My computer runs low : system 36%, User 36% GDI 45%, which I don't really understand, except sometimes I get the message to close some programs or the computer will stop. Closing programs does not help, and I usually have to restart it, but shortly thereafter I have the same thing with the Resource Meter. Do I need more RAM - have 160 or more GB...have 2.99 and using 1.48, or do you have any other suggestions? Thanks!
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System Resources 9
- Thread starter MJR
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Yes, that is extremely low resources, my computers is tuned to run at 96%. You must have every program on the start up menu running, or you have a virus. I am a little more that a beginner, but the following may help. This is pretty basic, but hit control, alt, and delete buttons at the same time , and you open the close programs windows. This tells you which programs are loaded from the start up menu when you boot up. I will assume that you have OS 95/98/or ME. These programs run in the 'background' and don't show up on your taskbar, like when you open a program. You want to clean up what is loaded. You probably want to get rid of everything except explorer, sys tray, and maybe your printer program if you have a printer. To stop these from loading, go to the start-up menu. One way to get to it is by clicking on the start button, run, and type in msconfig in the box. Open the start up tab and delete the items that were previously viewed in the close program window I just mentioned. You might want to keep anything that has to do with power settings if you have standby mode enabled to save power, and also keep anything that has to do with registry, and printers. Write everything down before you start unchecking in case you delete something that you shouldn't have. The best way would to be to delete one at a time. Unchecking some items will prompt a reboot to take effect.
As you are proceeding, right click my computer, hit properties, and click the performance tab to check you sys performance to see if it goes higher as you eliminate unnecesary programs from loading. I'm not sure about the way you described your RAM, I don't think that you have a Gig of memory. The normal amount of RAM is usually, 32,64,96,128,256, etc. MEGABYTES not GIGABYTES, depending on the amount of SIMM's or DIMM's installed. For future reference, describe what operating system you are using, (Win 3.1, 95, 98, ME, or 2000. Hope this helps some.
As you are proceeding, right click my computer, hit properties, and click the performance tab to check you sys performance to see if it goes higher as you eliminate unnecesary programs from loading. I'm not sure about the way you described your RAM, I don't think that you have a Gig of memory. The normal amount of RAM is usually, 32,64,96,128,256, etc. MEGABYTES not GIGABYTES, depending on the amount of SIMM's or DIMM's installed. For future reference, describe what operating system you are using, (Win 3.1, 95, 98, ME, or 2000. Hope this helps some.
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CitrixEngineer
Technical User
What you are describing has the classic symptoms of leaky applications.
What Operating system are you running?
Do you run many programs simultaneously?
What are the programs?
Do you keep the Resource meter open continuosly?
The Resource metering utilities only give a vague idea of what is happening, and really only give concern if available resources are around 10% - 0% and no applications are running.
How much RAM do you have? Your post seems to suggest that you have 160Mb, and 1.48Gb free hard disk space, although it does not categorically state this.
What is the size of your swap file?
CE
What Operating system are you running?
Do you run many programs simultaneously?
What are the programs?
Do you keep the Resource meter open continuosly?
The Resource metering utilities only give a vague idea of what is happening, and really only give concern if available resources are around 10% - 0% and no applications are running.
How much RAM do you have? Your post seems to suggest that you have 160Mb, and 1.48Gb free hard disk space, although it does not categorically state this.
What is the size of your swap file?
CE
- Thread starter
- #4
Am running Win 98, and found that I had a lot of programs running and unchecked most of them which brought me up to 86% instead of 36. I do not always have the resource meter open, but do when I keep getting messages about low resources. Have 160Mb and 1.48 Gb free hard disk space. What is the swap file, how do I get to it?
Thanks to both of you for your assistance.
Thanks to both of you for your assistance.
