What is the problem with ATI? 2

[denzilla]

I'm using an ATI radeon 7500 64meg AGP card. Over the last few days, I've been getting more and more angry with ATI's cards and their customer support. Over the last couple of months, I've downloaded 2 versions of their almighty catalyst drivers. These drivers are supposed to be so stable with WinXP. Lets see... first set of drivers caused my screen to have a sidespin problem when running games. Second set.... kept getting message that windows was unable to open such and such file on bootup. Browsing the threads at this great site seem to indicate that people with ATI cards have far more problems than those who use the Nvidia line. I've e-mailed ATI customer sevice and all I ever get is a stupid link to their Faq pages that tell you nothing and leave you with more confused than when you started. Am I the only one here that has these problems? I have driven myself mad with troubleshooting, re-installing,e-mailing, checking and rechecking. I may not be the most intelligent PC user in the world but I know enough that I should not have these kinds of problems.

Anyone else care to vent?

 

[gargouille]

You'd be better served, perhaps, by telling us more about your system...the big thing is to not give up. Help us get our hands around this monster and choke the living s__t out of it!
There may be issues with the other hardware you have...

As far as support...pretty much a standard rule is that the company sells the product and it's up to US to make it work.
The users are the ones who sort out bugs, fixes, facts and sift thru the bs to get the nuts and bolts of making it work.

So, tell us some more, and let's get this working!

 

[cdogg]

denzilla,
Have you tried removing the drivers, then reinstalling? What is the exact version of the ones you're talking about?

Historically, ATI hasn't been consistent with it's driver reliability (especially in NT operating systems). If it's any consolation, the new ATI 9000 and 9700 Pro are both slated to have undergone extensive testing before their release. Out of all the reviews I've read, I haven't seen one driver issue mentioned. Perhaps ATI is on the rebound?

-- perhaps I just have high hopes!! LOL
~cdogg

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
- A. Einstein

 

[gargouille]

Cdog:
Like your sig...another I've seen similar is
"Originality is nothing more than undetected plagiarism."
J.S. Bach

 

[denzilla]

Ok guys here is my setup:

P3 1.2Ghz 512 meg SDRAM Pc133
WinXp Home build 2600
Radeon 7500 AGPx4 64megDDR
Asus motherboard model TUSL2-C
with onboard sound.
Sampo 15" CRT monitor

ATI Drivers tried:

Catalyst 2.2 and 2.3

version 2.2 problems:

After installing everything looks to be fine. Upon firing up any game in full screen (this also happens using 3Dmark) both sides of the screen curve inward around the edges giving an oval look. If I return to windows the screen is back to normal.

version 2.3 problems:

Installation of the display driver has no problems and the PC works fine until I install the ATI control Panel that comes seperate from the display drivers. After controlpanel installation and reboot, error message pops up saying could not open a file in the system 32 folder. I wish I could tell you what the file name is but I uninstalled the new driver after to installation attempts.

I always uninstall the previous drivers before installing the new ones. The only drivers that appaer to work normally are the one that came with the card and the updated set I got from running Windows update. I believe they are version 6.13.10.6071.

The main issue I'm having graphic jerking issues with all my PC games since the upgrade to XP. I know the problem is Xp makes all full screen games run at 60HZ. What frustrates me is I downloaded the program called "refresh force" that was supposed to take all my troubles away. Sadly, XP laughed at the program saying "Never will I let you run a game smoothly again! hah-hee-haaa" Microsoft sorta addressed this issue in SP1 which creates another problem for me. SP1 causes my PC to stop responding during a restart! I tried all the troubleshoots mentioned in the refresh force text doc to no avail. Downloaded and installed SP1 2 times hoping the glich was a fluke with the same result.

All the problems came about when I installed XP on my system. At first everything was hunky dory and I once again liked Bill. Then a few days went by noticed Easy CD creator 5 wasn't working right. Downloaded update for that program and it locked out the ability to change my burn speed and said I could burn at 64x WTF!!! Got rid of Easy CD creator and went to Nero 5. Paid fifty bucks to find out it wasn't going to work either. Finally just started to use the burning program that came with XP. Somewhat annoyed about it but got over it and moved on. Ugh... I've angered myself just talking about this stuff. Before I got into PCs a year ago, I had a playstation 2, dreamcast and a horde of other gaming hardware that worked everytime I powered up. Now I have a PC that works good doing everything I don't want to use it for!!! Thanks to everyone who has lended an ear to my troubles.

 

[gargouille]

A question or two while I go to groups.google and ogle fixes for ya' (I think we can beat this lipsticked pig)

Do you turn off vsync?

What screen res and refresh rate are you running?

