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XP requires CD to boot? Logon jams? ntoskrnl changed?

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Leozack

Leozack

MIS
Oct 25, 2002
867
GB
I thought I'd seene evrything there is to know wiht XP by now. But then on my very own pc I had the following problem.

I have XP sp2. I installed visual studio 6 and some updates for it and the next time I ran windows update it said I needed an msVM update. Oh well I thought, fair enough, vs6 is old afterall now. So I installed it and rebooted.

To my horror I was presented with the "NTLDR is missing" message. After copying them back to C: from the XP cd and even going into the recovery console and running the fixmbr. But all to no avail - yet - what is this - I forgot to select "boot from cd" ... and it booted! I played around and have reached the scientific conclusion that if the XP cd is in my drive, but I don't boot from it, I can bootup ok. If it's not, I get that error. Argh!

Then a week later whilst I was using my workaround happily (happily?!) I had to reboot again - this time, it got as far as either applying computer settings or applying user settings. I gave it about 10m to sort itself out and it failed. And now it seems if I don't unplug my network cable whislt logging on and plug it back in only once windows has got past that point, will it work. Bare in mind I didn't break my network or anything to achieve this!

Oh, and to top it all off, sygate now reports after I reboot that NTOSKRNL.EXE has been modified, asking should it be allowed to go online. I've done full virus and spyware sweeps and I'm fine as always. I can only assume it's using the one off the XP cd or something crazy?!
All ideas VERY welcome. Just when you thought you'd seen it all o_O

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Thanks.
Call me stupid - but doesn't this overwrite the registry and other stuff? As in, isn't it close to the level fo "start again"ness of a format and reinstall? Reinstalling 98 over itself was a great way to fix problems wiht win98, but XP isn't that friendly and I've never had to do it, only format and start again, especially as a lot of the versions don't have the ugprade option to run from windows.
Are you sure I loose nothing if I do this? I won't haev to reinstall everyone MS product or every 3rd party product etc? I'm just hoping someone can confirm they've done this already and it works before I loose stuff doing it -_-
I also have an xpsp1 cd and am on sp2 (I installed sp2 straight after a fresh format and install not too long ago, I don't want to slipstream an sp2 cd while I'm in my current state!)

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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I have done this so many times - must be close to 100 times. Not once have I lost any user files, had to reinstall any applications or had any problems.

As with anything like this then it is wise to have a full back up just in case.

Greg Palmer
Freeware Utilities for Windows Administrators.
 
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Ok so - you're saying if I put in my XP SP1 cd and say upgrade (or do a repair install from bootup) it won't need anything redoing from within windows afterwards (like updates?) and it won't ruin my SP2 installation? I find it ahrd to believe this to be the case, surely I need an SP2 cd to do this with? (which I don't have and can't slipstream one if my current setup is dodgy, right?)
Or correct me :)
Thanks again

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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You'll have to redo the updates. Go through the link provided by GPalmer, one of the links at the bottom instructs you on what you'll have to do after the upgrade. Service packing is the only thing that remains consistent.

Just be aware, that you COULD lose some information or have to install some programs.
 
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If you use a SP1 CD then you will need to reapply SP2 and any subsiquent updates.

As both me and aquias have said you should be aware that with any major change like this there is always a possibility of something going wrong. However I am yet to come across someone who has lost anything by doing this.

Just make sure you follow the insturctions correctly and you should be fine.

Greg Palmer
Freeware Utilities for Windows Administrators.
 
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The repair installation of XP has been used by numerous users to fix many varied problems. While it is not 100% certain it will not cause you to lose programs, settings or data, it is about 99% safe. There is always a risk with any procedure which involves computers of some unfortunate mishap occurring.

Backing up that which is most valuable is always advisable.

A repair in your case with your current bootable XP CD would return you to a version of Windows equal to the CD you have. Or as you note, use a SP2 slipstreamed CD to perform the repair to avoid this.

One thing you could try first is running SFC /Scannow from the Start Run box. This will check for corruption of your System files using the latest files from both your current install XP CD and those SP2 files already on your hard drive.

If they don't work you could try repairing windows by running it over itself. You will lose all your windows updates (including SP2) but your files and programs will be untouched.

How to Perform an In-Place Upgrade (Reinstallation) of Windows XP (Q315341)

Slipstream Service Packs
thread779-900263

Your current problems may be as a result of having a mismatch of SP1 and SP2 boot loading files and even other mismatched system files.
 