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Hi. I'll try to explain system resources and why they are a problem There are two "stacks" of memory set aside to keep track of things like windows location, size, color, icons, etc. These two stacks are controled by two programs. user.exe and gdi.exe. When you open a program, say a word processor those programs stores certain things in those stacks. When that program closes those elements are suppose to be freed in memory. However, some programs "leak" in that they are poorly written and don't tell user.exe or gdi.exe to free the memory. Those stacks are set quantities. When they are filled up, that's it. Your computer will lock up. Adding more memory won't help to the best of my knowledge, though my knowledge may be incomplete or outdated.
Your swap file is actually your virtual memory. When Windows needs to swap something out of memory to free it up for another program it writes what is in RAM to your hard drive. It's one thing that Microoft got right in this operating system. You can delete this file, but don't bother it'll just come back and it's necessary. You can set the size to 0, but I don't think you'll like the result. Your computer may not boot at all. Don Swayser
swayser@optonline.net
Your swap file is actually your virtual memory. When Windows needs to swap something out of memory to free it up for another program it writes what is in RAM to your hard drive. It's one thing that Microoft got right in this operating system. You can delete this file, but don't bother it'll just come back and it's necessary. You can set the size to 0, but I don't think you'll like the result. Your computer may not boot at all. Don Swayser
swayser@optonline.net
- Thread starter
- #6
Hi MJR, glad you got up to 86% although I was hoping you could get it up to the mid 90's. You will notice that even with the exact settings, the % will vary by 2 or 3% each time you boot. Not sure why on this one, but I'll file it with the other 1,000's of other mysterious things to be learned some other day.
I have a QUESTION BACK AT YOU, or maybe someone else--I have Win98-SE (4.10.2222), and have never seen this resource meter that you and CitrixEng. made reference to. It seems like it has a different set of parameters than the 'performance tab' resources that I was was referencing, (86 % - 96%. I looked under system tools where I thought it might be located but it wasn't there. But then again, neither is the performance monitor I've read about. Maybe my version of 98 doesn't include it. Or maybe it has to be custom loaded from the setup disk, or......? So.....where does one find/open this resource meter ??? Thx, fenix....(95 today, but it's a dry heat ! )
PS.. And yes, there certainly IS so much to know (and learn) about these machines. Wish I started 15 years ago instead of 1 year ago.
This is a great website !!! Thx to those who run it.
QUESTION #2-- has anyone ever heard of or used 'clipbook'? (it's on the 95 OS setup disk) IS IT A CLIPBOARD EXTENDER like the product called 'clipmate' as sold by ?
I have a QUESTION BACK AT YOU, or maybe someone else--I have Win98-SE (4.10.2222), and have never seen this resource meter that you and CitrixEng. made reference to. It seems like it has a different set of parameters than the 'performance tab' resources that I was was referencing, (86 % - 96%. I looked under system tools where I thought it might be located but it wasn't there. But then again, neither is the performance monitor I've read about. Maybe my version of 98 doesn't include it. Or maybe it has to be custom loaded from the setup disk, or......? So.....where does one find/open this resource meter ??? Thx, fenix....(95 today, but it's a dry heat ! )
PS.. And yes, there certainly IS so much to know (and learn) about these machines. Wish I started 15 years ago instead of 1 year ago.
This is a great website !!! Thx to those who run it.
QUESTION #2-- has anyone ever heard of or used 'clipbook'? (it's on the 95 OS setup disk) IS IT A CLIPBOARD EXTENDER like the product called 'clipmate' as sold by ?
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
A swapfile will have been created by Windows 9.x as it was installed. For some reason, Microsoft insist on making the thing dynamic.
This was OK in the bad old days when disk space was a real issue, but in these days of multi-gigabytes, a static swapfile is the way to go, IMO.
WHY:
A dynamic swapfile becomes fragmented easily, which affects system performance - especially on systems with large amounts of RAM. I'm happy to provide a more in-depth explanation, if required.