What games do you run? (that's mostly coz I wanta' know the cool ones...but also there are tweaks that may help in each case that can be done inside the games config)

(I guess SP1 is outta' the question...the jury's still out on that one anyway and probably wouldn't help your problem)
M$ does have SUPPOSED fixes for burning problems...

Have you run dxdiag at start run?
(If you find a problem with anything...1st disable and then reenable it in the dxdiag dialog box.)

One other thing that might help...is to download SiSandra freebie and see what it sez. It also will help you maximize your system.

Have you tried just letting XP do whatever drivers it decides on without installing any? I'd be tempted to try that, too.

Have you tried running the games in XP compatibility mode?

Is the higher AGP rate enabled in the BIOS?

Let us know if anything helps...

 

[denzilla]

gargouille,

Got v-sync on. tried jacking anti-aliasing and anthroscopic filtering to max levels with no result. I run 800x600 16-bit color. Medal of Honor AA was set to 640x480 within the game. changed it to match desktop resolution. Seemed to make problem less noticable but still there.

Ran direct x diagnostics. All systems go!
AGP setting in bios is maxed at 4x which is the speed of the card. Card memory is 64meg and the AGP aperture is set to 64meg.

Speed of games is not an issue. For my setup they smoke! I Medal of Honor is designed for XP so compatabilty isn't an issue here. All my other games (barring the ones that won't work on XP even in compatabilty mode) run on MAME. Problems with these games are minor but come up occasionally.

 

[denzilla]

Forgot to mention garg that I downloaded the cd burning patch and it didn't help either. I disabled the built in burning program. Problem still remains. After burning a CD my system is very clunky and non responsive. It gets better after a while but problem occurs if I use any burning program other than what came with XP. I should not have a system resource problem as hardly anything is on it.

Norton System works 2002 (stripped down to anti-virus and windoctor)
OS itself
Microsoft Works 7
Webshots desktop
MAME arcade emulator
Medal of Honor AA
Starlancer

 

[gargouille]

Well, from what I'm reading, vsync should be off...not from personal experience...but from what I'm reading. FWIW.
Costs nothing...mebbe worth nothing!

As for the software...Norton...just my personal preference...too bloated...too intrusive. (in the same category as Real Player anyversion)

AVG from Grisoft has served me well AV-wise for several years now...and it's free and doesn't use a lot of resources. Not seamless updating...but I remind myself to check now and again...and it works fine.
I've installed it on upwards of 150 computers...at least.

Windoctor is an almighty known resource hog. NOT on my system. I prefer Drive Image and have an extra 40 Gb HD (older, slower one from another system) to back up.
I'm also gonna' install another WD1000JB and use the raid connectors on my MS-6380 motherboard...once I get this pile of computers that's gathered 'round here patched/purtied up/purring. That list is down to just 2.

Dunno' about Webshots...but I do know that any pic on the desktop (yeah, I use them to spruce things up, too) is a hit on resources...

What's forming here (maybe a brain fart LOL) is an inkling that a person could make another user profile that used desktop settings that favored performance rather than appearance (there are so da_n many tweaks, aren't there?)
and use that for gaming. Then just switch to that one when you're going for guns...

Noticed you over at XP group trying to download DX update.

Another thought I'm having (not what you want to hear I know) is a format/reinstall.

Whatabout Sisandra?

 

[cdogg]

Denzilla,
This is a very important question:
"Did you install XP on top of Win98, or did you format the drive first and do a clean install?"

It's starting to sound like you're having problems that stem from an upgrade, not a clean install. Also, since you have been through so many "patch/service pack" installations followed by uninstallations, I'm beginning to wonder if you have some severe registry corruption. Even if you have started from a clean install, now might be a good time to consider starting over to save you some hassle.

Your hardware config seems legit and shouldn't have this much trouble. First, it might be best to uninstall all unnecessary software (Norton, Roxio, Nero, RealPlayer, games, etc). Then I would download a program like RegClean 4.1a to clear the registry from as many broken links as possible. After doing so, first install the latest motherboard drivers followed by SP1 again for XP. Bottom line is that we need to get it to work. If it still won't work after going through all that, then heavily consider the option of a clean install...
~cdogg

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
- A. Einstein

 

[denzilla]

Gargouille,

Tried turning the v-sync off with no improvement. I always read that v-sync were to eliminate the problems I got. Other modes like z-biffer are said to help as well. Still none of these have made a dent in the gfx on or off. Like I said Norton program has been stripped down to its skeleton. Cleansweep was the most intrusive component in my opinion. Antivirus and the one button checkup (has windoctor) are the only 2 programs in there. Heck, I didn't even install speeddisk or diskdoctor!



