×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you a
Computer / IT professional?
Join Tek-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Tek-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Deeply Philosophical Questions
8

Deeply Philosophical Questions

Deeply Philosophical Questions

(OP)

Quote (BBC Reporter)

There were also reports of hailstones the size of golf balls falling in the East Midlands

How were hailstones measured before the invention of golf balls?

It is time for pacifists to stand up and fight for their beliefs.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

(OP)
Did the first nine "Malcolm" films go straight to DVD?

It is time for pacifists to stand up and fight for their beliefs.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Testicles. But that didn't sound right on radio so they changed it. Did I really say that?

James P. Cottingham
I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

What is the opposite of "Uncanny"?

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

"canny"

Jim

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

uncanny: supernatural, eerie, mysterious.
canny: clever, shrewd, prudent, careful, steady.

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
“People may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel."

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

SantaMufasa,
    You have an uncanny knack to find canny definitions. OK, I know it's a stretch.

James P. Cottingham
I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

What I want to know is why they always pick on my State. Whenever there is some natural or man made disaster they compare it to the size of my State. "An area the size of Rhode Island was...", just not fair. It makes us feel sad.

Jim C.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Is there a mathematical equation for how much wood a woodchuck could chuck?

Is the PT Cruiser and the Chevy HHR the same vehicle only rebranded? They appear pretty similar....

"The asteroid is the size of Rhode Island and going to strike Texas. In the aftermath of the collision, the world will be utter chaos." I understand there is an aftermath to an event, what is the period of time called right before the aftermath? Premath, beforemath?

Learning - A never ending quest for knowledge usually attained by being thrown in a situation and told to fix it NOW.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

==> "An area the size of Rhode Island was...",
Just remember this: You're on a Rhode not taken to an Island where no man is alone. That's how special you are.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

CC,

Extra

Jim C.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (DrB0b)

"The asteroid is the size of Rhode Island and going to strike Texas. In the aftermath of the collision, the world will be utter chaos." I understand there is an aftermath to an event, what is the period of time called right before the aftermath? Premath, beforemath?

Well, if I remember correctly from High School, after math was either Social Studies or History. Before math was home room.

And technically, anything before aftermath, would just be math. Wouldn't it?

bigsmile


RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

==> "An area the size of Rhode Island was...",

In the UK it's "An area the size of Wales"

Question is, what happens if Wales was flooded?

Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

http://alvechurchlounge.org.uk

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

(OP)

Quote:

Question is, what happens if Wales was flooded

Would anyone notice the difference?

TANSTAAFL - BIYCGAGDAS, YCPC

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

In the UK we would not experience an "Aftermath" It would be "Aftermaths"!

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Remember - today is the only day to procrastinate, don't delay.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

I ponder - why is a completed building not called a built....

Be Alert, America needs more lerts

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Indeed, why does a built have more than one foundation?

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

(OP)

Quote (Old Philosophical Question)

If a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody there to hear it, does it make any sound?

New Philosophical Question
If a man expresses an opinion and his wife is not there to hear it...

Spoiler:

Is he still wrong?

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

this thread got pretty existential rather quickly.

Is the colour red really red or is it green, and we are only told its red?

Are we awake, or asleep? How would you know?

I suspect the answer to the OP's question is, "F**king hell, those are big hailstones!" "How big are they?" "Really big." "How big is 'big' then?" "HUGE!" smile

ACSS - SME
General Geek



RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (hairlessupportmonkey)

Are we awake, or asleep? How would you know?

The thing to remember is, there is no spoon.


RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (HairlessSupportMonkey)

this thread got pretty existential rather quickly.

Is the colour red really red or is it green, and we are only told its red?


There's a great article in Discover magazine about tetrachromats that may go a long way toward answering your question... or obfuscating it entirely.

-------++NO CARRIER++-------

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Oh, and 42.

-------++NO CARRIER++-------

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

I always loved the newspaper headlines that American Dad's Stan Smith read each morning at his front door. My favorite is, "Optimist Drowns in Half-Full Bathtub."

