Using code posted on TT 2

[cian]

Hi guys,

I am sure this must have been asked more than once in the forums.

What are your thoughts on using code which is posted on TT, whether it was posted with a question or as a response?
Do you assume the poster has copyright on the code or because it is posted in a public forum do you assume it it free-for-all use?
Just curious!



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[CajunCenturion]

To answer your question, I would assume that any code posted without accompanying
copyright notice is free for all use.

It is certainly possible that someone who posts code at the site has a copyright on that code. However, I (although not an attorney), would also expect that it is encumbant on them to also post the copyright notice if they wish to enforce that copyright.

Otherwise, I would think that anyone who voluntarily posts code on this site should reasonably expect that code to be copied and used. And I also think its reasonable to use any code that posted on TT without a copyright notice.

Given the totally public nature of this site, if you want to prevent others from seeing and/or using your code - then don't post it. If you want to provide help, without showing code, then explain the algorithm. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[cian]

Thanks for the response CajunCenturion!

What do we assume in the case of a poster who submits code but is obviously a beginner and more than likely is unfamiliar with copyrighting?

Do we also assume that most, if not all, people who are experienced coders are also familiar with copyrighting? Do most people know what elements make up a 'valid' copyright notice?

I guess you kinda answered this but do you think it's possible that anyone posting code assumes that we assume the code is copyrighted and will be respected?
Or intends the code only for the person who may have asked the question?

As far as I know once anyone publishes code in a tangible form then that code is copyrighted the original author, even without a copyright notice. Does posting code mean you forfeit this ownsership?

Sorry for the mix of questions! Personally, in all the guides, faqs, tutorials on programming or web design, I have never (as far as I can remember) come across any information on copyrighting. The only information I have seen was in my days when I dabbled in writing (stories not code).


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[CajunCenturion]

Those are some great questions. Again, I'm not an attorney, but I'll put my opinion out there.

The experience level of coder is irrelavent. Knowledge of copyright law by the coder is irrelavent. Either the copyright conditions exist for the posted code or they don't.

If a person wishes to insure that they can enforce their copyrights, its up to them to insure that the conditions are met.

I guess the only assumption I would make, with respect to Tek-Tip postings and copyrights is that in only a very very small majority does the subject even enter their mind.

I think you may be right in that publishing code in a tangible format establishes copyright to the original author. But that in itself brings ups some interesting and practical matters.

If I were to take some code that you posted and you decided to enforce that copyright - then what? Who would be the original owner - cian? In the eyes of the law, who is cian? And could you actually prove that you are cian, and the rightful owner of that code? and it was you, acting under that alias that posted the code? Who in the eyes of the law is CajunCenturion? How could you possible prove that I copied and used your code? Could you identify me? I think the law might have some difficulty in establishing who the real parties are. And then, you'd have show how you were damaged by the action.

As is the case with most legal interpretations, it will probably require that a case be taken to court, and appealed, so that a legal precedent can be set. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[cian]

Thanks again for the feedback. You made some really interesting comments!
Can I throw out two more questions?

1. What if someone posts code that is copyrighted by someone else, I presume we are expected to respect the original copyright? Of course we would have to know the code belonged to someone else, but I have seen it here.

2. Does TT make any statement regarding copyrighting? I thought you might know as you are probably here a lot longer than me!

Thanks again for your comments, I find it a really interesting subject.


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[CajunCenturion]

If you look at the upper right hand corner of the page, you will see a link to site policies . At the bottom of that page is a link to the Tek-Tips disclaimer page.

If someone posted code that was copyrighted by someone else, shame on the poster, and I would certainly respect that copyright. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[cian]

Thanks again CC.
Nice chatting with ya!


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[CajunCenturion]

It has been a pleasure, hopefully some of the others will add their 2 cents in. I'm sure their are other perspectives to digest. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Wullie]

Hi Guys,

One point I would like to pick up on was a comment made by Cian above..

Or intends the code only for the person who may have asked the question?

There are a few ways to look at this but the purpose of these forums are to act as a knowledge base for all users. If someone wants only a specific user to use the code then they should not post it on a public forum.

Another way to look at this would be that in the unlikely occasion that someone did try to enforce copyright on a piece of code, how many pieces of code have you supplied that person with in the past that would also come into the equation...

What goes around, comes around..

Hope this helps Wullie

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The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell

 

[cian]

Thanks for your input Wullie, I totally agree. hard to understand the way some people think though!

Even with the issue of copyrighting aside, I would say it's down to respecting another persons work. If someone works hard on a script, then posts it to get help with some issues then wouldn't it be unfair to rip-off that code?

Thanks for your thoughts guys!


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[Techart]

Interesting points that you bring up here. My 2 (who stole the cent sign off my computer?) My 2 cents worth: I believe that these forums are of great value to those who want to learn as much as possible about their chosen profession. You can often learn much more from your peers than you can from books or classrooms. All these things together create an incredible opportunity for learning and sharing knowledge and experience. I do not believe that you would find very many individuals who are enethical or immoral that would be posting in an ethics forum. The forum itself would appeal only to those with higher values. Keep writing, I sure enjoy reading your ideas and thoughts.

Thanks

 

[Tarwn]

I would like to add in a small sidenote (when don't I? ) I was helping out someone via the forum at one point and posted a rather long piece of code that I had also included a copyright statement. I do not expect users to repay me. I placed the code in public domain and fully expect people to use it. But...I also expect my name to remain attached to it, more as a respect type of thing than a demand. This would be the case if I had been talking to the poster in person and had given him a copy on disk.
I thought it was a very nice piece of code, I realized that it would be very useful to the person, copyright was held by myself, so I decided to distribute it freely.

I consider code posted here is free game. I would not copy someone elses work, and if they believe it complicated or in depth enough to be copyrighted, I will give them the respect they deserve by leaving their name attached, only adding my own if the code is altered. I'm not sure how well this fits with everyone elses beliefs, but that is how I work, here and elsewhere.

-Tarwn --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
For my next trick I will pull a hat out of a rabbit (if you think thats bad you should see how the pigeon feels...)