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Project Sedna to Enhance Visual Foxpro 9
- Thread starter craigsboyd
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- #3
craigsboyd
IS-IT--Management
I've posted my feelings on the Road Map at:
...warning, there are only about two of us (so far) in that topic that said anything that resembles positive. I am an admitted optimist when it comes to VFP. But, I am also hyper-logical in the extreme. When I look at everything that MS is doing with VFP over the past year and the projects going forward (Sedna), I can't make that fit with a MS plan to completely kill off VFP. As I say in the above linked page, it has to be the worst exit strategy I have ever seen for a product, if that is indeed what it is.
Craig Bernston and others are convinced that that is exactly what it is. So much so in fact, that Foxblog will be getting a new name and presumably, a new function no longer centered around VFP. I'm sure he has his reasons, but I can't make them out. His ear is closer to the ground than mine where MS is concerned and perhaps he has knowledge that I lack from a reliable source in MS. It is certainly a possibility. I don't presume to be right all the time, and I am certainly keeping my eyes peeled on this one.
But in the end, I have wanted the UI abilities that .NET has. Then I want the language, the native database, the reporting engine and the speed that is VFP. That's what I am looking to develop applications in for the foreseeable future. There is one exception for me... the web. I have and will continue to use ASP.NET with C# (my chosen .NET language) and VB.NET code behinds for that, because it is what .NET really excels at.
So, I find what MS is doing for VFP to be positive. Do I think MS is doing and has done everything they can for VFP? NO, absolutely not... far from it actually. They have done a number of things in this regard over the years that have greatly displeased me. They've omitted us and stepped over us on previous occasions in favor of their homemade developer tools and databases. And, there was a time not so many years ago that I was seriously considering putting my efforts and consumer dollars elsewhere... not elsewhere with MS, but elsewhere entirely.
But, when I think of having access to .NET's UI abilities (and Avalon/XAML) and still being able to do everything else in VFP I can't help but get excited.
.NET absolutely would have spelled the end for VFP had MS not come up with a way for us to leverage it. They couldn't have done anything but completely kill the Fox otherwise, because .NET is strategic for MS and they've bet a good portion of the farm on .NET, Longhorn, Avalon, Indigo, and WinFX (I know I'm mixing technologies with an OS here - sorry).
Can you create a database natively in .NET? Nope. Can you create a Report natively in .NET? Nope. Can you create forms and other UI elements in SQL Server? Nope. I could go on, but I think you get the idea of what I'm saying. MS does not have a replacement for VFP. When they do, and when that product has VFP beat in these and other essential categories, then I'll gladly switch over all of my new development and relegate VFP to maintenance jobs on existing applications. (I work with VFP because it does things that no other MS product can do, it's that simple.) At this point it is absolutely impossible for me to use .NET or any of MS's other products to fill the void that VFP would leave and, to me, it is just as impossible that VFP is being summarily killed at the moment.
...warning, there are only about two of us (so far) in that topic that said anything that resembles positive. I am an admitted optimist when it comes to VFP. But, I am also hyper-logical in the extreme. When I look at everything that MS is doing with VFP over the past year and the projects going forward (Sedna), I can't make that fit with a MS plan to completely kill off VFP. As I say in the above linked page, it has to be the worst exit strategy I have ever seen for a product, if that is indeed what it is.
Craig Bernston and others are convinced that that is exactly what it is. So much so in fact, that Foxblog will be getting a new name and presumably, a new function no longer centered around VFP. I'm sure he has his reasons, but I can't make them out. His ear is closer to the ground than mine where MS is concerned and perhaps he has knowledge that I lack from a reliable source in MS. It is certainly a possibility. I don't presume to be right all the time, and I am certainly keeping my eyes peeled on this one.
But in the end, I have wanted the UI abilities that .NET has. Then I want the language, the native database, the reporting engine and the speed that is VFP. That's what I am looking to develop applications in for the foreseeable future. There is one exception for me... the web. I have and will continue to use ASP.NET with C# (my chosen .NET language) and VB.NET code behinds for that, because it is what .NET really excels at.
So, I find what MS is doing for VFP to be positive. Do I think MS is doing and has done everything they can for VFP? NO, absolutely not... far from it actually. They have done a number of things in this regard over the years that have greatly displeased me. They've omitted us and stepped over us on previous occasions in favor of their homemade developer tools and databases. And, there was a time not so many years ago that I was seriously considering putting my efforts and consumer dollars elsewhere... not elsewhere with MS, but elsewhere entirely.
But, when I think of having access to .NET's UI abilities (and Avalon/XAML) and still being able to do everything else in VFP I can't help but get excited.
.NET absolutely would have spelled the end for VFP had MS not come up with a way for us to leverage it. They couldn't have done anything but completely kill the Fox otherwise, because .NET is strategic for MS and they've bet a good portion of the farm on .NET, Longhorn, Avalon, Indigo, and WinFX (I know I'm mixing technologies with an OS here - sorry).
