Possible to setup dual boot with HP XP recovery CDs? 1

[ss8]

Would like some help on how to dual boot both W98SE and WinXP Home, with two HDs containing respective OS.

Tried to follow all the basic rules but maybe the problem started with my HP Pavillion PC's WinXP recovery CDs. This set always partitions out a 4.6 GB diagnostic area and then installs the XP on the rest of the HD (on separate partition). After installing my W98SE on the 1st HD, the XP install (in the form of "recovery") seemed to erase the 1st HD (where W98 was) and the process would not really come to an end on the 2nd HD --- as some stuff were copied to the 1st 2GB HD. That's why I had to temporarily disconnect the 1st HD, while installing the XP. But when everything is finished and the 2 HDs are cable-selected (XP's as Primary) with the W98 line added in the Boot.ini file, the W98 is not bootable --- indicating sth like "missing HAL.DLL", etc.

I have tried a couple of means from the web but no fix seemed to work. Really wondering if there is a simple, but critical mistake made for my situation...

 

[jimp56]

If I remember correctly it is much easier to do this with windows98 installed first, and then running a typical install of xp, vs. a recovery disk (if possible). The xp installer recognizes the 98 install and will allow you to retain it and dual-boot.

as for your specific scenario, if the above isnt possible, I will defer to others for suggestions...Im sure this has been covered in another thread somewhere here.

 

[gpalmer711]

Doug Knox has the solution that you are looking for - it is not trivial by any means - but will get you sorted.

Greg Palmer
Freeware Utilities for Windows Administrators.

http://www.palmersoft.co.uk

 

[ss8]

Appreciated your quick feedback, jimp56. I checked relevant FAQ and did locate one similar case, which revealed some IDE controller settings issue. As for the standard (clean) install, I believed that HP made this intentionally one has to go their way (in the install path, HD preparation is skipped); like the other person, I have spent huge amount of time re-installing this tailored HP/XP Home edition since I bought the PC two years ago, feeling all possible ways. I would almost want to say that with their version it's difficult, if not impossible, to partition the HD the way one wants (from the beginning)and multiboot as far as the general methodology is concerned. However, I would still appreciate anyone else's particular experience that made it work somehow.

 

[ss8]

Hello, Greg. I guess you meant Doug Knox's previous posts re this issue, or, he'd be able to answer such a question. Being kind of new around here, I tried to search under this name, but only hit those by the name of Doug Trocino, mostly on database. Furthermore, Doug is a staff whose profile is unavailable so that summary of posts are not seen either. Would you please direct a bit more or point me to one of his post if available? Thanks. Simon

 

[bcastner]

http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_9x.htm

 

[ss8]

OK. Ignore the request --- I just realized after posting it that this Doug should be a writer somewhere outside this group. Thanks anyway.

 

[ss8]

Thanks bcastner for the pointing! I am kind of insensative to western names but the stuff under that site was exactly what I tried a couple of days ago. Unfortunately, it did not work for me. I believe that everyone's "shoes" could be slightly different; sometimes to work out something away from norm, one has to try very hard to pinpoint the minor difference that however should be sufficient to fail you completely.

 

[wolluf]

ss8 - posted a reply in thread616-768523 which may or may not be of use.

 

[gpalmer711]

Sorry - I had meant to post the link.

Greg Palmer
Freeware Utilities for Windows Administrators.

http://www.palmersoft.co.uk

 

[linney]

Something you could look at would be the recently released Microsoft Virtual PC. It is also an improved product since the release of its SP1 version.

Virtual PC
thread779-818502

Dual boot -- Use XP or Me. How to do it?
thread779-818544

http://www.petri.co.il/install_windows_98_after_windows_xp.htm

Dual boot to 98 after installing XP first
thread779-284874

HOW TO: Create a Multiple-Boot System in Windows XP (Q306559)

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q306/5/59.asp

http://www.Dougknox.com

Navigate to Win XP Tips and look for link to "Install 98/Me After XP is Installed".

 

[ss8]

Happy new year and many thanks for the hints/leads extended here to those who not only helped myself but also others consistently.

