Very Strange... Floppy not readable in XP???? 7

[WillShakespeare]

Hi all,

I have a floppy disk in my possession that is readable from our Windows 9x machines... but NOT XP!! I have tried it on 10 different machines (I know I have more important things to do! But when something weird happens I feel the need to get to the bottom of it!).
Anyone know of any problems of this nature? Does anyone fancy doing a test and creating a floppy with Win9x, copying some files and then trying to read it in XP?
I'd like to hear what you know...

Will

 

[wolluf]

More than likely its a 'which drive formatted floppy' problem. Occasionally happens that floppy formatted on one drive can't be read on another. Try formatting on XP, and if 98 can write to the floppy (might be 2-way mutually exclusive issue - in which case it won't be able to!) put it back in XP and see if that can be read (should be ok).

 

[WillShakespeare]

Thanks Wolluf, but solving the problem wasn't what I was after... I want to know why it won't work. Is there some bug in XP that doesn't allow it to read certain formatted disks. Perhaps FAT16? (The floppy says on the cover DOS formatted)
XP sees the floppy, but says the disk in the drive is not formatted, would you like to format it now?
As far as drives... the exact style of machine (HP XE310) which has W98 on updatirs reads it fine, while the one on the next desk with XP cannot! I have now tried it in several different PCs, from old to new, and laptops, plus a couple of W2K servers. The W2K and the XP OS systems cannot read it, but the Win9x systems can.
I have already recovered the data and put it on a new floppy that can be seen by all OS systems here, so I don't need a 'solution' per se... I just want to understand what is happening... hungry for knowledge (sad git that I am!!), that sort of thing.

Thanks,

Will

 

[wolluf]

Well, you've already got a floppy that can be read by all your operating systems - so that should tell you its NOT an operating system thing per se. As I said before, the actual drives concerned can cause this. Also, I think the way 9x based systems format a floppy is a bit different to how NT based systems do it (although they all produce FAT12 filestore), so that can add to the possible mismatch. From experience, I think floppies formatted on 9x/NT based o/s fail more often when read in NT/9x based o/s than when read on same based system that they were created on.

 

[LadyH]

We have run into this issue a great deal and it is actually related to the XP OS. It has to do with the floppy disk formats that are supported by XP. Go to Microsoft Article 309623 for an explaination of the issue. We have not found a viable solution other then to refer our students to Windows 98 machines if they experience the issue(I work for a community college.
Heather

pcheather@yahoo.com

 

[wolluf]

LadyH - that article just says XP can't format other than 1.44MB. I've just successfully formatted a disk in 98, written to it and read it in XP (and vice versa). But I have (as I said earlier), noticed more problems moving floppies between NT based and 9x based systems than between the same o/s type. Floppies are a temperamental media (drop one, and it might not read again - or not on 9 out of 10 - or it may be ok dropped a 100 times).

 

[WillShakespeare]

Thanks Heather and Wolluf, both. I do appreciate Heather's attempt to offer a solution, especially. I have had a look around on the web, and there does seem to be little info on this particular problem. I found one link to a similar site to Tek-Tips, where the thread actually ended with someone suggesting they crack open the old floppy and reintert it carefully into a new case, taping back together!! I don't think I'll join that forum!!

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Win98/Q_20175368.html

Anyways, if youa ll find anything more, please post back. I will too.

Will

 

[Trumps]

We come across this sometimes - the other problem that may be causing this is a head alignment problem. The heads for the floppy drive on one machine may be slightly out compared to your XP machine.

Mark

 

[WillShakespeare]

Thing is Mark, I have tried it on several different pieces of hardware of various ages, and the only thing that is absolute on 30+ machines, is that the disk only works if you have Windows 9x on the machine.
SO I can't see where the head alignment could conincidentally be off only on the XP machines.

Will

 

[bjzielinski]

I've run into similar problems just last night. My computer has XP pro and my wife's laptop has 98. Some of her floppies will work on mine, some will not. I don't recall this problem before with the same hardware and Win2k. But I found the problem sporadic, if I rebooted or took the disk out and reinserted it, pushing it in and down, it would work. I've always hated floppy drives (why are they still called that? That hard plastic is not floppy!) because they haven't changed one bit in the past 15 years and are about as reliable as a Yugo. I can't tell you how many problems I've encountered when I worked in the lab at college due to bad disks. One thing I have noticed is a disk formatted in Win2k and I think XP will say "NTLDR missing" if in the drive when the computer boots whereas a 9x disk will say "nonsystem disk" or something to that extent, no matter the machine used. Bill Zielinski
bzielinski@co.midland.mi.us
County of Midland, Michigan

 

[LadyHusker]

I'm having similar problem. I've formatted blank disks (that had never been formatted) using XP Pro. Saved data on them, went to upload to another site, and error comes up that disk is not formatted, do you want to format. Select ok, get error that disk cannot be formatted. Same disk is just fine in Win 98.

Possibly the disk drive is not matching for XP?