HOW:
Go to your Virtual Memory settings. You can get to it by right-clicking My Computer, choosing properties and (I think) File System (I'm on a WinNT/UNIX site today and there are no W9.x computers to refer to - hopefully someone else can correct me!) Set the initial size and the maximum size to the same amount. Make this amount about 1.5 times the size of your RAM. In this case, I would set it to 240Mb. Windows will ask you if you are sure that you don't want Windows to manage your virtual memory settings. I'm absolutely positive that I don't ;-)
If you need more stacks, you can set an amount in your config.sys - you need to set the number and size of the stacks (I think the default is 9, 128), although Windows normally manages fairly well by itself.
fenix:
QUESTION 1: The Resource Meter is one of the optional tools that you can install with Windows 9.x. It is usually found under Start\Programs\Accessories\System Tools. If it's not there, you haven't installed it, but it will be on your installation CD.
QUESTION 2: Yes, the clipbook is a clipbook extender. I find it a bit of a nuisance, since I normally just copy and paste once.
Hope this helps!
This was OK in the bad old days when disk space was a real issue, but in these days of multi-gigabytes, a static swapfile is the way to go, IMO.
WHY:
A dynamic swapfile becomes fragmented easily, which affects system performance - especially on systems with large amounts of RAM. I'm happy to provide a more in-depth explanation, if required.
HOW:
Go to your Virtual Memory settings. You can get to it by right-clicking My Computer, choosing properties and (I think) File System (I'm on a WinNT/UNIX site today and there are no W9.x computers to refer to - hopefully someone else can correct me!) Set the initial size and the maximum size to the same amount. Make this amount about 1.5 times the size of your RAM. In this case, I would set it to 240Mb. Windows will ask you if you are sure that you don't want Windows to manage your virtual memory settings. I'm absolutely positive that I don't ;-)
If you need more stacks, you can set an amount in your config.sys - you need to set the number and size of the stacks (I think the default is 9, 128), although Windows normally manages fairly well by itself.
fenix:
QUESTION 1: The Resource Meter is one of the optional tools that you can install with Windows 9.x. It is usually found under Start\Programs\Accessories\System Tools. If it's not there, you haven't installed it, but it will be on your installation CD.
QUESTION 2: Yes, the clipbook is a clipbook extender. I find it a bit of a nuisance, since I normally just copy and paste once.
Hope this helps!
CitrixEng, thx for the reply. I'm always saving study material I read online and doing it one at a time is cumbersome, having to go in and out of pages.
I obtained the clipbook program and will try it. I hope that you didn't mean that it was bug-ridden software when you said it was a bit of a nuisance. fenix.
I obtained the clipbook program and will try it. I hope that you didn't mean that it was bug-ridden software when you said it was a bit of a nuisance. fenix.
- Thread starter
- #11
When I tried to change the virtual memory setting to 260Mb I got a message that said if I did this I might not be able to restart my computer and that it might not work optimally. Any truth in this?
And..yes, fenix, I installed the resource meter from the win98 disk. Like you, I didn't realize it was there until it came up in one of my computer talks!
And..yes, fenix, I installed the resource meter from the win98 disk. Like you, I didn't realize it was there until it came up in one of my computer talks!
MJR, I just happened to be on a W2000 system tonite and I saw the parameters that Cit Eng was referring to--(Initial and Maximum settings for virtual memory). I believe that these are swap file settings for Win2000 and (maybe NT 4.0)Win-98 uses minimum and maximum parameters and they are not the same thing. (Mine is set to the available memory on my hard drive, which is 5.68GB) The Windows 2000 max setting is the amount of the hard drive that you want to allocate for your swap file. I don't think you need to mess with these settings at this time on your Win 98 machine. Enjoy.
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
fenix:
These settings are essentially the same whether you're using win9.x or NT.
The only difference (apart from the susbsytem and how it's all put together) is the name. Under Win9.x it's called a Swapfile, under NT it's called a Page File.
Windows always gives you this type of message, implying that if you try to manage this stuff yourself, then your computer will mysteriously self-destruct. It won't of course - but it does need to reboot to change the settings. What the message means is that if you set the swapfile too small or too large, you will encounter "issues".
Whatever it's called, it is a file. Every operating system has an equivalent, including all variants of UNIX.
What it does is to store stuff that either won't fit into memory, or has not been used for a while.