Being a bit surprised that few people seemed to present similar difficulty I had, I would still like to post some notes here I collected which might be useful to others doing similar things.

You probably run into my situation when you buy a PC system preloded with Win XP. The best you deserve is a recovery DVD or some 7 CDs (like mine from HP). This software however has been customized so that it 1) only runs on your hardware (w/o too much change of components), and 2) hardware preparation should be disabled; mine always partitions out a diagnostic area of 4.6 GB and install the system onto the following partition: it is possible to overwrite your 2nd HD if configured somehow.

For the above reason, a clean install of your own will would be fairly difficult. You may create some repair floppies and work around within Receovery console but I am not sure if you would succeed. Also, as a result, dual boot can be almost in vain without using a 3rd party boot manager software. That's because when you follow the norm (the MS way) you should have your Win98 ready before running the XP install, so that it will peak it up in the beginning. But firstly the recovery way may "erase" your W98 location, and/or the process is not transparent. I have reviewed both the "booting process" and many other work arounds, to find out that although mine fell into the "install W98 after XP" category it won't work well or at all: there's restriction(s) for that method, like both partition needs to be FAT32, etc. The normal way for XP to work is that during the install process, it needs to see that W98 info so that certain info can be written into the MBR/Bootsectors of that partition. This is NOT just a file or files which can replace: "HAL.DLL missing" etc. is simply the result of failure, not a hint. There may be situation on a case by case when the fix would work, but it is difficult for everybody to succeed with all types of combination of configurations. However, I found one method by calton1 in his post which I would say is worth trying: to finish installing the W98 (or else) and XP separately first and then on the third partition, re-install XP to include all the other two systems in the boot up list. when done, boot up the Xp you want and then block the 2nd XP.

For my own case, I do not have a separate standalone XP (or there'd be no problem) and perceivably the "2nd recovery" is going no where. But I would consider using the Boot-US software. The free version limits you to only one HD and so on. Still, worth trying. Originally, I tried to avoid using 3rd party's boot device, as they tend to complicate the situation with increasing boot failure once you changed the configuration; however, nothing is perfect. BTW, the "only" reason for me to pursue a dual boot has been that I have a scanner which is only fully supported by W98 (including the text recognition sw). Moneywise, I could either buy another scanner or XP, but you really wanted to utilize what you have in a smarter way until proven out of limit... Please correct if anything wrong but do hope it would benefit some people who wanted to try the same.

 

[wolluf]

ss8 - yes, recovery disks can be a pain in the backside if you want to 'do' anything with your PC. I hadn't realised boot-us free version didn't support second drives (think it used to - but I've been using licenced version for years so obviously haven't noticed).

Couple of other 'free' solutions occur
First has been mentioned by bcastner -

http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_9x.htm,

though you may need to customise that solution. Basically as long as you can create a file image of the win98 disk's boot sector (that's what bootsect.dos is), and have that image in the root of the boot drive, you can boot 98 from the XP menu by editing boot.ini. So that page on Doug Knox's site should have all you need to achieve this (you'll need to make 98 drive the boot drive, copy the XP boot files ntldr, ntdetect.com and boot.ini from the XP drive to the 98 drive after creating the bootsect.dos file and before running fixboot from recovery console. You'll also need to edit boot.ini on the 98 drive (leave XP one as is) to look like this:-

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
C:\="Microsoft Windows 98"

(you're basically moving the boot sector from the XP to 98 drive - though the XP will still boot on its own if its master in machine. The rdisk parameter needs changing from (0) to (1) because XP is now on second drive)

Second is not a real solution - its just using the bios settings to change the first boot device (from hard drive 1 to hard drive 2 and vice versa).

