Seeking wireless extension recommendation 2

[trinetintl]

Hi everybody, I am working on a preliminary design for a new customer, it is a simple one, however the customer wants to add at least a couple of wireless phones for roaming nurses with all the features of a regular extension. I am still waiting for more information about the location since it is a new construction, but generally speaking what is the best and most affordable solution that offers full functionality, such as call park, one button hold, transfer, conference, etc. is it DECT, WiFi, Spectralink? I was leaning towards DECT although I lost track of Spectralink some time ago, but last time I heard, they introduced a new line of very inexpensive phones.

RE

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[intrigrant]

Search the forum, there are a lot threads about the matter with all the info you require.

 

[gwebster]

Avaya has a multi-cell DECT offering (3700-series) which integrates very well with IP Office. Both Spectralink and Ascom have SIP-based WiFi handsets that work with IP Office.

 

[qtelcom]

We used the D160 series for nurses and used repeaters to extend the range if needed. Worked well, easy to deploy, supported, and was the most cost effective. The more expensive DECT offering is great, but expensive for the small scale. I avoid wifi phones and there isn't an easy to deploy/support product out there.

Spectralink was pricey last I looked, Last wifi phone I did was a Unidata INCOM ICW-1000G 3rd party wifi phone off amazon for less than $200 and it worked fine via SIP endpoint, but you are on your own for figuring it out, it was for a single deployment and the customer understood zero support with it.

In all cases you still don't get the exact functionality that a 9508/9608 gives you. (flashing park buttons, user blfs, etc.. )

 

[trinetintl]

@qtelcom, I am looking at the Catalyst config tool and it mentions a range of 100~350 ft indoor cell radius, in your experience what is a more realistic radius, will I be safe calculating an antenna for each 200'-250'? I know that the type of materials that will be used to construct the building will matter but we are talking about DECT and not WiFi, right? I remember a long time ago deploying some Engenius wireless phones at several manufacturing plants across the border and those things handled like if they were cell phones, they had signal all over massive size plants 300'~400'+ or more feet away. We did not deploy any special antennas or anything fancy, just plugged the base into an analog port, put the base right there on the desk and off you go. If it wasn't because the design calls for full featured wireless phone I would put a couple of Engenius on the design and run with it, no doubt in my mind about that, but they want all the fancy stuff and that rules that phone out.

RE

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[trinetintl]

@intrigrant, did a 6 month search and only two posts came up, on the first one, everybody basically tells you to stay away from WiFi and used DECT and on the second one, everybody tells you to stay away from DECT and don't sell wireless.
The only positive think I was able to see is that at least nobody dissed SIP DECT, could this be the solution to offer? Before I take off researching the knowledgebase, can anybody please tell me what is the basic difference between DECT R4 and SIP DECT? Is it that DECT R4 bases use IP licenses and SIP DECT bases use a SIP license?

RE

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[derfloh]

We used the D160 series for nurses and used repeaters to extend the range if needed. Worked well, easy to deploy

I heard some different about the ease of deployment as well as comfort in usage. My coworkers installed a few of them and what I think is that the cheap product gets more expensive than DECT R4 if you calculate the time to spend for installation.

 

[derfloh]

And I don't know what I have to think about the case that they all are delivered with year 2012 serial numbers. Do they sell much less then produced? Will they produce more in the next years or do the still sell it until the stocks are empty?

 

[intrigrant]

Well, my search approach may be different, I always tend to find what I am looking for.
But nevertheless, I was cooking dinner writing my reply and did not have enough time to elaborate.
I can only refer to my own experience(30 years in Telecom):
The D100 works well but is not very user friendly for persons who need to transfer calls a lot (receptionist e.g.) for warehouse employees it is great.
Good audio, good coverage, stable and reliable.
The Avaya DECT is only for the more fortunate as it is expensive but it works very well, easy to deploy and reliable (the latest versions) and very expandable.
We also use GigaSet for single DECT phones and preferrably the analog types or the more expensive SIP types, the cheaper SIP DECT phones are not user friendly when it comes to transferring and in combination with SIP trunks they have some weird problems (calls cut off at random).
As a alternative to the Avaya DECT I reccomend the Spectralink SIP server solution, great coverage, easy to deploy, you can use cheaper repeaters for extra coverage but not all the features a Avaya solution delivers.
Always avoid WiFi wireless phones when having more then one access point, it is a hell to deploy and very unreliable, bad coverage etc. You want a happy customer? Don't do WiFi wireless.
A second option we use as a alternative to the Avaya DECT is a Panasonic system with DECT, they are good with DECT but not a simple install. A lot cheaper as the Avaya DECT and the Spectralink DECT if a lot of basestations are needed. And also here not the features as Avaya delivers but most customers don't use them anyway.