Jim

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote:

Is the colour red really red or is it green, and we are only told its red?
No it's every colour but red, as that is the wavelength not absorbed by the object, ergo it's every colour but the colour rejected winky smile

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Free Dance Music Downloads

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (1DMF)

No it's every colour but red, as that is the wavelength not absorbed by the object, ergo it's every colour but the colour rejected

Uhhh, that depends on whether you are talking about a red object, or a red light. True a red object is not absorbing red wavelength light, but a red light is red light.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

True, but color is defined as the wavelengths being reflected, not the wavelengths being absorbed.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

But, if I turn on a red laser, it is emitting red wavelength light. Absorption or reflection has nothing to do with it. Red light is red light.

Light of a certain color's wavelength, is that color. An object that appears to be a color is reflecting that color and absorbing all others.

Yes, if I have a red cricket ball, it is absorbing all wavelenths but red, and I see the red that's reflected (not absorbed).

And the statement that an object that appears red to us is "every color but red" is just wrong. Yes, it may be absorbing every color but red, but it's not "every color but red". That statement just kind of muddles what's actually happening.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

But my question still stands, how do you KNOW its the colour red? Its only because we are taught the colour red, blue, orange, green etc are those colours.

Interestingly my two year old daughter, who is very bright and knows a lot of stuff, and also knows all her colours except she still tells me red is green, even though she also says green is green, yet I have reminded her many many times, its red. I know she is bright, because everything else, I only need to teach her once.

ACSS - SME
General Geek



RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

==> except she still tells me red is green, even though she also says green is green,
That may be indicative of red-green color blindness. It might be worth having an ophthalmologist/optometrist check it out.

That's a good question - How did that color wavelength of ~680 nm come to be known as red, and the wavelength of ~480 known as blue, and so forth. I'm going to look into how the colors got their names.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Possible it is, not likely a girl is colour blind, they tend to be the carrier of the gene. No one else in her family is colour blind either. I think its just two-year-old-ness

ACSS - SME
General Geek



RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote:

But, if I turn on a red laser, it is emitting red wavelength light. Absorption or reflection has nothing to do with it. Red light is red light.
Light of a certain color's wavelength, is that color.
The red of laser light is different to the red of a billiard ball. Laser light is (almost) monochromatic, i.e. of truly one wave length (not exactly, just of a very narrow bandwidth), whereas "normal" red light has a larger bandwidth and is still a mixture of wavelengths.

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Scientifically we can describe colour, philosophically and existentially, that's harder.

ACSS - SME
General Geek



RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote:

And the statement that an object that appears red to us is "every color but red" is just wrong. Yes, it may be absorbing every color but red, but it's not "every color but red". That statement just kind of muddles what's actually happening.
depends on whether you believe something holds an attribute based on what it is made up of. there is no part of a red wave length in a red object therefore it does not contain anything to do with red.

You just have a different opinion or perspective on things, it doesn't make mine wrong!. the fact still remains that the object contains the energy of light except the red wavelength! I consider something to be made up of things, not what they are not made up of. Is a sponge cake called a fruit cake because it has no fruit in it?


"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Free Dance Music Downloads

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

>the fact still remains that the object contains the energy of light except the red wavelength!

That sentence doesn't even begin to make sense, I'm afraid.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

To you perhaps, but the thread is called 'Deeply Philosophical Questions' , and that is my philosophical view of colour!

Which is why I beleive blackholes contain all light, and are not black!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Free Dance Music Downloads

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Yikes! Another can-o-worms.

Light cant escape a black holes gravity, hence why they appear "black" since no light or radiation or energy or matter is being emitted, apart from around the event horizon....

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/k-4/stori...

ACSS - SME
General Geek



RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

2

Quote:

How did that color wavelength of ~680 nm come to be known as red, and the wavelength of ~480 known as blue, and so forth. I'm going to look into how the colors got their names.
That's an excellent question, CC!
I've done some quick digging and found, that "Red" is derived from indogermanic "reudh / rudhirà-h" which means "bloody". This root also lead to the word "rust".
"Blue" comes from ancient German "blao" for "shimmering", and "Green" from ancient German "gruoen" => to grow (also: gruoen=>grow).
smile

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

hairlessupportmonkey - the question is are they black inside? or as bright as a sun, how many photon of light do they contain and would you need your sun glasses should you enter one?

It seems this thread is now looking for a linguistical answer not a phlisophical one winky smile

Why is a chair called a chair or a door a door, they are just labels IMO.