Most people get by without touching this setting, and that's fine for them. If you work on a lot of large files - or even a huge amount of small files (like programmers do), then it is beneficial to set the virtual memory to be a fixed size.
OK, detailed explanation of why a fixed swap file is a good thing for "power" users.
Here is your disk:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSS----------
The X's are hidden or system files, the D's are Data files, the S's represent the Swap file and the -'s are empty space.
Here is your disk when you create a file, and your swap file is dynamic:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSSDS--------
The new D is your new file, and the new S is a new piece of swap file created to store this data. You can see fragmentation of the Swap file beginning already.
You delete this file, and create a new one:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSS--DS------
Notice that the new file and the new piece of Swapfile have been created at the end of all the existing data. Your disk is beginning to fill up - but it has wasted holes in it.
Now, you delete that file, and create a new, large file:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSS----DDDSSS
Your disk is not completely full - but if you try to create a new file, you may well get a low resources error message, because there is no room at the end of the disk.
Another situation that may cause low resource messages is:
XXDDDDD-D-D-DSS-DS--DSDS
If you try to create a file of length DDD, there is no contiguous space into which to write the file, or its accompanying swap file portion.
I hope that the principles are fairly clear, from those crude diagrams.
What happens if you fix the size of the swapfile?
eg:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSSSSS-----
Notice that the swapfile is much larger. It is also empty, reserved space, awaiting copies of your data when you create a file.
It is also finite. It will not try to expand with every file you create - because you've told it not to. As long as it is set bigger than the amount of physical RAM in the machine, this will never be an issue (unless you create many large high-quality video files, in which case you'll have a) more RAM and b) a bigger swap file).
With this setup, you create a file:
XXDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSD----
You create a new file:
XXDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSDD---
You delete the first file:
XXDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSS-D---
Much tider and more efficient.
If you don't fix the size of your swap file, and you use your computer every day, I would recommend a weekly defrag cycle, to keep your hard disk optimised - and to keep some of those infuriating error messages away.
I hope this is of interest (and not too boring!)
These settings are essentially the same whether you're using win9.x or NT.
The only difference (apart from the susbsytem and how it's all put together) is the name. Under Win9.x it's called a Swapfile, under NT it's called a Page File.
Windows always gives you this type of message, implying that if you try to manage this stuff yourself, then your computer will mysteriously self-destruct. It won't of course - but it does need to reboot to change the settings. What the message means is that if you set the swapfile too small or too large, you will encounter "issues".
Whatever it's called, it is a file. Every operating system has an equivalent, including all variants of UNIX.
What it does is to store stuff that either won't fit into memory, or has not been used for a while.
Most people get by without touching this setting, and that's fine for them. If you work on a lot of large files - or even a huge amount of small files (like programmers do), then it is beneficial to set the virtual memory to be a fixed size.
OK, detailed explanation of why a fixed swap file is a good thing for "power" users.
Here is your disk:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSS----------
The X's are hidden or system files, the D's are Data files, the S's represent the Swap file and the -'s are empty space.
Here is your disk when you create a file, and your swap file is dynamic:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSSDS--------
The new D is your new file, and the new S is a new piece of swap file created to store this data. You can see fragmentation of the Swap file beginning already.
You delete this file, and create a new one:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSS--DS------
Notice that the new file and the new piece of Swapfile have been created at the end of all the existing data. Your disk is beginning to fill up - but it has wasted holes in it.
Now, you delete that file, and create a new, large file:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSS----DDDSSS
Your disk is not completely full - but if you try to create a new file, you may well get a low resources error message, because there is no room at the end of the disk.
Another situation that may cause low resource messages is:
XXDDDDD-D-D-DSS-DS--DSDS
If you try to create a file of length DDD, there is no contiguous space into which to write the file, or its accompanying swap file portion.
I hope that the principles are fairly clear, from those crude diagrams.
What happens if you fix the size of the swapfile?
eg:
XXDDDDDDDDDDSSSSS-----
Notice that the swapfile is much larger. It is also empty, reserved space, awaiting copies of your data when you create a file.
