V4.0...... 3

[latitude12]

Here are some V4 highlights:

No support for 403, 406v1, 406v2 pre PCS 08.
No SIP trunk support for SOE (any model).
No support for 64xx, 4606, 4612, 4624.

 

[janni78]

Do you have this on paper?

 

[kristiandg]

The Beta Trial invite (which detailed some of that) came out last wk. However, I don't think he's supposed to be posting that info. Hmmm.

Kris G.

 

[latitude12]

It's no big secret. Better that people know now than in six months time.

 

[janni78]

How can they drop support for 403, just a year ago they sold that thing.
And when did the 406v2 PCS08 come.
Is this one of Avaya's brilliant moves again?

 

[kristiandg]

In that case...
The lack of 403 & 406v1 support has to do with memory, or lack of it. Why there was a release of 406v2 that wasn't equipped with enough memory, that I don't know as 3.1 was already in the works and it was known the memory requirements would only escellate from there.

I think they should offer a swap-out program for people who were nice enough to trust the 406v2 and purchased early, then got screwed on the lack of memory.

Its also a bummer for me, that they'll no longer support 64xx phones. Sure, you can plug them in, but if there are any other bugs, they won't fix 'em.

That one pissed me off as it allowed a company to deploy the same model set company-wide. Not to mention, alot of people don't like the LCD-based phones, and like the visual feedback of an LED. The 44xx don't work on Definity so there's no upgrade path. ARGH!!!!

How's that.

Kris G.

 

[tlpeter]

how can they say that a 406v2 before pcs08 is not supported
there must be loads off those things at stock
before these are all sold out, the release is already there
it is not realy a good argument to give to a customer
replacing a pbx that looks the same as the one you replace

 

[janni78]

Seems like Avaya wants people to buy new PBXs and phone every second year

We have customer that migrated from INDeX to IPO DT not long ago and now gonna migrate to IPO DS, and they will not be happy if they have to migrate again in 2 years.

 

[AAAPhoneBrad]

The 64XX issue is not cool. We replace smaller Definity systems all the time and the fact that they keep the same phones helpss, less money for the upgrade and easier install for us.....bummer!

 

[kristiandg]

Tell me about it. That was a shocker to me. However, I do know that Avaya stopped making the 6424 (which was my favorite - I hate the 6416 it looks like something is missing), so maybe this is precursor to a discontinuation. They did last for like 12 years. Good set.

I sent an e-mail to them officially stating my disappointment on the 64xx issue. I advise any of you adversely affected by this to do the same.

Kris G.

 

[ThePhoneMn]

Where do we send these emails? Are you just sending them to your regional rep? I will probably wait until I see the official announcement, but thanks for getting me readied up.

I have a big problem with all of the above. Avaya has always been excellent in the past with phone sets migrating to newer releases (ATL, MLS, etc.).

I agree with Kristian on the LED (44xx) vs. LCD (54xx) phones. I show users the two phones in a demo, and most like the look of the LCD, but take the LED phones because they are visually easier to operate.

 

[crumthwacket]

The entire 6400 series has been discontinued in many places "over there"-

http://support.avaya.com/japple/css...tID=161339&temp.bucketID=147386&PAGE=Document

- so it's no surprise. However, it's more than a little bothersome that early versions of the 406V2 will not support the new release.

 

[IPGuru]

The lack of support for new firmware on an old system is an interesting can of worms.

The system tthat was purchased will still be supported at the final firmware release for that model

expecting upogrades to be available forever is like asking ford to replace your engine evey time they upgrade your model of car.

How many versionds of the definity CPU have been released & is the original CPU still capable of running the latest firmware?

At least this time Avaya are makeing everyone aware at least 6 months befor the chaneg happens unlike the fiassco with the 20XX DT handsets which were dropped without notice
towards the end of V3.0 field trials!

The IP403 & IP406V1 have been out of manufacture for some time but will run V3.2 firmware, if your custs want a V4.0 upgrade for extra features then it is not unreasonable to charge, on the other hand if they are having probles due to bugs then Avaya should either fix the bugs or replace the unit.

(I am still disapointed with the anouncement though - especialy the lack of SIP trunks on the SOE)

 

[latitude12]

The lack of SIP support on the SOE is interesting, makes me wonder if SIP trunks will require a different VCM card.