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Free Dance Music Downloads

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote:

the question is are they black inside? or as bright as a sun, how many photon of light do they contain and would you need your sun glasses should you enter one
One can only surmise as to what they "look like" inside as no one can take a peek.
They are probably to the greatest part nothing but radiation. Intense radiation. However they wouldn't be bright - visible light is rather low in energy whereas "inside" the event horizon, everything should be very highly energetic, so it is probably all hardest gamma rays. Not even a Ray ban would do you any service there. tongue
Why is a chair called a chair? Because it is a chair. rednose
Although: if you threw one in a black hole it might be spit out by a white hole in an alternate universe as a box of chocolates! bigcheeks

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

lol - well after all 'life is like.....'

Are gamma ray burst visible? what is 'visibility'.

Are there creeatures that use Ultra Violet light or other frequencies to see, are we defining 'visible' by the limitations of our own eyes?

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Free Dance Music Downloads

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

>are we defining 'visible' by the limitations of our own eyes?

If we are talking about 'visible to humans' then yes, of course. How could it be otherwise?

>Are there creeatures that use Ultra Violet light

Yes; many insects can see in the ultraviolet range.

>'Deeply Philosophical Questions' , and that is my philosophical view of colour!

But even if we accepted your view that energy and wavelength are the same attribute, or that 'energy of light' is some sort of fixed value, or that objects contain light energy (all of which is what you seem to be trying to say in the statement I picked ony), it is still horribly wrong to pick on wavelength - it is the frequency that is important to the philosophical point you are trying to make.


RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

==> I consider something to be made up of things, not what they are not made up of.
Objects are not made of color. Color is a property of an object that is based on the behavior of the object, not the composition of the object.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (1DMF)

Why is a chair called a chair or a door a door, they are just labels IMO.

I'm glad someone mentioned chairs! bigsmile

I believe it was in Douglas Hofstadter's book Godel, Escher, Bach that he mused about what constitutes a "chair". If I draw a simple picture...

/|__
|/_/|
| |

...and ask what it is, people will say it's a chair. But it's not really a chair. It's a bunch of lines on a screen. Even as a representation of a chair, it's not a very good one. He questioned, what gives those 11 or so lines their "chairness" so that most people looking at it will immediately say "it's a chair".

Going simpler...

|
|__
| |
| |

...many people will still say it's a chair. It still has enough "chairness" to be recognized as one.

Then, think about some of those ultra-modern chairs with organic blobby egg shapes and no discernible legs, something like these...

Example Chair 1
Example Chair 2
Example Chair 3
Example Chair 4

People will still look at those and say, "Hey! Look at that chair!" People have no problem picking chairs out of a lineup, no matter how strange the chair is. If you were to try to program a computer to recognize chairs, the problem becomes huge. Sure, the mainstream chairs might be easy for it to spot, but it's going to miss a lot of those weird ones, and there will be a lot of false positives on things like BBQ grills, and automobile bonnets (yes, you can sit on grills and bonnets, but does that add them to the set labelled "chairs"?).

If you haven't read Godel, Escher, Bach, you should. I think everyone in this thread would love it. Anyone interested in intelligence (artificial or otherwise), or perception, should love it. I especially like the part about the conversation with an ant colony (not any individual ant, but the colony as an intelligent collective organism).

Apologies in advance if I'm referencing the wrong book. It's been probably 30 years since I last read it.

afro2
John 3:16

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

And on the topic of black holes, I believe that inside the event horizon, our concepts of space and time break down and don't apply, so things like photons at a certain wavelength don't really make sense. The term "hole" is a misnomer. It's not a hole. It's a collection of matter so dense that it has warped both space and time to something well beyond our day to day experience.

But still wear sunglasses just in case! bigglasses

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (Sam)

Anyone interested in intelligence (artificial or otherwise), or perception, should love it...

Ah, yes, just what is "love"? <grin>

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
“People may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel."

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (MakeItSo)


I've done some quick digging and found, that "Red" is derived from indogermanic "reudh / rudhirà-h" which means "bloody". This root also lead to the word "rust".
"Blue" comes from ancient German "blao" for "shimmering", and "Green" from ancient German "gruoen" => to grow (also: gruoen=>grow).

