Web site contracts question 1

[grez]

Hi! My question is this: what is the best way to communicate that "we the web designers" will design the site, and not the customer? Case in point: contracted for a site, we put together what I feel is an awesome piece, with their colors, etc, but they had something else in mind. With that, they go on to develop the site themselves, for us to replicate, in powerpoint, and, move this, change that. So with that, what is the best way to say "we design it"...within customer parameters, yes, but, not having them design it in something else and us try to replicate. My thoughts are to word a contract stating that we will offer up to 3 solutions for a layout, if you don't like it, thanks anyway.

Any ideas on this particular subject would be great. Thanks in advance!

 

[trollacious]

Not a good way to keep customers. If they want a certain design, they pay you to do it. The golden rule is that whoever has the gold makes the rules. If you want their money, give them what THEY want. The bottom line is that the customer isn't always right, but they're always the customer and that's where the money comes to stay in business. I recommend against a lot of things, but if someone insists on something I've recommended against and they understand that, I design what they ask for to the best of the limits built into web design.

Had one client who insisted on a movie-type presentation with her site. She didn't want to pay for anything more than a few static pictures, though. That's a different story. The contract should state what you will provide, what the design will be IN DETAIL, what the approximate time will be, what the cost will be (plus a possible percentage for going over the time estimated). Get them to sign on the dotted line and you have a contract. Get a deposit (usually around 50%) and show them fairly complete samples of what you're doing.

If I were to come to you to put together a web site that I wanted, and you insisted on doing what YOU wanted, and you expected me to pay for that, I'd go somewhere else and make sure anyone I knew who wanted web design done knew that you would do what YOU wanted rather than what they wanted.

Of course, there are people who want things that just aren't feasible on the Internet, like movie presentations that will take multi-megs of space that anyone with a bad 56K connection can see without a problem. Telling someone that their vision for their website won't practically work for certain segments of viewers is one thing. Telling them you won't do it if they're willing to pay the money is another thing.

If it's a case of nitpicking and revising things over and over, the contract needs to spell out in detail what the design will be. If they want certain colors, they need to pick RGB or Pantone numbers for you to use, and then pay extra if they decide something different.

One client at a place where I worked stated that they wanted a graphic of a rotating car on the main page. That provided, they decided they wanted something more "sporty", but in 2 months refused to give more detail. An SUV was added, and further complaints came in, but still no detail of what make or model of a car they wanted. They knew what they DIDN'T want, but not what they DID want. Dealing with that company changed the way contracts were written after that.

But the bottom line is that you're hired to provide a product to the customer specs. If you can't do it, say so. If you WON'T do it, then you're cutting your own throat.

Lee

 

[grez]

Hi Lee,

Agreed on the golden rule, maybe just venting more or less. Nitpicking seems to be the problem, so yes, I'll need to specify the contract deeper for this. So, the next question is, how do you spell out in detail what the design will be? I have an interview sheet (acutally 5 pages) that covers all possible colors, yada, yada, but the actual layout....that's what I can't seem to tackle in the contract. For example, if someone gave you a PPT presentation with the site itself (and yes, this sounds good in the beginning...) and then all the "move this a bit here, move this a bit there" because we look at the PPT, see that it matches what the person wants, but they want "X" moved over 1/16th of an inch, this one font .5 bigger....know what I mean? Just trying to avoid a whole mess of back and forth time wasting practices. It was done to the point where he should have designed it himself. I hope this all makes sense. Good learning experience with the project here....thanks for your input!
Any thoughts on this post would be great.

 

[trollacious]

Explain that different resolutions in different browsers will change all the little details anyway, and there's no way to create a site that is identical for all web browsers that will download the page. A 15" monitor will show a completely different page than a 17", 19", or 21" one, and if the resolutions are different (and who uses the larger monitors without changing resolution?) it'll really change things. But you can't control what viewers have their browsers set for, and they have to realize the site isn't going to look the same to everyone. Try changing the resolution on the screen for them when you get a page done so they can see what it will look like at different resolutions. Moving something a small amount or changing a fractional point font size will be insignificant because of the variety of screen sizes and resolutions.

I worked with some people like you wrote about when I was doing computerized embroidery design (back in DOS days) and the program only displayed 16 colors. If a design had more than that, the program started with color #1 again you just had to imagine those extra colors. That really confused some of the less imaginative minds who wanted complex designs with all sorts of extra colors.

Demand specific font sizes and color numbers or include wording you'll do your best to interpret what they give you and any changes will be extra. If you can disassemble the PPT presentation and explain that there will be an extra charge for the time it takes to do that, that could take care of some of the details. Make sure you add a "20% over" clause in the contract, where they automatically authorize you to go 20% over in time without getting their specific permission and charge them accordingly.

An old boss once used the analogy that if you hired a painter to paint your house blue, but didn't give him the exact color code for the blue, if he finished the job and you didn't like it, he'd gladly repaint it as many times and as many shades of blue as you wanted AT YOUR EXPENSE.

I don't know if any of these suggestions will help the frustration or not. If all the little detail changes are tied to money out of their pocket, you'll either make up for your frustrations with them financially, or they'll back off significantly because of the cost.