Making upgrades chargeable for old systems isn't unreasonable, but doing so now after years of it being free will cause problems. If you need to change out your control unit and all your phones, why not buy a whole new system? A lot of the new features are licenced anyway, so effectively you'll have to pay twice.

And Avaya better swap any pre PCS 08 406v2s, otherwise a lot of people will be upset.

 

[kristiandg]

The e-mail address would be "newprodintro" at avaya dot com.

And you know what, if they want to stop manufacturering them, thats one thing. But continue to fix softare bugs pertaining to them for the next 4 releases. If I recall correctly, an s8720 (Definity) can support 30-button MET sets (from the old Horizon/Dimension). Now THATS backwards compatibility.

Also, since the 406v2 is only a grand, its not the end of the world, but smaller sites would be upset. However, smaller sites wouldn't necessarially benefit from the 4.0 features, and if they did they'd pay for it. If it were a 412 that couldn't handle it, then there'd be an issue. However, along those lines, I'm wondering if all units (older 412s included) always assumed a certain amount of RAM for the operating system and PBX application. I wonder if on these larger systems if Avaya is "cheating" by taking some of the RAM normally used for the database of a larger system to sustain the OS and PBX app, while building more RAM into future releases. People, be on the lookout, as I suspect that might be a possibility. This could adversely affect larger 412 depoyments. Just a guess, but seems logical.

Kris G.

 

[janni78]

How cheap the 406v2 is isn't really an excuse.

Since some of 4.0 new features probably will be licensed they will have to pay for it even if it would work on their old system.

The question is that since there are customers that will upgrade for the second time in short time now, first from INDeX to IPO DT and now to IPO DS, how can they trust that what they buy today isn't unsupported in 2 year?

That's not really a way to keep customers happy. Even if I know why and can understand it, try telling it to the customer and see if he doesn't look elsewhere for his next system.

 

[kristiandg]

Well, for those of you who think Avaya doesn't listen to your concerns, allow me to disuade that line of thinking. Take note that a majority of the posts on this thread were from the past 24 hours and the thread has only been alive for 48.

I received a phone call from Avaya this morning. Now, Avaya isn't allowed to post to this (or any) forum as a general rule. However, the conversation I had should help alleviate some of the issues in this thread.

First, 406v2 PCS8 and lower. These units had 16 megs of RAM in them and the newer PCS9 and higher have 64 megs due to the forseen need for space. What I've been told is that if you're part of the beta program and you have a 16-meg unit, it will be swapped out with a 64-megger. The current plan is also that when 4.0 goes GA, people with 16-meggers will also be able to swap out with 64-meggers. They have the capability to upgrade the RAM so its easy for them to do it. Again, this is the PLAN.

Second, SIP support on SOE. This has nothing to do with VCMs. All existing VCMs will be compatible with SIP on 4.0. It is purely a memory issue. The SOE, 403, and 406v1 all had 16 megs of RAM. Now, they've stripped SIP because that piece of code is huge. In fact, even if they had found a way to squeeze it into the SOE, the next maintenance release would probably push it over the limit, so whats the point. Imagine upgrading to 4.0 and not being able to load a bug fix. Then you'd really be upset.

The 403 & 406v1 have been around for years and the writing was on the wall when the 406v2 took both of their pricepoints. So, it not supporting 4.0 isn't too surprising.

In terms of 64xx support. Again, its not that it won't work, but if there are bugs, the current decision is to not fix them for that set series. This decision was apparently based on feedback received last year when the question was asked. Therefore, if anyone wishes this to not be the case, they need to shoot an e-mail over to "newprodintro" at avaya dot com so they can re-evaluate that decision. If its just one or two people, its not worth the R&D (thats me talking), but if its 100, thats a different story.

Hope this clarifies some things and shines some light where there was darkness.

Kris G.

 

[crumthwacket]

Good job Kris, and thanks.

1) The ability to swap the early 406V2 for a more current version is a relief. I can deal with the plan for the older 406 and 403 units.
2) The 6400 series are nice, but from the perspective of an older (not so much wiser) participant, things have always changed. Support for the 6400s would be good; but not at the expense of future capabilities.

Oh yeah - here's a star

 

[kristiandg]

Thanks....

64xx support isn't hindering any future capabilities, merely insuring compatibility and uniformity within an enterprise.

Kris G.

 

[superikey]

As an Avaya BP, how do I particpate in the feild trial?