I've always wondered how different our world would be if we had different colored blood.

Lodlaiden

You've got questions and source code. We want both!
There's a whole lot of Irish in that one.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

On the blackhole question - I have thought this one out on a number of occasions. I too once believed that black holes contain all of the light that has ever crossed the event horizon. This becomes meaningless however once you imagine what is happening to the wavelength of said light. Because time is warped, the wavelengths simply become longer and longer until thay are flat (no wavelength at all) at the event horizon. Outside of the event horizon they are so redshifted as to be black so no, black holes are actually black.

Here is a new question - When one observes a spinning wheel with spokes there is a point at which the spin rate equals the visual perception limit and the wheel then appears to be stationary. Is this spin rate constant for all people? If not is there any corrolation with differences in rate with some other factor such as intellegence?

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

As a physicist I have to say this on your theory, kwbMitel:

While time dilation also is valid for photons, they actually move at the speed of light and not near the speed of light, even in normal space. Still they are equal to a certain wavelength. That is the particle/wave dualism of light. But you can't argue for no color with neither time dilation. What's true is that the particle lifetime of photons in their own so called proper time is 0 (it never ages), as their speed is c. What really happens to photons on a black hole is the same as on earth/soil. It is partly absorbed,partly scattered, but it will never again pass the event horizon to the outside because of the gravity. You can see the gravity effect on light at the eclipse of the sun via the bent positions of stars behind the sun in comparison with their normal position.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_horizon: "The traveling object, however, experiences no strange effects and does, in fact, pass through the horizon in a finite amount of proper time."

Applied on the photons this means their energy equal to their wavelength doesn't change to a lower energy. "any object approaching the horizon from the observer's side appears to slow down". The main word here is "appaers", it just appears so. Indeed light going in to a black hole must gain energy. It can't accelerate of course, as it's already at the highest speed available. But if you talk about the picture you see of an object moving towards a black hole, you talk of photons emitted from that object in your direction, and that is slowered, but you can't talk about the image of a photon you observe moving to a black hole. A photon is not a light bulb emitting light, it's the quantum of light itself and only faces one direction.

The recent finding of the Higgs Boson makes another question more interesting again: Are there Gravitons? And if so, they must emit from black holes, otherwise black holes would have no gravitational effect on the outside, because gravitons are the gravitiy. That again means events inside the black hole, that create Gravitons do effect the outside world.

Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_disc, this suggests light can be emitted along the polar axis of a black hole. So overall in my understanding, depending on the reactions, physical or chemical, going on at the black hole surface of it's supermassive part, there could be light emitting in all directions, but it would be bent to fall back to the black hole surface.

Also see http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/11052..., the polar jets and the evolving of black hole spin is not understood. For such jets of xrays to be produced you can think of very fast spins and a very huge magnetic field of black holes, which might override the gravity especially at the poles of course.

Bye, Olaf.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Thanks Olaf, and yes I was speaking from the observers point of view, sorry for not being specific. I was expressing the thoughts as my own (as they are). I should have made it more clear that I wasn't expressing it as a fact only what I believe to be. I think I get the jist of your correction/elaboration. It seems I may have got myself confused between observation and actual events (common for me when talking about relativity)

Is it correct (close) to say that due to time dilation effects, the light as observed by a remote party is redshifted into a color indistiguishable from black?

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Yes! A Physicist mentioning the Higgs Boson and Gravitons!

Olaf my friend, when will I be able to buy a flying car? Or at least a Back To The Future hoverboard? It's way past due!

bigsmile

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

==> Is it correct (close) to say that due to time dilation effects, the light as observed by a remote party is redshifted into a color indistiguishable from black?
Yes, BUT ONLY if you're referring to the light being reflected from a mass that is falling into the black hole. That's not the same as saying the black hole appears black for the same reason. The black hole is not giving off any light that an observer could see, so there is nothing to red-shift. Only the light from objects outside the event horizon gets red-shifted from the perspective of a viewer.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Since this is a language forum after all, and we're so wrapped up in black holes, I think it only pertinent to introduce a term that some of you may not be familiar with: spaghettification.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Didn't Hawking once alter the phrase "Physics breaks down in the vicinity of a black hole" to "Physicists break down in the vicinity of a black hole"?

