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XP requires CD to boot? Logon jams? ntoskrnl changed?

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Leozack

Leozack

MIS
Oct 25, 2002
867
GB
I thought I'd seene evrything there is to know wiht XP by now. But then on my very own pc I had the following problem.

I have XP sp2. I installed visual studio 6 and some updates for it and the next time I ran windows update it said I needed an msVM update. Oh well I thought, fair enough, vs6 is old afterall now. So I installed it and rebooted.

To my horror I was presented with the "NTLDR is missing" message. After copying them back to C: from the XP cd and even going into the recovery console and running the fixmbr. But all to no avail - yet - what is this - I forgot to select "boot from cd" ... and it booted! I played around and have reached the scientific conclusion that if the XP cd is in my drive, but I don't boot from it, I can bootup ok. If it's not, I get that error. Argh!

Then a week later whilst I was using my workaround happily (happily?!) I had to reboot again - this time, it got as far as either applying computer settings or applying user settings. I gave it about 10m to sort itself out and it failed. And now it seems if I don't unplug my network cable whislt logging on and plug it back in only once windows has got past that point, will it work. Bare in mind I didn't break my network or anything to achieve this!

Oh, and to top it all off, sygate now reports after I reboot that NTOSKRNL.EXE has been modified, asking should it be allowed to go online. I've done full virus and spyware sweeps and I'm fine as always. I can only assume it's using the one off the XP cd or something crazy?!
All ideas VERY welcome. Just when you thought you'd seen it all o_O

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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My NTLDR and NTOSKRNL and NTDETECT have not disappeared. They are all there and fully in tact. I have even copied them from a friend with a working install and no change. That's the sort of thing I tried back at the beginning.

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Understood.. with them there.. but it's saying they aren't..

Registry Keys pointing to ntoskrnl.exe

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Nls\MUILanguages\RC\ntoskrnl.exe]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Nls\MUILanguages\RCV2\ntoskrnl.exe]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet003\Control\Nls\MUILanguages\RC\ntoskrnl.exe]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet003\Control\Nls\MUILanguages\RCV2\ntoskrnl.exe]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Nls\MUILanguages\RC\ntoskrnl.exe]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Nls\MUILanguages\RCV2\ntoskrnl.exe]

No registry keys for NTLDR.exe

No registry keys for ntdetect.exe

You should verify that the keys exist for NTOSKRNL.exe that I have above.

Computer/Network Technician
CCNA
 
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They all exist though they're binary so no idea if they're correct or not

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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For the drivers of Alcohol to be gone totally, you also need to deinstall, within the Device Manager, the following line:

under Systemdevices, Plug and Play Bios Extension (this is the Generic Hook of Alc in the System, which reloads the Virtual CD drivers or attempts too)...

another thing is that once Windows recognizes a file as faulty, it will flag it and will not allow you to load it (or copies of it) until the situation is fixed...

can you boot into Safety Mode? have you ran a Registry Fix progie (like Registry Healer, JV16 Powertools, ERUNT etc.)...

just a few thoughts...


Ben

If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer...
 
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I had forgotten something:

Did you try to repair the Installation via the RecoveryConsole yet?

With Boot Problems, I usually go to the Recovery Console, Bootet from the CD, there I type first FIXMBR (to assure that the MBR of the HD is correct and clean), then I type FIXBOOT (to fix any problems with the NTLDR)...

Hope this helps out... if it doesn't then I am afraid you may be up to a totally NEW INSTALL... if someone else doesn't have any ideas...



Ben

If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer...
 
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I'll uninsall alcohol and reinstall it next time I need it. It's not a problem once you follow the routine I did to get a proper repair install to run and get back into windows.

How can windows flag a file as faulty and not allow me to load a (fixed) copy of it without fixing the problem (the fixed copy)?

Just ran reg healer. 810 registry entries fixed. And yes I did just have to go through each one checking if I wanted it to be left alone, deleted, or changed to what. PAINFUL ><

As for FIXMBR and FIXBOOT - I looked at them but it scared me talking about resetting the MBR because I havea nonstandard (or corrupt) one. I figured this was because I have the drive partitioned. I CAN'T afford to loose my 2 partitions by running these. Is it safe?

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Ok so they'er saying "ignore this careful warning message that you might screw your drive up". Can you imagine teh confidence I have in doing this? I could loose my 10G windows partition and my 150G data partition. Anyone want to confirm this works on a partitioned sata drive despite the warning?

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Was the OS ever loaded on the HD as a ghosted image ? or a upgrade install from a 9x os ? The only time I have seen the NTLDR that fixboot fixmbr did not fix was in the upgrade or ghosted image but only on fat32 HD's. If you are Fat32 I have fixed by booting from a floppy win98 disk with sys.com on floppy and doing sys a: c: Them booting back to the XP repair concel and doing a fixboot and fixmbr. If memory serves me it has to do with the media bit type in the first boot sector.
 
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That's the first time you have mentioned a Sata Drive I assume the correct drivers are or have been loaded for it?

There is a FixMbr warning if this applies.

Problems with Drive Overlay Programs in Windows XP

If you go to look for MBRWORK in the free tolls and download it, put it on a DOS floppy (one made by formatting in XP and taking the MSDOS Startup disk option will do). This has the ability to fix MBR's and also the ability to back them up.



This is just a few jumbled thoughts (earlier) of mine while considering your dilemma. Some have already been mentioned but I repeat them again with a couple of additions.


