Outlook and Word 3

[snootalope]

hello

I'm sure lots of people have wondered this same thing before, but i've never seen it posted.

Why the hell does Outlook and Word (as an email editor) use so much memeory combined?? It's rediculous!!! It's not so bad on a stand alone machine, but when you use it in a term serv environment, it adds up, and quick.

I've just noticed that 95% of my users sessions that mysteriously freeze up or slow to a crawl, relates to Outlook and Word. How do i know this? Well, using that taskmgr or term serv manager to kill the Outlook.exe and/or Winword.exe immediatly unfreezes their session and their fine..

I just don't get it. Outlook, ok I understand it's a busy program and 15k is just fine. But for a grammer/spell checker running in the background and NOT EVEN when you're typing a new message runs constantly at like 25k, it's stupid!!! You've gotta have 2gig on a server supporting 10 users just to let it run smooth! blaaa!!

Anyone got any ideas for a cure. I'm pist and i wanna go back to like outlook 97 cause it was so damn simple and small... arrgg..

sorry for venting
snooter

 

[misscrf]

I have not experienced the same problems. Has it always been this way for you? I only ask because when I had problems with applications and system processes eating up resources, I found out that a virus was causing it. If you think that might be the issue, download stinger.exe from McAfee. Its free, a quick download and takes about an hour or so to run. It will search and destroy viruses scripts and trojans. Your resources will improve dramatically if that is the case.
Otherwise I would check Microsoft KB because it could be an issue where there is a bug and you might want to do detect and repair for office/ word and outlook.


misscrf

Management is doing things right, leadership is doing the right things

 

[snootalope]

Yeah, it's always been like this. I think it's by design. I'm 100% positive there isn't a virus at work here. Got a virus scanner running 24/7 that updates it's sigs everyday.

I've been through kb article after article on this.. I've noticed this stuff since probably Outlook 2000, which would of been probably 4 years ago for me. I just thought they would of made the stuff a little more resource friendly.. WRONG

 

[fumei]

What do you expect from software that is, while extremely good and sophisticated, is essentially bloatware?

I once showed someone a new Word document. It had one word. "Hello." One word.

Then I showed what Word itself see. It covered 14 pages of CSS. !4 pages of text to parse. Now it is true that with modern processors, and relatively cheap RAM, it makes less of a difference. But still! One word and it takes 14 pages of instruction to do it.

For heavens's sake Microsoft Word takes 6 lines of code to make a single space. I have two very fast machines, witj huge ammount of RAN. For 90 percent of my writing I use NotePad, or EditPad. I format in Word beause I have many many styles. I use Eudora 3.0 because I want a mail client that does one thing - act as a mail client.

Alas though, we have become a thoroughly MS world





Gerry

 

[Madawc]

I think MS Word has become dominant, because it allows all of the different things that businesses use.

Where I work, we write specifications with numbering, 2.1.4.3.6 or whatever. On older software this was all done manually, but Word can be set to handle it automatically. I also find it useful to be able to insert tables, though I am sure a lot of people never use them.

The same applies to Autoshapes - only occasionally use them, some of you may never use them at all but they are very useful to some people. Especially since they can produce a diagram that everyone else in the building can read or even change, which wouldn't apply with charting software unless everyone had it, which is expenseive.

Regarding snootalope's original complaint - could his machines have been been turned into 'zombies' sending out the spam we all know and loath? I suppose (though it is not my area) that taking down Outlook would stop this, but only because Outlook is being abused.
It is a good idea anyway to follow misscrf's advice and get anti-virus software. The professional stuff would be well worth it, if you are a business (and if you can persuade your managers). Where I work, we got infested by MyDoom last year, which stopped Head Office functioning for a few hours. But the core business remained OK, because the firewall stopped it spreading any further or getting at stuff important to our customers.

Madawc Williams (East Anglia)

 

[misscrf]

The only reason I suggested stinger.exe is that it sometimes catches stuff that regular antivirus won't. The place I was working had McAfee, but when we downloaded the stinger, it found the sassar virus which McAfee had not found. It is a proactive search and destroy. It is not meant to be used as antivirus sotftware, just for one time thorough searches for viruses scripts and trojans. Good luck anyway!


misscrf

Management is doing things right, leadership is doing the right things

 

[fumei]

Yes, yes, absolutely do a full and complete virus check. Yes, yes it could very well be that. Absolutely. It probably is.