 

[ss8]

Wolluf: So nice to have your delibration here again.
A few clarifications please. That info-link procedure was the one I had tried earlier and did not yield a positive result. I did not really follow at the time that the conditions for the XP partiiton/drive to be 1) FAT, and 2) C:. And all that required to follow is to result in a working "bootsect.dos". I guess that is probably where my failure was from: the W98 install may not be able to write/create this modified file (or during the Fixboot stage)to the XP's C:\ dir as noted if the partition is not a FAT. Remember I mentioned that the recovery CD's always creates an NTFS based XP by hiding the HD preparation. This fact really limits so much we can do so that the W98 install may not even be able to see the C:\Windows.000 (which is supposed to be the XP on that FAT based location) in the very beginning? Am I correct on these? If so, I have little freedom even re-doing the XP and then W98 --- that made me hate this recovery thing the most. I understand that their intention was to let few users transfer the particular XP insatll to any other systems, and the 4.6 GB partition was designed for users' convenience to recover the system w/o using the CDs. But there was really no need to block the HD partition capability.

You said "Basically as long as you can create a file image of the win98 disk's boot sector (that's what bootsect.dos is), and have that image in the root of the boot drive, you can boot 98 from the XP menu by editing boot.ini." Would that mean that one can "copy" the .dos file (image?)at a later time to the XP's root dir, and where was this file first placed per the procedure? --- maybe I did not understand Doug's "conditions" correctly.

 

[wolluf]

Sorry - I may not have been as clear as I should have been.

Situation. You have restored XP to one drive (with its recovery & XP partitions). You have copied the files ntldr, ntdect.com & boot.ini from XP partition to a floppy drive. You have installed 98 to the other drive (with XP drive disconnected). You now have both drives connected - with the 98 drive as primary master. So, we want to create an XP boot sector on the 98 drive that will boot both operating systems.

1. Run the sequence on Doug Knox's site which creates a bootsect.dos file in root of C:

2. Copy the files ntldr, ntdetect.com and boot.ini from the floppy drive to the root of C:. Edit the boot.ini file as per my previous post (adding 98 entry and editing rdisk value) - but keep whatever value is in partition() - just change the rdisk value from 0 to 1 (I'm not sure if the recovery partition will make it partition(2) - but as long as you keep what's there, should be ok).

3. Boot into recovery console and run fixboot x: (where x: is the 98 drive as seen from recovery console).

Next time you boot machine, you should get menu for XP or 98, and both entries should work.

 

[linney]

If hard drive 1 with 98 has a C: partition and hard drive 2 has a C: partition (or may be that's been given to the Recovery Partition), things might get confusing with links from registry's, files, or other links coded to a C: drive.

I can't quite get my head around the possible combinations and risks, but it would help to know how the actual drive partition lettering is being involved when you hide drives from each other and then install operating systems while hidden, and then finally make both drives visible to each other again.

Am I worrying over nothing?

 

[ss8]

Linnery, you were probably not. I got some intermediate result which can be looked at a bit. But I found Wolluf's scheme attractive as it would not only help verify whether Doug Knox's limitations can be worked around to achieve more result or for different configuration, but would also prove some handling of certain critical files not in a blind way (who is where and how). For a complete round of trial it would take 1-2 hours collectively, but it should be worth it.

Here's the letter change situation before and after:

I. Letters before 2 HD connected:

1st HD (XP_recovery partition: none; XP System partition: C:\; CD ROM: D:\), set as master or single

2nd HD (W98 partition: C:\; Data partition: D:\; CD: E:\)
set as master or single

II. Letters after 2 HD connected/XP "repaired":

1st HD (XP with XP_recovery partition: none; System partition: C:\; CD ROM: D:\)

2nd HD (W98 partition: E:\; Data partition: F:\)

--- even though this HD was set to Primary Master!

The booting result is that it will boot right into XP without showing the list, which, however, is available from within the XP (--> C:\="Microsoft Windows" in addition to XP as default in the boot.ini).

I would say that I have followed Wolluf's steps closely. Without knowing the truth why exactly this does not work, I did find some stages a little bit unreliable/away from the norm:

1. Doug's procedure to create the .Dos file, asks for the W98 to be installed while XP partition is present(am I right?); that's when the "C:\Windows.000" is to be seen --- however mine had to be missing since I could only do this separately. Throughout his rest of steps, no ntldr etc files are manually copied over to W98, so I wonder if this is done somehow by the W98 install program? And, WHAT ELSE.