Lee

 

[grez]

Hi again Lee!

That clears some "stuff" up for me. The paragraph you use here to explain about font sizes, disassembling PPTs, 20% over, etc is terrific! That just opened my mind up to some good points to place into a contract. I can't thank you enough Lee for your time and input! Everything is a learning experience! Just hadn't run into soemthing this deep yet. Thanks a bunch!

 

[trollacious]

You can change whatever a customer wants changed, as long as they are willing to pay the cost to have that done. Describe distinctly what you will do for your price, put it in writing, get their signature, give them a copy, and then make it clear that anything outside of what's in writing will cost more. Emphasize that everything in writing is to protect THEM so they have a legal recourse if you fail to live up to the contract. But write it so you're protected, too, if they get silly like you described.

Lee

 

[pixl8r]

I don't know if this addition will help at all but I actually limit the number of revisions the client is allowed to make without incurring extra charges to one per phase of development.

The only exception I have to that is the initial design itself. The customer is allowed up to three designs (depending on contract level) before incurring any extra expense. So that's twice they can tell me they hate it and I start all over. Once the customer signs off on this design they are committed to those colors, that look, etc...

Once the design has been settled and I build the site they are allowed one set of changes. (color changes would be an extra charge at this point) Allowable changes would be change/add content areas to the web site, content changes.

After those changes are complete they are allowed another revision which for me essentially only allows minor content changes.

Now that said if we get to the last phase and have something that they just aren't happy with I will do my best to fix it (without extra charges).

The idea here is that you have it in your contract for the nitpickers (like your client) so that you can charge for every minute of extra time they require. Customers have a funny way of altering which nits they are picking when they are being charged for each one.

Hope that is worth something to you.

Wow JT that almost looked like you knew what you were doing!

 

[Kjonnnn]

I would think the best way to design for a customer would be to first find out what they want, and their ideas, how they want it look, AND how they want it to be PERCEIVED by those viewing it. (e.g. a lawyer firm would not like a whimsical looking site, even though the site is designed well).

THEN, you as the expert, would try to fit their ideas and desires within the framework of good web design, aesthecally, practically and functionally speaking that works for them.

 

[trollacious]

Unfortunately, a LOT of people have no idea what they want, and only get ideas after they see something concrete. I can't tell you how many clients I've worked with who could only think of changes after they saw something that had been created. Descriptions like "a nice shade of blue", "a sporty vehicle", "some pretty buttons", etc., are about all some people can come up with in their imagination, but they are extremely nitpicking about the details when they see something. I worked with one guy who was totally anal about colors, but had to see each of them before he could decide what he wanted. Of course, his monitor was set up with a different brightness and shade than mine, so it looked different on his computer, which threw a monkey wrench into everything.

I did some work for another woman who took over half an hour to decide if she wanted her name put in one spot on the page or another, and this didn't include time to look at different fonts.

It's a nice fantasy that clients who want web sites have ideas for what they want them to look like, and have all the details down pat, but in real life it often doesn't turn out that way.

Lee

 

[pixl8r]

Even so all design does start with an interview of the customer to determine their needs even if they can't articulate them (which is usually the case).

I also ask them to be prepared with some web sites that they like and dislike and try to get them to tell me why.

Wow JT that almost looked like you knew what you were doing!

 

[TheOfficeSlave]

Hey guys,

great discussion, but here is another very touchy subject. what if you are on the "flip side"

Situation: a company has verbally stated to pay a developer so much money for a program, 1/3 front, 1/3 beta, and 1/3 at complete....now how does the company protect the intellectual property right for what that program is to become, if for instance, its a very profitable idea if marketed correctly.......??????

what keeps the developer from taking the idea and selling it or further developing it and competeing with the company on its own idea?????

 

[trollacious]

If you pay for the site, then copyright laws protect your intellectual property. The contract should include what is yours from the website, and what library and other routines that you're not paying for (developed beforehand and used on many sites). Ask for a copy of the site on CD as soon as it's done, and a reputable developer will give it to you as soon as your bill is paid. If the site uses server-side scripting or database access, you probably won't get that or get it to work because of the way the database is installed and configured on the server. If you didn't pay the registration and setup fee for the software used, it's not yours.

As far as using components on other web sites, the Internet is no place to put something you don't want someone else using. If it's copyrighted, you have certain legal rights that way, but anyone anywhere can copy some cute feature or idea that you came up with. If you don't want it stolen, don't put it on the Internet where you can't control that.

If you have some fantastic marketing idea that you don't want stolen, just posting it online will give other people the same idea and some of them will be able to take what they see there and replicate it. Again, make it legally copyrighted or patented if you want that kind of protection.

You can't keep the ideas a web developer builds in designing one site from using them to develop other sites. Things on your site will surely be based on things that came before in developing other websites over the past decade.

If the web developer you talk to won't give you the site on disk, then find someone else who will. There are a lot of money-hungry wannabe web site sales companies that are ripoff artists and will give you minimum value for maximum dollars. There are plenty of good ones who will give you far more than you're charged for, too, but they're usually not as loud and flashy as the ripoff ones.

Lee