 

[wolluf]

This post could go on forever - floppy disks are not reliable. Any differences in the way they are set up (formatted) exacerbates this (between formatting and reading o/s). Floppy drives are different. Drives and disks are also dirt cheap, and old technology (but compatibility/reliability has always been like this - no chance of improvement. Live with it.

 

[roamer1]

while wolluf is probably right, I do have this to say:

bjzielinski wrote

One thing I have noticed is a disk formatted in Win2k and I think XP will say "NTLDR missing" if in the drive when the computer boots whereas a 9x disk will say "nonsystem disk" or something to that extent, no matter the machine used.

I had this prob too- drove me nutty! has something to do with something 2k/xp writes to the header or something (I will look for the MS help that finally provided the answer- If I find it I will post it here). It occurs when a floppy formatted on a 2k/xp box is SYS'd from a WIN9x box (or other DOS), or by a utility created to run from a WIN9x boot disk. The workaround for me was to ALWAYS format floppys from WIN9x. The floppies formatted in WIN 9x are read/wrote fine by ALL (Includes DOS, 2k & XP), so mebbe this info will help others here as well. 'Course, I have the luxury of having a DOS box running on my bench all the time...

 

[linney]

Maybe it's something like this?


149877 - Boot Record Signature AA55 Not Found

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;149877&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

SUMMARY
Intel-based computers rely on the system BIOS to load and execute bootstrap code. The BIOS bootstrap routine generates an int 0x19 which loads the first sector of the floppy or hard disk (0:0:1 in CHS) in memory at segment address 0000:7C00H. The first physical sector is called the
master boot record (MBR) and contains the primary bootstrap loader code.

After loading sector zero, the BIOS checks that the last two bytes of that sector are 55AA as seen on the disk. This 55AA is called a boot record signature and is kind of like an EOF when the sector is read. This is something that the BIOS requires when booting. If the boot record signature is not present, you will probably get a BIOS-dependent message:

Boot Record Signature AA55 Not Found, xxyy Found


Alternately, the message

Non-System or Non-Bootable Disk


or the message

Strike f1 to retry boot


Read on........via link.

 

[WillShakespeare]

Wooluf,

I'm sorry if were wasting your time, but if you can live with it, then fine. Your way of dealing isn't the same as mine. And before I knew of this problem, I could have copied an important file to a floppy on my Win98 system, then tested the floppy by going to it and reading the doc successfully on this machine, then deleting the file from the hard drive... before I upgrade the machine to XP... then where would I be? Up the proverbial creek without paddles, and it wouldn't be anything to do with unreliability. If you know it all, then why bother coming to this discussion? If you haven't anything constructive to say, then don't waste space by posting here.

Thanks for your additions roamer and linney.

Still looking for answers!

Will

 

[Xemus]

We ran into this problem here and after much searching, discovered that XP requires a "Media Descriptor Byte" when reading floppies. 9x machines don't use this byte, thus when you format a disk in 9x, it is not included and more than likely will not be recognized in XP.
Easy fix is to format your disk in XP, then it should work on both systems, or copy the files to an XP -formatted disk in 9x. MCSE, A+

 

[linney]

Some more information on "Media Descriptor Byte".


140060 - Error Accessing Floppy Disks Using Windows NT

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;140060&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

http://oalinfo.tamu.edu/faq/faq_print.asp?faqID=25

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...ia+Descriptor+Byte%22%2Bformat%2Bwindows%2Bxp

 

[WillShakespeare]

Excellent chaps! Thanks for the info!

Will

 

[BlackburnKL]

I guess it's time that I also join the fray. I have experienced the same problem described here. I have "worked around" it by throwing the offending floppies away and using others. I know that doesn't help those unable to recover important files, but in my case was acceptable.

I do want to comment, however, on several of the earlier posts. I used to work in an environment where we received floppies containing data from all over the world. Occasionally, some were unreadable. Often this is caused by the mylar disk inside (the floppy part) not being able to spin freely. In the days of 5.25-inch floppies, we rescued the data from many a floppy by slitting the sides open so it could spin better. While less frequent, the same trick has rescued data from quite a few 3.5-inch floppies as well. Yes, it's a little drastic. No, I don't continue to use the disks later. But I can assure you that splitting the hard case protecting the floppy disk inside (and removing the door and mechanism) is a last resort method well worth trying before just giving up on a diskette that you can't read. As for placing it in another case, that may be going a little far, but I wouldn't criticize that, either. But again, I wouldn't attempt to continue to use the disk after recovering the data from it.

Also, as a side note, I did some speed and reliability tests on a bunch of floppies on different machines years ago and found that--in my testing--the 5.25-inch floppies were faster and somewhat less prone to failure. No, I'm not advocating a return to the 5.25-inch floppy. Just wanted to share a little info on the subject. BlackburnKL

 

[ajcarr]

My XP system often won't read any floppies after being in sleep mode. Works OK after re-boot.