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Excellent, CajunCenturion, I fanally got something somewhat correct, and thanks for the new term. I had not remembered it eventhough I've read a book that is said to refer to it. (A brief history of time)

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote:

it is still horribly wrong to pick on wavelength - it is the frequency that is important to the philosophical point you are trying to make.
frequency / wavelength whatever, you seem to have some missguided concept that I understand waves or a wave function?

You can have a philisophical debate without having to understand the science, otherwise God wouldn't exist!

but if you want to beleive that light doesn't empart energy onto the objects it touches and doesn't change their colour, go sit in the sun naked and let's see how long you keep beleiving that!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Free Dance Music Downloads

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote:

Oh dear..... I.am.go.ing.to.res.ist.the.temp.ta.tion.
The tempation to what? We are not mind readers!

Thanks for the link, very informative and states that objects absorb the light and light is made up of colours shown when refracted, and those colours are converted to heat. so the object is made up of the colours it absorbs (well the energy)... Thanks for reaffirming my philisophical beliefs thumbsup2

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Free Dance Music Downloads

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

>you seem to have some missguided concept

Sorry, I was making the mistake of thinking you at least had some idea what you were talking about. In future I'll just assume that you make stuff up

>but if you want to beleive that light doesn't empart energy

As ever, you impart a meaning to my words that was never stated or even implied.

>and doesn't change their colour

Again, not something I stated or implied. However, since you mention it, the colour of an object that we perceive is reliant on the frequencies of the electrons in the surface of object the light is hitting, the frequency spectrum of the light itself, and, rather more importantly, of our brains* (here's just one example of our brains changing our perception of colour).

>You can have a philisophical debate without having to understand the science

Not really. To be able to have a philosophical debate you have to understand the argument from both sides. And if you do not appreciate why that is then you understand neither what a debate is nor philosophy.

And you certainly can't start trying to make your own point by (mis)using science that you yourself happily state you have no understanding of.



* I'm simplifying; human colour perception, as in how our brains interpret what we see, is a huge subject area

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

I particularly look forward to hearing how your 'philosophy' deals with transparent objects

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

@strongm - A transparent object still reflects and absorbs light. Hence why glass gets hot in the sun and you can 'see' it.

@1DMF - I was resisting the temptation to get into debates about the existence of god and least of all, your spelling of philosophical. smile

ACSS - SME
General Geek



RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

All this talk of chairs and philosophical debates reminds me of a story.

    The police are questioning a young collegiate football player about why he assaulted his professor.
Police: So, young man. Why did you hit your teacher with a chair.
Student: He asked me to.
Police: He asked you to? Why would he do that.
Student: He called me up in front of the class and told me to prove to him that the chair actually exists. So I picked up the chair and hit him over the head with it.

James P. Cottingham
I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

In the course of which he also proved the one aspect of Quantum Physics - that objects might get altered or even destroyed by observation!
tongue

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

speaking of Quantum Physics - Quantum Entanglement and the Pauli exclusion principle are very very exciting.

ACSS - SME
General Geek



RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

>@strongm - A transparent object still reflects and absorbs light. Hence why glass gets hot in the sun and you can 'see' it.

I'm well aware of that. My point, however, is that 1DMF's 'philosophy' (as stated so far) has no mechanism to explain transparency, based as it is on the idea that an object rejects colours that it is not made up of.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

@2ffat & MakeItSo -> rofl

Quote:

I was resisting the temptation to get into debates about the existence of god and least of all, your spelling of philosophical.

Well that was not the point of the comment, ( to start a debate) it was to emphasise the fact people debate and have philosophical views about God, without undertanding any science or having any proof he exists, so I disagree with Mike's comment regarding the pre-requisite for being able to have a philosophical discussion winky smile I can't accept he actually beleives that people who believe things he doesn't or don't understand a particular field should shut up and not be allowed to express their opinion, I never had him down as a Bigot noevil

Oh and I spell it that way because I'm a Philistine pharaoh

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Free Dance Music Downloads

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Speaking of philosophy and reflection:
Don't you find it intriguing, that no matter what you look up in Wikipedia, if you follow the first link of the article and then the first links of every follow-up article, you will eventually end up at "Philosophy".
ponder

Does this reflect somehow that Philosophy is the basis of all knowledge or rather that reflection is the basis of all philosophy?
Or is it that philosophy simply pervades everything regardless of how "dry", scientific, formulative it is?