My issue was not with Word as an application (although it does have quirks). My issue was not with features in Word (although after many many years of working with Word from version 2.0, I still say they could remove over 90% of the features and 98% of people using it would never even know).

My comment was directly related to the original post. That post made direct comments on performance and memory/storage issues. Word (and Outlook) are wonderful programs but they deal with resources and memory like pigs at a trough. Version 6 of Word, if left DOING NOTHING, just a file open, would eventually take enough memory from RAM (allocating it for temp files)....that it would cause its own Operating System to die for lack of memory.

Ooooo, that is good programming.

Regarding the original post - yes, do as best a virus check as possible. Certainly system slow down can be indicative of viruses. Other suggestions:

1. Consider NOT using Word as the email editor. We originally did, but took it out as an option (using Policies) as it sucked up resources, and users had many complaints.

2. Depending on OS: Write some scripting to check "C:\Doc & Setting\username\Local Settings\Temp Internet Files\OLKxxx. Whenever a user opens an attachment from a message in Outlook, Outlook creates a COPY of the file in an "OLKxxx" folder. NOT a pointer, a real copy - full size and everything. These even show up in the Recent Files list in Ofice Applications. These can cause some resource oinking as Word will parse back through this folder on opening. If they are any files here, unless you really need them, dump the whole folder. Train users to not open attachments, ever. Save the attachment, then open it. This allows better virus checking (and better to check as part of the saving procedures). This also acts as version control. NOTE: if you attach a file to an Outlook message - say C:\test\Thisdoc.doc. The document is attached. However, before you send it, you remember a change must be made. The message is in front of you. You click on the attachment, open it, and make the changes. You get asked if you want to save the changes. You click Yes. Guess what? Your original file (c:\test\Thisdoc.doc) was NOT changed, or saved. C:\doc&settings\username\blahblah\OLKxxx\Thisdoc was changed. Maybe they have fixed things in 2003, but this has been a major headache in 2002. Had one user with 4 Gb of files in a bunch of Temporary Internet Files\OLKxxx folders. It actually forced Windows to make the swapping PageFile smaller.

Gerry

 

[snootalope]

Let me just get a little somethin clear here.. I've got a very clean environment running. My inhouse Exchange machine is locked down tighter than a nats a$$, and each of term servs have a virus monitor running 24/7. Plus, before my users even see their email, it's already been through 3, yes 3, points of virus scanning. Security on the machine is locked down to the max as well so I know there hasn't been any tampering.

Before I even came the job i'm at now, i setup a similar environment and I noticed the same performace issues with outlook and word. Maybe it is the attachments that come into it.. I don't know, but I wish I did cause I'd fix the damn thing in a heart beat

 

[fumei]

Well, as suggested, stop using Word as the email editor, if possible.

Check on the PageFile size on the users machines.

Lastly, and I have found this can make a difference if the main use of the machine is Outlook and Word. Believe it or not, switching the Application Response to Background Services (rather than Applications) can help. Worth a try anyway. The issue is that Outlook and Word as a a email package do a LOT of chatter between themselves. This is essentially using background services - svchost.exe does a lot of traffic.

Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance > Application Response > Optimize for Background Services.

As far virus checking...ha! I work for a major IT department, and we are sitting behind multi-layered, very intense, security. Until two years we were NOT a Microsoft environment, and we never had viruses. We are fully Microsoft now (including one server that has 128 Xeon processors...) and the office tech guys are now known as "patch boys". That is all they do, and we constantly have viruses that almost make it, and some that do. I predict this will never end. Do not assume your 3 scans will ALWAYS get everything. Check locally anyway, as this is a good idea. Do your virus check, try changing Application response, and then.....hmmmmmmmm.

Are there services and/or background applications running you do not really need? Also, misscrf asked the question "has it always been this way?" Good question. Has it?

Gerry

 

[snootalope]

Gerry (and misscrf), Yes, as long as I can remember I've seen it where Word and Outlook suck up alot of resources. My post was more of a reality proglem than just some 'switch this' issue. I'm sure it'd take more than just a little change to fix the entire issue.