 

[trinetintl]

derflo, because of the price, unfortunately for me, we have never come up with an opportunity where we sell and deploy an Avaya DECT R4 or SIP, ironically price has kept us away from offering Avaya's solution and like I said on a previous post if I could I would stick to Engenius. We have worked with and designed Spectralink solutions in the past but that was a very long time ago, I think DECT R4 will be the closest to Spectralink when it comes to the design; IP DECT Gateway with IP bases stations all connected to the LAN. Based on what I see with SIP DECT I believe it is going to be about the same, D100 base station and D100 repeaters connected to the LAN minus the DECT Gateway, actually I am not even sure if the repeaters also connect to the LAN maybe they don't.

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[trinetintl]

intigrant, I appreciate your response, I believe that they want the wireless phones for nurses roaming the hallways of this building, to be honest with you, we have been to locations like this in the past and most if not all of them do not have wireless phones and I do not think they will use them or use all the features they are requesting like you said, but then again, I am not the customer. I will discuss this with the customer once I meet with him at the location, next week.

RE

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[gwebster]

The choice between single cell, single cell with repeater, or multi-cell will depend upon the size of the building and how far the nurses roam and need to be reachable or maintain a call while walking. Coverage from a single basestation will vary greatly depending upon the environment. Lead-lined diagnostic areas are REALLY good at stopping both DECT and WLAN. The best practice is to do some type of site survey with whatever you decide on deploying to make sure that the nurses have coverage everywhere that they want to have coverage. Anything less can lead to a very unhappy customer what it does not work and the nurses just stop using the phones.

 

[trinetintl]

gwebster, I understand exactly what you are saying and because of our lack of hands on experience with Avaya DECT or WiFi I usually tend to be extremely conservative and over-calculate my designs and that translates into higher bids which is typically not good business. It would be nice if Avaya had some sort of NFR or demo units for DECT to be able to have hands on experience with DECT without breaking the bank, well I guess that's just an excuse, I can always go hunt for something used on ebay or on the graymarket.

RE

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[qtelcom]

D100 repeaters are not on the LAN or POE, you just need a power outlet nearby for them for the power brick. I've done eyeball surveys before with pretty good success for the small scale stuff, but it's best to do the real survey using the values the dect phones spit out as you walk around as your guide for deployments that aren't obvious for coverage. Don't expect the D100 series to have the range of the engenius, but I've good success with using repeaters for areas that are too far from the base station. I'd say they meet their ~350 ft in an open environment, starting putting up walls, doors, lead lined x-ray rooms, etc... and who knows!

The knowledgebase will have all the info, if you haven't used a D160 yet, you better look at the user guide for it so you know how it will work for call handling for the end user. Also look at the capacity and performance section and make sure you fit within that. 6 total repeaters tied to a base station and a max of 3 repeaters daisy chained. <--- there are more things in the knowledgebase.

Also make sure you have the SIP registrar enabled ticked (it's default off now)<---- That cost my tech a couple hours of pulling his hair because they D100 deployment guide didn't mention this step.

http://marketingtools.avaya.com/knowledgebase/businesspartner/index.htm?133

We've done en-genius too which is usually a safe bet when you need really good range with basic analog telset functionality.

 

[trinetintl]

Thanks for all the information, I think I am going to stick with DECT R4 or the Pivot from Spectralink if possible because the site will require at least 2 to 3 base stations and I was just made aware that the DECT SIP will not allow you to roam from one D100 base station to another you must use repeaters. This site may work with a one D100 and two repeaters but I do not like the fact that you have to plug them in and I bet I will not be able to mount them on the ceiling tile which tells me that the solution was designed more towards targeting very small areas/locations, too bad the repeaters do not have PoE and too bad you cannot roam between D100 stations.

RE

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[trinetintl]

I had a conversation on site with the customer, the building is shaped like 3 +, "+++" my plan is to design 3 IP RBS V2 Compact antennas right in the middle of each "+" attached to the ceiling, however now that I went back to check the knowledgebase I found something new where it mentions that the radio pattern is directional and now I am concern because my design calls for installing the antennas face down in the ceiling, like WiFi antennas, by the way the length from middle of the + to the edge is about 90', am I going to have a coverage problem if I design the antennas this way? I do not want to over do the design for just 2 phones and the D100 is out of the question because the repeaters must be plugged into the wall and customer does not want the antennas on top of a desk or in the middle of the hallway.

RE

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