A free boot manager which allows you to choose which hard drive (unlimited) you boot from, using a bootable floppy to achieve this.

Smart Boot Manager.

Booting from Floppy.

How to Use System Files to Create a Boot Disk to Guard Against Being Unable to Start Windows XP (Q314079)

Q305595 - HOW TO: Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP

Can you boot with any of the above Boot Manager or Boot Floppy methods? Knowing the answer to this may push you further along the path to a solution.



Recovery Console.

How to install and use the Recovery Console in Windows XP

A Discussion About the Bootcfg Command and Its Uses

Also see the FixMbr and FixBoot commands.

It would also be interesting to see if your present situation would allow you to install the Recovery Console as a Boot Startup Option (a type of dual boot with XP). On some rare occasions performing this procedure may reveal other errors which may lead to a solution to your booting problem. Unfortunately to install the Recovery Console to the hard drive requires a SP2 slipstreamed CD to avoid a mismatch of files where Windows is at SP2 already but your CD is only SP1.


These two articles give a practical view of how members with similar problems have fixed or attempted to fix a situation a bit similar to yours. I just added the third one for information.

WinXP Pro will ONLY boot from CD
thread779-890537

WinXP system volume separate from boot volume
thread779-567661

Error Message:Setup did not find any hard disk drives installed in you
thread779-972802

These last two articles are an overview of the booting process. A better understanding of the process may also lead to a solution.


also see this one.


Finally, I think it is time to post your Boot.ini file so that we can have a look at that too.
 
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Allteltec - I didn't ghost this drive and it is a fresh NTFS XP SP1 install that was upgraded immediately to SP2 and as of the other day had an upgrade install (failed) of sp2 and then a repair install of sp2 carried out.

Linney - I looked at the mbrwork program. It's display means nothing to me. I selected to backup the first track, and it just went back to the menu so no idea what that did.

I don't need to use a boot manager or recovery console (anymore) because currently my PC works fine as long as I have the xp cd in when I bootup but don't select to boot from it. I know my boot.ini is fine and my ntdetect.com and ntldr files are ok also.

I now have a slipstreamed SP2 cd I used the other day you'll note.

I did see in the readme file for another free tool (embrlock) on bootitng.com the following

"Here is a list of known programs which may try to write
sectors within the EMBR:

* Mechwarrior 4 Mech Pak (several).
* TurboTax.
* Novell's Zen For Desktops 4 imaging component.

* In general programs using the C_DILLA (SafeDisk/SafeCast) copy protection.
There are quite a few games which use it."

It's no coincidence I installed the mech 4 paks a couple of weeks ago. What exactly is EMBR if it's not MBR and why does this C_DILLA nonsense (I noticed the folder on C:\) do it? Could this be my ntldr problem etc?

I STILL don't want to run fixmbr or fixboot in the recovery console because I'm afraid it will loose my partitions or data on my partitions. The disk in question is a 160g sata with a 10g primary drive (windows) and 150g extended partition with a 150g logical drive in (data). I never needed to interject with SATA drivers during installation before for it to all be working ok.


_________________________________
Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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he record my boot.ini is the standard sort

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

Now I've pasted that I see the /noexecute=optin there which never used to be there. I'm pretty sure that only appeared when I was doing the reinstalls recently. I'll take it out and reboot but I'm pretty sure it won't change anything, I'll post if it does.

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Leozack - the line '/noexecute=optin' was placed there by the SP2 update... it enables a software variant of the AMD64 buffer overflow for Intel and AMD 32 bit processors... it can be safely deleted or even better yet replaced with just '/execute'



Ben

If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer...
 
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This talks about SATA, maybe your drivers are included in the XP CD?



For more information on EMBR try these?



SiSoft Sandra 2005 (1050)

The last link will give you an in depth analysis of your system and any faults found.
 
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Ok so my bootini is back to normal. I've tried the fixmbr command again and it hasn't helped. I still have to have the cd in the drive (but not boot off it) in order to boot into windows normally.
I took a look at sisoftsandra (much like aida then) but fail to see anything useful it can tell me there.

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Hey have you tried FIXBOOT?



Ben

If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer...
 
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From what I can see fixboot is for changing drives or something. Because the text says about using fixboot to write stuff if it's not the boot drive. Or something. I forget now.

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Fixmbr - fixes the Master Boot Record of a HDD...

FixBoot - Fixes the Boot up Routines... this basically rewrites Boot.INI, NTLDR, NTOSKRNL...

Ben

If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer...
 
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Sorry, the previous post was a bit off...

this is from MS direkt:

Fixboot

Writes a new partition boot sector to the system partition. The fixboot command is only available when you are using the Recovery Console

fixboot [drive]

Parameter

drive

The drive to which a boot sector will be written. This replaces the default drive, which is the system partition you are logged on to. An example of a drive is:

D:

Example

The following example writes a new partition boot sector to the system partition in drive D:

fixboot d:

Note
•

Using the fixboot command without any parameters will write a new partition boot sector to the system partition you are logged on to.

basically, this tells windows where to look for all the files... which it is looking for on CD at the moment...



Ben

If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer...
 
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Ok well I just ran fixboot reluctantly, it went ok, I rebooted, but still without the cd in it says NTLDR is missing, so it's not quite as quickfix as you implied unfortunately. Oh well, no gain, but no damage -_-

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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