Windows 2000 Server on NT 4.0 Server Network ? 1

[wisdomwarrior23]

I would like to replace a Windows NT 4.0 Server PDC with a Windows 2000 Server without adding active directory. There are 10 computers on the network and they only use the server primarily as a Print Server, Wins, DHCP, DNS. They don't really have home directories or any other mappings. its a very simple setup. Is this doable without enabling Active Directory on the Win2k Server? Would I run into any problems.

 

[baycog1]

Since you have an existing Win NT 4.0 PDC, i see no reason why you will not want to enjoy including ADS for win 2000 in your upgrade.From your statement the Win NT 40 PDC is prabably the authenticating server on your network. If you want to keep authenticating users with the same server after upgrading,you will need to include ADS to publish your users objects in the directory. Making the same server a print server is also possible after ADS configuration.

 

[hewissa]

You need an NT PDC in this situatation. Installing a 2000 to replace the PDC, without installing AD would not work.

You would need to promote a BDC to PDC. Install the 2000 machine as a Member server then run the DHCP,DNS,Wins services off the 2K server.

Otherwise, you'll need to upgrade the PDC to 2K, join the New 2K machine as a DC, move roles and services to the new DC, then demote the Old DC (NT PDC) and remove it from your network.

Or, create a new domain using the 2K server and migrate.....


Hewissa

MCSE, CCNA, CIW

 

[wisdomwarrior23]

So your saying if I wanted to do this, I can't have a Windows 2k Server running Active Directory and an NT 4.0 PDC on the same network right, unless I create a new domain? Would that new domain be able to talk to my NT 4.0 Domains which are present in other branch offices we are connected to? The office I want to do this in is very small 10 users, can't I just put up a Win2k member server setup the printers share them out, add accounts for everyone on the server, and then add services DHCP, DNS. The server should still be able to talk to my NT boxes right? I think AD is a little too much for this office, although I know its great to have. Let me know if I'm on the wrong path.

 

[hewissa]

I am saying that you can't have an NT PDC and a 2K DC co-existing in the same domain. You can, however, join the 2K machine to the NT domain as a member server and let it run your DHCP,DNS, WINS, Printers and such. Not much work involved in doin that.

You can create a seperate 2K domain for the 10 clients, and then make 1 way explicit trusts between your NT Domains and the 2K domains...more work.

Is it that you want to retire the current PDC or just off load some of the work?

Hewissa

MCSE, CCNA, CIW

 

[GlenJohnson]

hewissa is correct in that you can't have a PDC and W2K server on the same domain. You don't mention what you have for clients. A few more details would help. Good luck.

Glen A. Johnson
Johnson Computer Consulting
MCP W2K



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[wisdomwarrior23]

Yeah the Operations manager WOULD like to upgrade to Windows 2000 Server but he doesn't want to get involved with running active directory services for some reason, probably because of his knowledge of it. I have a little more knowledge of AD but I wasn't positive if you could mix the NT PDC with the 2k DC, but now I understand. I would like to retire the NT domain, there is just one PDC on our domain no BDC's, nothing else. I'm just looking at the level of use this office has for the server and just a plain old 2k Server would do them perfectly. I'll look at upgrading the whole thing to Win2k Server including Active Directory because all the other NT servers are on another Domain. Thanks for the tips you guys.

 

[AJP69]

Eventually everyone is forced to upgrade to the latest offerings from M$. Some are dragged kicking and screaming, while others leap before others dare.

W2k is a grown up OS, it offers many new facilites/services such as AD, but these require considerable planning and management.

There are deployment, planning and operations guides available from MS.

Even on an NT4 network, no BDC is a bit dangerous as you risk losing everything, but for 10 users it is hard to justify the cost so you have to weigh up downtime vs productivity etc.

Why does your Ops manager want to upgrade, what extra functionality is he looking for?

I would suggest that you get him to get the W2k MCSE certification before you agree to implement AD.

Of course there is nothing that is forcing you to have a domain at all (although it is a bit limiting). You can install a W2k server in a workgroup as a standalone server and use the local account policy of that server to manage these users as peers. You could install printers, file shares and with terminal services implemented, install client apps so that people can dial into the server from home.

With no backup server, you will need a good backup system and tested disaster recovery plan.

I always make my servers dual boot with a duplicate image of W2kServer, so in the event of a software failure you can at least get the server back up quickly.

Hope this helps

AJ














Eventually everyone is forced to upgrade to the latest offerings from M$. Some are dragged kicking and screaming, while others leap before others dare.

W2k is a grown up OS, it offers many new facilites/services such as AD, but these require considerable planning and management.

There are deployment, planning and operations guides available from MS.

Even on an NT4 network, no BDC is a bit dangerous as you risk losing everything, but for 10 users it is hard to justify the cost so you have to weigh up downtime vs productivity etc.

Why does your Ops manager want to upgrade, what extra functionality is he looking for?

I would suggest that you get him to get the W2k MCSE certification before you agree to implement AD.

Of course there is nothing that is forcing you to have a domain at all (although it is a bit limiting). You can install a W2k server in a workgroup as a standalone server and use the local account policy of that server to manage these users. You could install printers, file shares and with terminal services implemented, install client apps so that people can dial into the server from home.

I always make my servers dual boot with a duplicate image of W2kServer, so in the event of a software failure you can at least get the server back up quickly.

Hope this helps

AJ

 

[wisdomwarrior23]

Yeah thanks for the information AJ, I think it may be suited for us to keep the NT Domain intact for a while, but I think I would like to upgrade the clients machines to Win2k first, I would like to get that going right away. I think the benefits I'm looking for are mostly at the client level, smoother operation, better support for network printing, easier to manage, better support for software and drivers.

 

[BWilson77080]

without a win2000 dc in place its all goingto be hard to manage as it will all need to be done on the client workstation locally as far as management and security

cant use GPOs or anything

 

[AJP69]

If you are going to upgrade the clients, I suggest you go for XP, once you get rid of the teletubbies desktop it is the same OS. Make a standard build on a second primary partition, the users do not even have to know it is there until you are ready you roll it out. Try it out on a few users then when you have a build you can live with, ghost it and put it on every machine.

You can keep the existing OS for a while and zap it when appropriate. Like my servers, I have dual boot workstations, the second partition is for use in the event of failure.

I also keep a ghost image of the actual final workstation build on a hidden partition just in case anything goes wrong with the backup.

If you do decide to partition you can create a 100mb local data partition for use when the lan is down, otherwise have all their data point to the lan. So your spec should be:

WinSYS Primary Active Mapped to C
WinBKP Primary Mapped to E
DATA Logical Mapped to D
Pagefile Mapped to P
ITBACKUP Not Mapped
CD Writer Mapped to W
CD Mapped to X

The pagefile partition saves space on the disk as both windows versions share the space, these also keeps down the size of the ghost images.

Even without the DC's of W2k you can achieve some control with Policy manager and some clever customisation of profiles. This can include mapped drives, printers and consistent desktop and can be locked down by making it mandatory.

You can also edit registry entries when certain fields to not support things like %username%.

Hope this helps

AJ

 

[MSClusterGuy]

There is a 360 day eval of 2K3 availsble free from M$
I would take the advantage of using it, and budget for the lisencing over the next year

Running 2k/2k3 Server = Active directory and DNS is a must, the 2K3 server is stable, More secure than 2K and for free right now, it may be your best option.