Can you create a database natively in .NET? Nope. Can you create a Report natively in .NET? Nope. Can you create forms and other UI elements in SQL Server? Nope. I could go on, but I think you get the idea of what I'm saying. MS does not have a replacement for VFP. When they do, and when that product has VFP beat in these and other essential categories, then I'll gladly switch over all of my new development and relegate VFP to maintenance jobs on existing applications. (I work with VFP because it does things that no other MS product can do, it's that simple.) At this point it is absolutely impossible for me to use .NET or any of MS's other products to fill the void that VFP would leave and, to me, it is just as impossible that VFP is being summarily killed at the moment.
- Thread starter
- #4
craigsboyd
IS-IT--Management
Just a couple of parting shots/thoughts:
The VFP Team at MS is 10 people, and the VS Team is well over 1000. There is no way that 10 people can keep up with 1000, though you have to admit they did a pretty stellar job with VFP 9. So, if we can get part of the VS Team to expose .NET features/capabilities as well as for emerging technologies like Avalon and Indigo via COM, and then get the VFP Team of 10 working on report engine enhancements, bug fixes, and libraries of cool VFP classes and C++ DLLs to leverage what .NET exposes... we will survive and end up being able to do stuff that other developers will only wish they could do.
MS has to start pumping out Interop wrappers for .NET anyways, cause the VB community and others didn't take to Visual Studio .NET quite the way MS thought they would. .NET has to be able to augment COM enabled tools and such that already exist, otherwise it will miss out on a large chunk of revenue and the way to .NET adoption will be even more difficult than it already has been for them.
In the end, I believe that a great many of us will be creating n-tier applications. Data-tier and Middle-tier in VFP (some SQL Server -- or other -- backends when the job requires it), and the UI-tier in .NET and hooking the front-end to the back with COM exposed interfaces. Throw the VFP Report capabilities in as part of the UI (it's my guess at this point as to why the report writer is being further enhanced, so we can use it in the above scenario) and you've got one heck of an application.
My firm belief: In 2007 we will be able to do stuff with VFP/.NET that will blow doors off. Ken Levy himself has said that there will be things that we will be able to do that we can't even imagine right now, I'm trusting him to come through on that.
The VFP Team at MS is 10 people, and the VS Team is well over 1000. There is no way that 10 people can keep up with 1000, though you have to admit they did a pretty stellar job with VFP 9. So, if we can get part of the VS Team to expose .NET features/capabilities as well as for emerging technologies like Avalon and Indigo via COM, and then get the VFP Team of 10 working on report engine enhancements, bug fixes, and libraries of cool VFP classes and C++ DLLs to leverage what .NET exposes... we will survive and end up being able to do stuff that other developers will only wish they could do.
MS has to start pumping out Interop wrappers for .NET anyways, cause the VB community and others didn't take to Visual Studio .NET quite the way MS thought they would. .NET has to be able to augment COM enabled tools and such that already exist, otherwise it will miss out on a large chunk of revenue and the way to .NET adoption will be even more difficult than it already has been for them.
In the end, I believe that a great many of us will be creating n-tier applications. Data-tier and Middle-tier in VFP (some SQL Server -- or other -- backends when the job requires it), and the UI-tier in .NET and hooking the front-end to the back with COM exposed interfaces. Throw the VFP Report capabilities in as part of the UI (it's my guess at this point as to why the report writer is being further enhanced, so we can use it in the above scenario) and you've got one heck of an application.
My firm belief: In 2007 we will be able to do stuff with VFP/.NET that will blow doors off. Ken Levy himself has said that there will be things that we will be able to do that we can't even imagine right now, I'm trusting him to come through on that.
- Thread starter
- #5
craigsboyd
IS-IT--Management
I feel that Rick Schummer did a really nice analysis of this whole thing in his blog entry at:
Craig,
I am not abandoning VFP. As I said in my blog, "I’ll still be here working with VFP and supporting Fox applications and the Fox community". While my blog won't be called FoxBlog, it will still be developer oriented and have good Fox information. I've covered lots more than Fox for some time now, so a name change is appropriate.
As for my ear to the ground, I don't know anymore than you do. Several people have agreed with my assessment, others have disagreed. My reading of the Roadmap, Ken's newsletter and UT postings and the FAQ is what it is.
One thing is certain...I'm not going to become a .Net snob. I will encourage people to look at other tools, but I certainly won't disparage VFP for the fantastic tool it is.
Craig Berntson
MCSD, Visual FoxPro MVP, Author, CrysDev: A Developer's Guide to Integrating Crystal Reports"
I am not abandoning VFP. As I said in my blog, "I’ll still be here working with VFP and supporting Fox applications and the Fox community". While my blog won't be called FoxBlog, it will still be developer oriented and have good Fox information. I've covered lots more than Fox for some time now, so a name change is appropriate.
As for my ear to the ground, I don't know anymore than you do. Several people have agreed with my assessment, others have disagreed. My reading of the Roadmap, Ken's newsletter and UT postings and the FAQ is what it is.
One thing is certain...I'm not going to become a .Net snob. I will encourage people to look at other tools, but I certainly won't disparage VFP for the fantastic tool it is.
Craig Berntson
MCSD, Visual FoxPro MVP, Author, CrysDev: A Developer's Guide to Integrating Crystal Reports"
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