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

(OP)
All this talk of chairs is making me think about the Neil Diamond song "I Am I Said"...

Quote:

I am I said
To no-one there
And no-one heard at all
Not even the Chair

Was this a chair for sitting on or the PC representation of Chairman (of the board for example)?

Just trying to lighten up a bit!

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

(OP)
Sorry, as I'm not "down with the kids", can you explain "wiki is whack!"

Youtube not permitted at work so I'll pass on your link.

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

>not be allowed to express their opinion

Again, that is not what I said. I said that you appeared to misunderstand the meanings of 'philosophy' and 'debate', and that you have to understand the argument from both sides (more-or-less precisely the opposite of what you are indirectly accusing me of)

For example, a conversation is not a debate, and expressing an opinion is not a debate. And an opinion in most cases is not a philosophy. Simply stating a divergent view (e.g. "clouds are made of cotton wool") is not philosophy.

Furthermore, the philosophical considerations as to whether God exists are not the same thing as faith (faith in anything, of course, by it's very nature requires no justification beyond "I believe it to be so, and that's all the proof I need", and thus can safely ignore any counterarguments without having to actually engage in them). Philosophical reflection on what is meant by the term "God" and whether such a God exists tries to use somehwat more rational methods to clarify this problematic situation

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

My apologies to those without youtube.

The current "discussion" reminds me of a Monty Python Skit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

(and sorry for my contribution for taking this into the weeds)

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Speaking of that Monty Python sketch:
Would THAT actually be an argument or a dispute?
I'm think of disputes as described in Arthur Schopenhauer's "Eristische Dialektik" (The Art of Being Right):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Being_Righ...

Although, wait, no: I think the Monthy Python way would be rather verbal ping-pong.
bigcheeks

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Let's keep it both professional and topical. There is no justification for ad hominem remarks.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Technically the sketch was topical but I agree with your sentiments.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Although debate itself, is not philosophical, philosophy is debate.

ACSS - SME
General Geek



RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Wish I would have started reading this thread when it first appeared. Thought it was too deep for me.

djj
The Lord is my shepherd (Psalm 23) - I need someone to lead me!

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

@SamBones

>when will I be able to buy a flying car? Or at least a Back To The Future hoverboard? It's way past due!

You're asking the wrong person, you have to ask that to engineers, not to physicists. That's like asking a mathematician to calculate.

;)

Bye, Olaf.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

@MakeItSo - Sorry that I hadn't commented sooner, but the thread seemed to turn in a different direction. I'm glad you followed up. I think your findings of red, green, and blue getting their names from association with blood, growing plants and trees, and shimmering respectively make good sense. Nice work.

<side note>
Next time we get into a discussion about the Oxford comma, someone please remind us of this post and the above sentence.
</side note>


--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

@CC
Thank you for forcing me to this bit of research. It is really fascinating!
I also found these:
- yellow: noachitic "*ɢëλ" [ge:l] meaning "striking" (German: gelb, until 19th century still: gel)
- black: Ancient Germanic *blakaz = "burned"
- white: Ancient Germanic *khwitaz = "bright", or Sanskrit: sviteti = "to shine", svetu = "light

Actually it is kind of logical: names of colours as abstract concepts only appeared later. Their roots were what could be observed in nature. Not "green" but "like plants" not "blue" but either "like water" or (as in shimmering) "like metal", or "like a burnt tree stump" (black) etc.

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Yes, the connotations and denotations of the words 'fact' and 'opinion' can be interesting.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

What a brilliant quote. Thanks, Annihilannic.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Yes, Annihilannnic, thank you for sharing that quote. Sage words indeed.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (2ffat)


Testicles. But that didn't sound right on radio so they changed it.

OUAT I was helping the local Mensa proctor administer the Mensa admissions test at a convention and she turned to me and said "Wow, this is a big group. We should get a picture of this." So I dashed off to the 'hospitality suite', stood on a chair and shouted "May I have your attention? Is there a photographer here? The proctor would like you to come to the ballroom and take a picture of our testees."

