most cloud providers. But i digress. Theres value on both angles, just depends what the customer is looking for of course!

jmarkmoss - have you looked at deploying teams internally? If that makes up the majority of calling

viirtue.com | White Label UCaaS and Quoting for Service Providers | 12+ Year Telco Veteran

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

phoneguy610 - yes, we are looking to deploy Teams sooner than later. We had some discovery sessions last year w/ Microsoft re: integrating Skype for Business with our Avaya Aura environment.. needless to say we didn't get too far and MS was less than helpful. Their final recommendation was to install an SBC and migrate to Teams. We'll see where we end up. I just started deploying One-X for our IT support desk as we use H.323 stations on CM, and it has been working great. Avaya had told me they no longer support One-X, but sounds like a lot of people are still using it!

Telephone Analyst
CS1K/Avaya Aura

RE: Is COVID-19 the official cause of death to legacy PBXs?

I guess should be something like

Peer detail
username= <account>
type=peer
secret= <pin>
progressinband=never
port=5060
nat=auto
insecure=very
ignoresdpversion=yes
host=ippbx.net2phone.com
dtmfmode=rfc2833
context=from-trunk
canreinvite=no
allow=g729&g711&g723

user detail
username=<account>
user=<>
type=user
port=5060
context=from-pstn
canreinvite=no
allow=g729&g711&g723
Register string
acct:pin@ippbx.net2phone.com/siptrunking

Also see
https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/4e98c35a/files...

Wanet Telecoms Limited

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