XP boots OK, but safe mode BSOD 0x0A error! ??? 2

[torandson]

Hi,

XP Pro boots normally just fine. But Safe Mode = BSOD. ???

This is after "ntfs.sys" problems that crashed XP which I have been troubleshooting and trying to repair.

Anyone have any clues?

Synopsis:

After a motherboard powerdown during XP installation formatting which left the NTFS partitioned drive(s) in a state from which simple reformatting was ineffective, I zeroed the system drive with Seatools, repartitioned, reformatted FAT32 and reinstalled XP (unattended install with nVidia nForce3 SATA RAID drivers slipstreamed) onto IDE 0 E:\ = FAT32, etc. After that I succesfully installed a ton of pro audio applications on G:\Program Files (FAT32). When I went to group copy eight 1.9 GB audio sample files from the RAID 0 array (NTFS, not previously corrupted, no history of errors) to IDE 1 L:\ (NTFS) (corrupted during previous XP install and reformatted, but not completely zeroed first as the system drive was) I got a BSOD with a 0x50 ntfs.sys error again.

Disconnecting IDE 1 allowed me to boot into XP, but safe mode still BSOD'd. Paragon Drive Backup's linux-on-a-CD allowed me to rename the ntfs.sys file, and then XP booted with the corrupt drive attached so I could use the DVD burner to get the OS images off of its FAT32 partition.

Reformatted the IDE 1 NTFS partitions. Restored ntfs.sys.

But again, reformatting was ineffective, kept getting "XP wants to check one or more of your drives" messages on bootup and got another "ntfs.sys" BSOD error when I tried to copy a 5MB folder onto one of the newly reformatted IDE 1 NTFS partitions.

Wouldn't boot XP normal or safe again.
(I assume that the safe mode BSOD is related to the ntfs.sys problem, but...?)

So I zeroed IDE 1 (Seagate 200GB takes all night and half a day) and repartitioned/reformatted (using the procedure that had successfully restored the system drive on the previous goaround).

So now, I can boot into XP pro just fine and see all the drives/partitons in Windows Explorer, though I'm hesitant to do too much till I find the source of the problem. I no longer get the "Windows wants to check some of your drives" message on bootup. But the strange thing is, I cannot boot into Safe Mode. Safe Mode still gives me a 0x0A BSOD.

Anyone have any ideas? Is there some registry entry or log entry that safe mode is preoccupied with while the full OS can see around it? Or is there still some (possibly other) root problem cause lurking in there somewhere that the normal mode OS can't see? Somehow, this combination doesn't make sense to me.

When in the XP desktop environment I've saved all the data to DVD using the Nero software that came with the drive. Works OK. I can poke around here and there with no problems, run regedit, use the control panel, etc. but I'm not going to attempt that fateful file copy again till I try some other things. How can this be? Windows is happy to boot normally, but it absolutely will not boot into safe mode!

Anyone have any insights and/or suggestions?

I have a documented history of the problem and detailed system specs, minidump, etc. but I'll hold on that unless it's requested. Possibly relevant, though, is: 1GB RAM (memtest86 says it's OK), "Pagefile" = 50 MB on E:\ (5.5GB) plus 1.5 GB on D:\ (2GB) partition; and "Documents and Settings" on F:\ (6GB).

--torandson

 

[torandson]

aquias,
You're a genius! VGA mode takes me to the desktop! I would never have thought to just poke around at the options for fear of breaking something further.
The message that I get now, after logging in, is "WARNING. The ATI Control Panel failed to initialize because no ATI driver is installed, or ATI driver is not working properly. The ATI Control Panel will now exit."
OK. I'm going to click on "OK" and hope I don't see smoke.
No smoke. Desktop looks OK. What do I do next?
I'm going to power down till further notice. I don't want to break anything that isn't already broken.
Very Many Thanks! We're getting somewhere!
--torandson

 

[bcastner]

Upgrade the video driver.
The control panel is complaining the driver did not load, which is of course true.

But if it was part of the 0x0A error, which seems likely, a driver download and upgrade at this point seems advised.

 

[torandson]

bcastner,
Right. Will do. BTW, if I need to continue debugging this, (since, after all, the system boots OK in normal mode, so booting OK in VGA mode is a clue but not yet out of the woods, remember, even command line safe mode BSODs), before I follow the suggestion about using msconfig to disable all unneccessary startup programs/services, can you please tell me what programs/services I should NOT disable in msconfig? I don't know which of these are core essential, and which are amenable to disabling for troubleshooting.
--torandson

 

[bcastner]

310353 - How to Perform a Clean Boot in Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310353

316434 - HOW TO: Perform Advanced Clean-Boot Troubleshooting in Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;316434

310560 - How to Troubleshoot By Using the Msconfig Utility in Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310560

 

[torandson]

bcastner,
Thanks, I'll follow those links and go to the next step here.

