VoIP

[dlesap]

Hello everybody

I'm wondering what is the part of VoIP in new PBXs?

Telecom world was waiting for that technology for years and now it's working fine (if correctly implemented). I can see that all customers don't want to turn to VoIP.
Some of them don't know enough about it, some other have to upgrade their Data network that is too expensive.
Some others have a bad data network design and know they will not have success with VoIP with such a network.

Many reasons can explain that the VoIP success is not meeting our expectations.

Give your feedback about it, the part of full IP PBX, the part of hybrid PBX, the part of "I just want to test VoIP"

Here in the counrty i'm working:
20% of full IP
40% of Hybrid
10% of Test VoIP
30% of non IP

 

[johnpoole]

i would say the pbx market here is a lot more just tdm.. maybe 50 percent.. i think the reluctance is the 20 foot tall stone wall between voice and data in most larger business's and in smaller, they might have a pc guy that can change ip's but could build a wan or a dial plan on a bet.. i've heard a lot of "pro's" ask how many times a year is your network down? it's usually 10 times as many reboots as your voice network.. when i hear that i seldom correct the person, the network is almost never down, one server may be down, or one router may stop sending toa default route and you can't see the dns on the dirty side of your firewall.. but the network, layer one is down if someone cuts the copper.. and layer two would be a piece of the voip switch and the sets.. your wan should be a reliable as your tdm pstn connection... i wouldn't put my ld on a single router/glass/pri connection but i have backups for every path on my tdm..

we use cisco wireless behind our 81 and we are adding desk sets to the ccm due to a dept moving to a remote location. saves money but because that is the gold plated desk, vp and above my manager will loose his job over that install. he's a good guy in spite of an avaya background, he's ccna, but he will learn from this install.. DATA geeks are way to fast to reboot.. they have to because nothing else works everytime.. so if one network is way to slow, someone's going to boot something..another thing that people should notice is the delay between the last digit and ringback tone.

all the negitives, but i am a tdm switchman.. and yes i do cisco and nortel voip.. and if a switchman sets it up, and does the number plan, and the design, and the maint.. the end user should not be able to tell it from tdm, but don't ask me to scrimp on bandwidth, or maint spares. right now we have over 40 bad wireless sets, screws fall out on viberate.. and we started ordering replacements 6 weeks ago. the hosp buy's from cisco to save money.. when they have a bad set that is on our maint contract, it's takes 2 sec for them to get a replacement.. i keep them on the shelf.

btw on Sat i have plenty of time to respond, while i watch my Braves get beat

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[johnpoole]

i would say the pbx market here is a lot more just tdm.. maybe 50 percent.. i think the reluctance is the 20 foot tall stone wall between voice and data in most larger business's and in smaller, they might have a pc guy that can change ip's but could build a wan or a dial plan on a bet.. i've heard a lot of "pro's" ask how many times a year is your network down? it's usually 10 times as many reboots as your voice network.. when i hear that i seldom correct the person, the network is almost never down, one server may be down, or one router may stop sending toa default route and you can't see the dns on the dirty side of your firewall.. but the network, layer one is down if someone cuts the copper.. and layer two would be a piece of the voip switch and the sets.. your wan should be a reliable as your tdm pstn connection... i wouldn't put my ld on a single router/glass/pri connection but i have backups for every path on my tdm..

we use cisco wireless behind our 81 and we are adding desk sets to the ccm due to a dept moving to a remote location. saves money but because that is the gold plated desk, vp and above, my manager will loose his job over that install. he's a good guy in spite of an avaya background, he's ccna, but he will learn from this install.. DATA geeks are way to fast to reboot.. they have to because nothing else works everytime.. so if one network is way to slow, someone's going to boot something..another thing that people should notice is the delay between the last digit and ringback tone.

all the negitives, but i am a tdm switchman.. and yes i do cisco and nortel voip.. and if a switchman sets it up, and does the number plan, and the design, and the maint.. the end user should not be able to tell it from tdm, but don't ask me to scrimp on bandwidth, or maint spares. right now we have over 40 bad wireless sets, screws fall out on viberate.. and we started ordering replacements 6 weeks ago. the hosp buy's from cisco to save money.. when they have a bad set that is on our maint contract, it's takes 2 sec for them to get a replacement.. i keep them on the shelf.