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Ok guys - I ran chkdsk /p from the recovery console and the very last line said it found errors on the volume.
I ran SFC /Scannow and it did the full thing (I'm sure it accessed my cddrive (with win cd in) at 1 point) and then disappeared saying nothing.
I just slipstreamed an sp2 cd using my original xp cd and followed a guide to make sure it went right, burnt it, tried to boot off it just now to run the chkdsk, and it doesn't come up with "press any key to boot from cd" so I guess it didn't work? Great -_-

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Ok well this has really made my day. I tried making an sp2 cd using nero instead of ezcd and it worked ok. So after the chkdsk and sfc scans didn't change anything I ran the upgrade as you suggested.
And now? Now I still get the NTLDR is missing message if the xp cd isn't in the drive, but WORSE than that, even if it is in there and it tries to boot - it restarts itself shortly afterwards - guarenteed!! I've tried saying safe mode but it gets past agp440.sys and says press esc to skip a347bus.sys for a few seconds. As soon as that fades, or I press esc, it reboots.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH! I've now lost use of my primary pc! This is definately not good >< I'm now desperate because if noone saw that coming, I'll have to format and reinstall fresh all over again and that's a few days backing up and restoring not to mention the losses T_T

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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Do you have Alcohol software on this machine?

Windows XP Pro IN-place upgrade - setup fails, just restarts
thread779-905233

SFC leaves a report in the Event Viewer (System).
Event Type: Information
Event Source: Windows File Protection




"NTLDR Is Missing"


320397 - You Receive an "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Start Your Computer

318728 - HOW TO: Troubleshoot the "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message in Windows 2000

305595 - HOW TO: Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP
 
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Ok so here's the update summary so far :
-- After installing a windows update item for the MS virtual machine (or some such) after installing visual studio 6, I am told "NTLDR is missing" on bootup.
-- The only workaround to this was to bootup with an xp cd in the drive, but not to boot OFF it, just have it in there. It then boots fine.
-- When I get int windows sygate tells me NTOSKRNL.EXE has changed so I want to allow it to access the network? I scan for viruses and spyware but all is clean.
-- Shortly after this problem I find I have trouble logging onto my network and need to unplug the network cable whilst I do so or it hangs.
-- I put up with this for a week or 2 before posting here, and shortly after posting I find the logon delay seems to be gone and sygate isn't complaining about NTOSKRNL.EXE anymore.
-- But wanting to fix things I take the advice given here by helpful people as usual ^^
-- I try chkdsk /p and the last result line says there was an error but nothing more
-- SFC /Scannow leaves nothing but an event viewer system entry that it finished successfully.
-- I give up and to an inplace install (upgrade) of xpsp2. When booting up it continuously restarts, and the only clue is going into safe mode and seeing a347bus.sys mentioned.
-- I follow the advice from various sources stating this to be a "you reinstalled xp whilst having alcohol software installed" problem, and boot into recovery console and :
+ DISABLE a347bus.sys
+ DISABLE a347scsi.sys
+ RENAME a347bus.sys a347bus.bak.sys
+ RENAME a347scsi.sys a347scsi.bak.sys
+ ATTRIB -R atapi.sys
+ ATTRIB -S atapi.sys
+ RENAME atapi.sys atapi.bak.sys
and copy a fresh atapi.sys from the xp cd.
-- I then run a repair installation and huzzah, I can boot again.
-- The end result? Exactly like it was originally now - NTLDR is missing message taunts me at bootup unless I have an xp cd in, to get to the login box I have to unplug my network cable or it hangs, and when I get into windows sygate compalins NTOSKRNL.EXE has changed.

So - at this point, my computer is looking nervously at my window. And so it should. If I threaten to throw it out maybe it'll fix itself?

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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My opinion.. Have you done any kind of malware checks? I didn't see in your original post that you scanned for viruses, spyware, adware, etc..?

Computer/Network Technician
CCNA
 
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It should also be noted that to try and fix the NTLDR problem I have eliminated things from here :
and after reading :
I got the bcupdate2 utility from :
and booted into BartPE and ran it only to have it tell me the boot code was already uptodate!

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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LloydSev - see item #3 in that post :

-- When I get int windows sygate tells me NTOSKRNL.EXE has changed so I want to allow it to access the network? I scan for viruses and spyware but all is clean.

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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gotcha, musta missed that.

So explain what programs you used to scan? all version of malware types.

Computer/Network Technician
CCNA
 
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I used to use spybot but then I went to the far-better-than-it-used-to-be adaware, and now I use the microsoft beta one because it's actually really rather good (shock horror). And I hve AVG pro uptodate. So I know I'm all clean. The original problem remember came by installing a windows udpate after intalling visual studio 6 -_- If only I could turn that little clock hand back ><

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Leozack
Code: 
MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);
 
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yes, but your kernel doesn't just dissapear, and system files don't just disappear, especially after reinstalling them.

So you only use 1 adware/spyware removal utility?

You need to use at LEAST 2. I, personally, use all 3 that you mentioned.. since both adware/spybots pick things up each one does not, plus ms picks up others.

Computer/Network Technician
CCNA
 
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