It is also finite. It will not try to expand with every file you create - because you've told it not to. As long as it is set bigger than the amount of physical RAM in the machine, this will never be an issue (unless you create many large high-quality video files, in which case you'll have a) more RAM and b) a bigger swap file).
With this setup, you create a file:
XXDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSD----
You create a new file:
XXDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSDD---
You delete the first file:
XXDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSS-D---
Much tider and more efficient.
If you don't fix the size of your swap file, and you use your computer every day, I would recommend a weekly defrag cycle, to keep your hard disk optimised - and to keep some of those infuriating error messages away.
I hope this is of interest (and not too boring!)
- Thread starter
- #14
Great info but I want to extend the discussion a little more. I have a Compaq Presario 5000 with 128 RAM and 20 Gb harddrive. My resources continually fall to mid 20's. I went to MSCONFIG and de-selected all the extraneous programs but this seems to be a temporary fix at best. How do I just delete the programs loading in the background? Many of them are Compaq junk that I don't need nor desire. I've gone to add/remove programs and got rid of some of them but others are a still a mystery and don't even show up on the list.
Thanks
Thanks
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
stottsj, what O/S are you using?
128Mb is a fair amount of memory for every O/S except W2k server and Windows XP.
Check Start -> Programs -> Startup for any programs that start automatically. The items in here are usually shortcuts that can be removed by right-clicking the Start button and choosing Explore.
What are the programs that are utilising so much resource?
CE
128Mb is a fair amount of memory for every O/S except W2k server and Windows XP.
Check Start -> Programs -> Startup for any programs that start automatically. The items in here are usually shortcuts that can be removed by right-clicking the Start button and choosing Explore.
What are the programs that are utilising so much resource?
CE
I'm running WinME. I believe the culprit is my scanner software. What I have heartache over is the fact that some of these programs which I have to turn off are actually beneficial. It's a catch 22 - do I load all at start-up or do I just live without them because the OS can't properly handle. My NT 4.0 machine at work never goes below 86% resources and that's with numerous things running in the background!
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
I should have guessed ME when you said you ran msconfig ;-)
ME is (as is the custom with Microsoft) more memory-hungry than its predecessors.
Throwing more memory at it will definitely help.
I agree - it's annoying that vendors provide all kinds of really useful software and system monitoring tools that each consume chunks of limited system resources. Run enough of them, and they're no longer useful tools, but irritating memory hogs.
I tend to run minimal ME setups, and the 3 machines I'm currently running it on have 256Mb RAM. Clearly ME requires a re-think on system optimisation techniques.
ME is (as is the custom with Microsoft) more memory-hungry than its predecessors.
Throwing more memory at it will definitely help.
I agree - it's annoying that vendors provide all kinds of really useful software and system monitoring tools that each consume chunks of limited system resources. Run enough of them, and they're no longer useful tools, but irritating memory hogs.
I tend to run minimal ME setups, and the 3 machines I'm currently running it on have 256Mb RAM. Clearly ME requires a re-think on system optimisation techniques.
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All the above suggestions are wonderful, but I've done all of them. I'm running WinME, I have 512MB RAM thrown in, with MemTurbo running (it's an awesome geek tool!). MemTurbo fixes a lot of those memory leaks and for most people will do the trick. I have everything possible unchecked from my startup group (can't uncheck Norton Anti-Virus or Internet Security). My swap file is as large as the room left on my 40GB hard drive. My system resources fall to 20% and below (the other day they were down to 3%!). I'm a technician (I do this for a living and help many customers with this problem), and the resources out there for information on system resources are fairly minimal, it's not just Microsoft that's lacking in information. The last thing I can come up with is that perhaps I need a bigger better video card. My resources fall down when I IE 5.5 open, MS FrontPage, and possibly Outlook. It just doesn't take much! I have to restart 2-3 times while designing websites, otherwise I lose all my TrueType fonts, and start getting errors, the system bogs down, etc. If anyone else has any other suggestions, I would REALLY appreciate it!
Thanks!
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Thanks!
BBsAmazon
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