UPDATE:

From the site linked to from Sapphire (ATI) I downloaded: Driver, ATI Catalyst, ATI Catalyst Control Panel and HydraVision zip files, unzipped them put them on a CD and moved them to the system in question where I installed the first three in that order, rebooting for each setup.

The first two installed/updated without incident.
After the system rebooted from the ATI Catalyst Control Panel setup, however, I got the following error message:

"cli.exe - Application error. The application failed to initialize properly. (0xc0000135) Click on OK to terminate the application."

After clicking on "OK" I got the same dialoge box with the filename in uppercase letters this time: "CLI.exe - Application error. etc."

Might I have two different files with the same name here?

I see that the driver was updated
from: 8/3/2004 version 6.14.10.6467
to: 11/24/2004 version 6.14.10.6497

Not a big change, but something. And the ATI icon in the system tray is gone, replaced by a shortcut on the desktop, but when I click on it I get an error message rather than the pop-up menu I used to get from the icon on the systray.

I don't know if I'm tracking the problem down to its source, or just making matters worse. Hope says the former. Experience says its a mixture of both.

Any further insights will be greatly appreciated. I'm taking this one step at a time because I'd rather the system sat here idle till I figure out what the root of the problem is than simply reinstall everyting and have the system crash in the middle of something important.

BTW mobo is an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum with an AMD 3500+ 90nm CPU if that's any help. Video card is Radeon 9600 SE.

OH! ATI control panel (I can still view it) says that the video adapter is in PCI bus 1, device 0, function 0???

But it's an AGP card. What's it doing showing up in a PCI
slot???

I apologize for the lengthy posts and all the questions. This problem (and my ignorance) do invite them, though.

--torandson

 

[torandson]

bcastner,
UPDATE:
I followed the clean boot procedure on your linked page:
With all services disabled, in normal mode there is no error message on the screen, but in safe mode, same BSOD.
--torandson

 

[bcastner]

That means that your issue is not a startup entry, or a non-Microsoft service entry.

So we focus again on drivers for hardware, having ruled out the above.

 

[torandson]

bcastner,

UPDATE: PROGRESS!! :-D
Running verify gave me a list of unsigned drivers.

>>>RENAMING "incdrec.sys" to "incdrec.old" ELIMINATED THE SAFE MODE BSOD!!!<<<

incdrec.sys version is 4.2.15.1 dated 7/12/2004

The above driver file from the SONY DRU-710A OEM Nero 6 installer overwrote the incdrec.sys from the Artec COMBO OEM Nero 6 installer (which I had installed first, I have both drives on my system). The Artec-supplied file is version 4.1.0.0 dated 12/5/0.

I bought the retail Nero 6 Ultra but have not yet installed it. The retail CD contains incdrec.sys v 4.2.14.0 dated 6/22/04 (i.e. in-between the other two drivers, just before the known faulty one).

I have sent an email to Nero tech support describing the problem and asking advice, but expect to wait 3 - 8 days before getting a reply.

Q. If I uninstall the OEM Nero software and install the retail version, would you expect my drives to be supported and the problem to vanish? (Yes, really only one way to find out, but I'd like a second opinion before actually throwing the switch.) Also, I assume I'll have to use the add/remove programs feature of XP since there is no Nero Uninstaller in the start menu. Nero instructions with the retail product say to put the installation CD in the drive to uninstall the software??? Will that work with the OEM versions? I installed two. Will I need to uninstall both in reverse order, or only the most-recently installed OEM version? I doubt that simply installing the retail version will do the job, since its incdrec.sys driver file is older than the one currently on the system (or will leaving it renamed make that a moot point?)

Then I have to deal with the new problem I created by updating my video drivers.

Many thanks for your invaluable advice!

-torandson

 

[bcastner]

Usually, Nero can be installed right over the top of an older version. I would try that first. There is no reason that your drives should not be supported in the retail product.

The driver you have had issues with supports the InCd feature, an effort to support UDF style access to the CD drives. This feature allows the drives to act more like a big floppy disk. It is a problematic feature. If you do not need it, do not install it if given the choice during the update.

 

[torandson]

Hi,
Now that I know what caused the safe mode BSOD (and that it was likely unrelated to the ntfs.sys BSOD which was evidently caused by a filesystem corrupted by a previous motherboard shutdown), I've decided to roll the system back to a previous state and re-install applications. I'll update the video driver only and keep the ATI Control Panel that came with the card and I won't install the two OEM versions of Nero that came with the optical drives. Before I do so, I'm going to see if the retail version of incdrec.sys gets past the safe mode boot screen. If not, then I'll pass on InCD when I install the retail version of Nero.
Once again, thanks for all your help.
--torandson