Everyone looked at me somewhat slack-jawed (Grandma would have said 'like I had six heads and a hat on each one') and it was several seconds before I realized what I had just asked.

Frank Clarke
--America's source for adverse opinions since 1943.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Reminds of when, as a 10-year-old, I waxed lyrical to a family friend about octopi with their eight testicles...

Annihilannic
tgmlify - code syntax highlighting for your tek-tips posts

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (HJGoldstein)

New Philosophical Question
If a man expresses an opinion and his wife is not there to hear it...

Spoiler:
Is he still wrong?

There are only two things about me that my wife doesn't like:
1. Everything I say;
2. Everything I do.

-----------
With business clients like mine, you'd be better off herding cats.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Only if she is cute?

Jim C.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Please bear with me (i.e. don't get grizzly) but...
What the blazes is a "chromatic abnormality"?
3eyes

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

I'd say no, it is not an aberration. Aberration requires light - black (i.e. ideal black) is absence of light.
So I do not think black is a chromatic aberration but a chromatic absence.

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (MakeItSo)

So I do not think black is a chromatic aberration but a chromatic absence.
if black is the absence of light, then explain why you get black when one mixes blue, red and yellow food coloring?

Quote (MakeItSo)

black (i.e. ideal black) is absence of light.
I would agree, that in the absence of light, that there is blackness... ;)

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

It is what it is. What is what it is?

The great use of life is to spend it for something that outlasts it. ~William James

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

That's what the French keep asking: qu'est-ce que c'est? ("What is it that it is?)

Frank Clarke
--America's source for adverse opinions since 1943.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

(OP)
->qu'est-ce que c'est? ("What is it that it is?)

I would have said "What is this which this is.

[/pedantry]

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

That's always been the problem with pedantry: you wind up with forms that don't flow nearly as well as the antipedantic. winky smile

Frank Clarke
--America's source for adverse opinions since 1943.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Quote (BigBadBen)

if black is the absence of light, then explain why you get black when one mixes blue, red and yellow food coloring?

Each of the food colourings is a mixture of pigments which absorb light. The Blue colouring absorbs most of the wavelengths except the prominently blue light. Red absorbs much of the rest of the spectrum, including blue, except for a fraction that we perceive as magenta. That remaining light is effectively absorbed by the yellow pigment - thus no light returns from the mixture and it appears black.

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

If 'No good deed goes unpunished.', then does that mean that a good samaritan is actually a masochist?

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

thread revival!!!

Has anyone ever measured the depth of the hole in the eye?
If pigs could fly, where would they go?
With all of the zombie movies out there, why has no one made 'A Zombie Christmas Story'?
- he'll shoot they're eyes out!
Can you (using your fist) punch yourself in the face hard enough to knock yourself out?
If you swallowed enough change would it come out in stacks?





RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

Suburban Zombie Christmas is close.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1330537/

SUBURBAN ZOMBIE CHRISTMAS is a horror-satire that takes place over the 12 hellacious days of Christmas in Bedford, Nova Scotia. When celeb grocery guru Pete Potter praises an exotic new spice for Christmas pies and puddings, Suburbanites line up in droves for it. Unfortunately, this trendy spice is a secret soul-destroying herb from the isle of Haiti, the ancestral home of zombie-ism. Uh-oh! When undergrads Bailey, Harry, and Zuzu return home from college for Christmas break, they discover that their affluent parents have developed certain new 'tastes'. Instead of keeping up with the Joneses, they're now eating them. And the kids are next! Irreverent madness ensues, roasting Christmas conventions over an open fire. Preppy Bedford soon becomes a bloody battleground, as our young heroes fight to find the lost soul of Christmas in the blundering cannibalistic beast that the holiday has become!


RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

(OP)
==>If pigs could fly, where would they go?

If pigs could fly would bacon go up? pig

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

If a demijohn holds a gallon, how much can a john hold? Also, is it possible to get a bubble trap to fit the john, so that the home brewer can make wine in it?

RE: Deeply Philosophical Questions

For those interested in our perception of colour, I suggest reading "Through the Language Glass - Why the World Looks Different in Other Languages" by Guy Deutscher. Brilliant and entertaining.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Tek-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Tek-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Tek-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Tek-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Close Box

Join Tek-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical computer professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Tek-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close