Cdogg,

My XP installations have always been clean. When I went from Win98SE I reformatted the drive, then installed XP. I stuck with the Fat32 partition each time. Number 2 installation was the result of downloading SP1. Completely earased and reloaded everything that time too. Here is a complete list of software as I forgot a few things:

MSN internet
Acrobat reader
MAME
Norton system works
MGI photo suite
Microsoft works
romcenter 2.50 (used with MAME emulator)
Ati display drivers without the xtras (like ati video,cd,etc)
Hp printer software
Webshots
I.E. SP1
other XP critical updates and hot fixes
Medal of honor AA
Starlancer
No burning software except built in XP program

Please note that these problems were present before the installation of much of this software. I'm running my PC in classic mode with only a couple of options turned on. I can activate almost all these programs (games not included) and not even reach 20%cpu usage.

 

[gargouille]

One never knows the level of expertise of a poster (hell we can never really know our own level of expertise until we get up against problems like this one)...but it looks like you're trying the right things...and I can empathize with the frustration level when things don't go the way they should.
We're gonna' assume AV was turned off when doing installs...you seem thorough enough to have thought of this.
My next question is...where did the video card come from?
(not an OEM?)
If it came from a reputable dealer they should allow you to return the card, especially in exchange for another. (mebbe different brand?)

Is this possible?

 

[denzilla]

Thanks for you sypmpathy garg. Yea, Av was turned off during all installation attempts. Antivirus is the last program I install when setting up any PC. I bought the card from Best Buy back in july. Unfortunately too much time has gone buy for me to return it. I was completely satisfied with the card before the move to XP. I guess I should've done more research on the O.S. before making the jump. I've been seriously considering reverting back or at least entertaining the option of a dual boot setup. I think I'm going to rough it till direct x 9 and a new set of gfx drivers come out before I make any major changes. Nvidia all the way next time though!! Thanks for everyones help in this matter.

 

[gargouille]

The last thing I'd try is to stroll into Best Buy and see if their techs can give you any hints...the frontline folks are hard to beat "where the rubber meets the road".

Gamers newsgroups are interesting...if you can sort thru peeing contests/ego/I-know-something-you-don't-know threads. (thankfully, not a concern 'round here)

Do you do lan parties? (prolly not, no nic mentioned) Lots of those guys are whizzes, too.

(How do you stand a 15" monitor? LOL)

 

[denzilla]

Here in my location in the boonies, not many people have a PC. Lan gaming is out of the question. I would like to try it sometime though. the monitor was a freebie from work. hoping to upgrade that around X-mas. I was thinking of going flat panel but from what I've read, they aren't the best monitor for gaming. Can you recommend a good monitor?

 

[gargouille]

I'm partial to Sony's...just because I've had 6 or 7 that worked fine...my present one is an older VX900T that came on a Gateway.
The last 1 I got before I started building my own systems...this one is on it's 3rd hardware setup. It pops and snaps once in awhile...but I'll prolly keep it 'til it craps out altogether.
I do cad so I prefer at least a 19"...my next will probably be a 21".
I, too, would like to have a flat panel but they need to come down some more before I go that way. You can buy a quality LARGE CRT display for a lot less.
An optometrist schoolmate of mine has 4 21" hooked up to a monster setup with something like 9 hard drives...mix of SCSI and IDE.
His kids are raised and money is obviously not a concern.

A manufacturing process needs to be in the millions of produced items before production costs come down to where they're making it for 30 dollars (and only charging us $350)! They're not there yet with flat panels.

Funny how when conversing with others on ng's you get impressions...I was guessing you were a teenager that still lived at home...and still were in school.

(NOT MEANT TO INVOKE REPLY)

Just think it's funny.
I'm an old fart in denial...SO FAR I have my body fooled into believing it.

 

[denzilla]

I do give that teenager impression alot. Actually, I'm a 28 year old fogey doing maintence work for a youth organization. When I'm not blowing AC lines or replacing toilets, I mess with videogames and PCs. Always liked working with electronics, but can never find the motivation to make a career out of it. Its not as fun doing something you like for a living rather than for fun. Anyway, thanks for the monitor advice.

 

[gargouille]

denzilla:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q318023&

This came up today in a search for others' problems...thought it MIGHT help you

 

[KevinAr18]

"Over the last couple of months, I've downloaded 2 versions of their almighty catalyst drivers. These drivers are supposed to be so stable with WinXP."

I thought I remember reading that the Radeon 9700 drivers are different from the older ATI cards, but I could be wrong.

 

[denzilla]

Hello guys! Well the problem is fixed. I decided to reformat/reload my HDD yesterday. Problem is gone now. Thanks for all your help.