btw on Sat i have plenty of time to respond, while i watch my Braves get beat

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[johnpoole]

i would say the pbx market here is a lot more just tdm.. maybe 50 percent.. i think the reluctance is the 20 foot tall stone wall between voice and data in most larger business's and in smaller, they might have a pc guy that can change ip's but could build a wan or a dial plan on a bet.. i've heard a lot of "pro's" ask how many times a year is your network down? it's usually 10 times as many reboots as your voice network.. when i hear that i seldom correct the person, the network is almost never down, one server may be down, or one router may stop sending toa default route and you can't see the dns on the dirty side of your firewall.. but the network, layer one is down if someone cuts the copper.. and layer two would be a piece of the voip switch and the sets.. your wan should be a reliable as your tdm pstn connection... i wouldn't put my ld on a single router/glass/pri connection but i have backups for every path on my tdm..

we use cisco wireless behind our 81 and we are adding desk sets to the ccm due to a dept moving to a remote location. saves money but because that is the gold plated desk, vp and above my manager will loose his job over that install. he's a good guy in spite of an avaya background, he's ccna, but he will learn from this install.. DATA geeks are way to fast to reboot.. they have to because nothing else works everytime.. so if one network is way to slow, someone's going to boot something..another thing that people should notice is the delay between the last digit and ringback tone.

all the negitives, but i am a tdm switchman.. and yes i do cisco and nortel voip.. and if a switchman sets it up, and does the number plan, and the design, and the maint.. the end user should not be able to tell it from tdm, but don't ask me to scrimp on bandwidth, or maint spares. right now we have over 40 bad wireless sets, screws fall out on viberate.. and we started ordering replacements 6 weeks ago. the hosp buy's from cisco to save money.. when they have a bad set that is on our maint contract, it's takes 2 sec for them to get a replacement.. i keep them on the shelf.

btw on Sat i have plenty of time to respond, while i watch my Braves get beat

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[dlesap]

The fact is that reliable pbxs are tdm. IP is not so stable as Nortel says. SigServ may freeze, IP network fails to transmit sometimes, Voice quality is acceptable but not perfect. IP voice quality will never be the same as tdm one, IP technology rules cannot be as perfect as tdm.

People now accept to have a voice call with degrade quality, cause mobile phone use with cuts, clips, and drops are usual. The use of internet voip tools as MSN, Skype and so on have the same effect.

But in business market, depending the type of activity, it's not acceptable to have the risk of a call that may drop at any time. A correct VoIP install on a "Perfect" data network will run as acceptable as a tdm one. But converging an existing data network to VoIP is much more difficult.

The price of a VoIP system is today higher than TDM one. If we look for a long time investment, i guess it will be more cheaper: Movings much more easy, extension doesn't required material unless SS and MC capacity stay acceptable, no more additionnal cabling, ... , ...

I'm sure VoIP will grow up very quickly now. But tech guys have to be insctructed correctly and after few experience will be able to do it easily. These guys have to turn on he VoIP technology NOW. In 5 years, tdm will be 20% on the market and Nortel will push fermly upgrades

 

[SStieferman]

Wow, we've had 7920's dropping like flies as well John. I'm guessing ~30 7920's are RMA'd a week out of ~600 total. In fact our Cisco SE has us in the loop a replacement since the "new" version has locktite on the screws...

How are your batteries holding up?

I sure do miss the Companions on the TDM network. I know we can get 4x the number of connections per WAP and a far larger count of devices within the network, but traffic contention, WAP management and user expectation has changed everything.

As far as TDM is concerned, everything will stay except for new build outs that are going to be CCM. Succession really peeved off the MAN. Our Nortel installs however long ago included a very large quantity of TN's to take us well into a 20 year deployment and half way into the gig, the 3.0 and 4.0 upgrades have caused some serious headaches since the boss man is now having to throw cash out again...

 

[dlesap]

As you can all see in that forum there very few VoIP threads. Is that mean just few VoIP PBX are running?