2. When the 2 HDs are connected and configued accordingly, the XP recovery console tool ONLY sees "1. D:\", instead of "C". When into the command mode, I could see that D: is XP and "C:" is still available (W98). I did "Fixboot C:" as Wolluf said, which I believe was created to the W98 root, but in Doug's situation, only one system install and it is the XP to log into. From there I am not so clear how to get to the (which) "C:\Windows (not C:\)" prompt as Doug wrote for executing the fixboot. Is this XP, W98? confusing.

I wish the above could be of a little bit use to Wolluf if he would not mind looking into it some further so that we can have a more detailed final trial stratedy. I hope the value of such investigation and experiments can be extended beyond the original intention itself --- just to set a dual boot system for which we already have at least a couple other solutions.

 

[linney]

What I am trying to say (badly) is that if you look at the registry of 98 it will have all its links pointing to a C: drive. If you look at the Registry of XP it too will have all its links pointing to C: drive. It might be a case of 2 into 1 wont go.

A boot manager is necessary to prevent the 2 sets of C: drive links clashing.

To quote you -

"The booting result is that it will boot right into XP without showing the list, which, however, is available from within the XP (--> C:\="Microsoft Windows" in addition to XP as default in the boot.ini)."

This is because 98 is E: XP is C:, even if you change to E:\="Microsoft Windows", I feel the system would die of fright with all the 98 Registry links pointing to XP via the incorrect registry links in 98.

Another complication...From the 98 Setup.txt -

"Also, if you are installing Windows 98 to a drive
other than C, Setup can require up to 25 MB of free
disk space on drive C for the system and log files
created during Setup."

The drive must be C: and the system Fat not Ntfs.

I'm as lost as anyone on this subject but feel you may be attempting the impossible (other than with a boot manager or some type of bios control switching). At least your having fun and learning a lot, like me. Let's hope you achieve the impossible and I'm completely wrong - again.

 

[wolluf]

Linney - if you install 98 and XP independently on separate drives, then set up a dual boot as I described above, both operating systems should appear to be on C: when they are booted (its only XP that might cause problem, but it shouldn't - famous last words, as I don't actually use the method I described nowadays! But I have set up similar situations with several o/s booting from boot.ini menu, and each of them actually were on C: (2k and XP seem to retain the system drive better than NT, which is more pot luck - but nobody uses NT any more so....)

 

[linney]

Wolluf,

Thanks for putting me straight, I am still learning (read confused) about drive letter assignments. I hope "ss8" tries your method and lets us know how it goes.

This quote from "Bcastner" helps me too -

"The drive letters are assigned to the primary partitions first, then to other partitions. The order which the drive letters are assigned is as follows: All the primary partitions on Disk 1 get the first letters (C:, D:, ...,etc.), followed by the primary partitions on Disk 2, then on Disk 3, ..., etc. The next set of drive letters will be assigned to all the logical partitions on Disk 1, then on Disk 2, Disk 3, ..., etc."

I take it to mean that if you boot to XP it will assign its drive as the real C: drive with the 98 drive being located as another drive letter.

And if you boot to 98 it will assign its drive as C:, with the XP drive remaining anonymous and unseen if NTFS, or assigned another drive letter if it was FAT32. Thus allaying my unfounded and incorrect assumptions. Thanks again and apologies for any confusion I caused to "ss8" and any others.


ss8,

For information only.

A free boot manager which allows you to choose which hard drive (unlimited) you boot from, using a bootable floppy to achieve this.

Smart boot manager

http://btmgr.webframe.org/index.php3?body=docs/user-guide.html

If you finally get 98 loaded, this program will allow you to see your NTFS drives from 98. You will need some caution using it as it shows you everything, including the super hidden meta data files.

Paragon NTFS for 9x (Also known as Ntfs for Win98) is designed to mount NTFS partitions under Windows operating systems as normal logical drives with appropriate drive letter.
• the full version mounts NTFS partitions for read and write operations.
• the demo version mounts NTFS partitions in read-only mode.

From time to time you see a full working free version on CD's supplied with Computer Magazines.

http://www.paragon-gmbh.com/n_ntfs.htm