I guess the easiest way to fix this problem is just don't use Word as an editor. I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

snoots

 

[snootalope]

9/8 - The problem persists.. Once ending CTFMON.exe, Outlook.exe, and Winword.exe everything is fine with the users term serv session. Again, although one users sessions is slow, the rest of the people on that same machine are NOT affected.

There's gotta be a reason these apps are doing this and the problems got be the software. I'm running dual 3.4 xeons with 3 gig of ram each. Each machine only houses about 20 users.

Any ideas besides removing word as an editor?
snoots

 

[fumei]

Nope. Again, we used to use Word as email editor, but do not any longer.

I have to say, though, with that kind of horsepower, and that many users - I am more in agreement with you. Something is not quite right. Even with the bloatedness of Outlook and Word, those resources should be more than sufficient to handle it.

Do you have anything differnt about the location of users normal.dot?

Are you pushing down a corporate normal.dot?

Do you have ANY global templates loading into Word (other than normal.dot)? Do not assume, check this one.

Gerry

 

[snootalope]

1. Nothing abnormal about the users normal.dot. All of them are kept in their network connected home drive.

2. Nope, not pushing the file..

3. Global templates loading into word... not sure. Can you give me a little more details? We do have templates setup for all users to use, but it's not like they're loaded automatically when they start the program. They have to actually browse to the them.

I'll keep diggin around and see if i can find anything...

Thanks
snoots

 

[fumei]

Check the c:\program files\ Microsoft \Office \Startup folder. This is the application startup folder, NOT the Document and Settings\username\blahblah\startup folder.

It should be empty (if there are no startup globals).

Check, in Word, Tools > Templates and Addins. Are there any listed templates? Are any of them checked? How do your users browse for the templates you do use?

Check for any COM addins. From Help:

1. If you have already added the COM Add-Ins command to the Tools menu, skip to Step 6.
2. On the Tools menu, click Customize, and then click the Commands tab.
3. In the Categories box, click Tools.
4. Drag COM Add-Ins from the Commands box over the Tools menu. When the Tools menu displays the menu commands, point to the location where you want the COM Add-Ins command to appear on the menu, and then release the mouse button.
5. Click Close.
6. On the Tools menu, click COM Add-Ins and do any of the following:
To load an add-in, select the check box next to the add-in name in the Add-Ins available list. If the add-in you want isn't in the Add-Ins available list, click Add, locate the add-in, and then click OK.

To unload an add-in from memory but keep its name in the list, clear the check box next to the add-in name.

To remove an add-in from the list and also from the list of registered add-ins in the registry file, select its name, and then click Remove.


Gerry

 

[snootalope]

Thanks man, I'll check all that out. I was just going through some of my users profiles and I noticed alot of 'Outlprnt' outlprnt1, outlprnt2, etc.. files in each of their %profile%\application data\microsoft\outlook folders.

I tried searching M$'s site for that but couldn't find a definition or function description of those files. Do you know?

I know I deleted the ones with numbers on them in the past cause they act like temp files. ???

snoots

 

[fumei]

Ouchcheewawa. You need to do a serious clean up.

I will also bet that you users open Word attachments from inside email messages.

DO NOT DO THIS. Save attachments, and open from locally. Opening from within the message itself create real files, not temp files, but real files. This can clog badly.

Look through username IE "tem[p files" and try and find ANY folders that start witg OLK, such as OLK70Jt9...whatever. If there an files here, get rid if them.

Unfortunately this will also cause errors if the users have been opening attachments from inside email. The file is added to recent file lists. Bummer. While I have no objection to the idea that users can open attachment files directly from message, the fact that it makes full copies that are no ideoendent of the actual file (if saved) is bad bad deign. It is confusing, and sucks uop resources.

Check out any OLK folders and delete them.

Gerry

 

[snootalope]

Thanks Gerry.

I did a search on a server that is full of term serv users. I cam back with 196 OLK**** shortcut folders. Shortcuts? Anyway, they point at temp internet folders. I suppose I'm ok to delete those right?

Also, I did the same search on the server that holds the users profiles. It didn't find near as many, like 21 or something. Of course that's because I'm preventing the copying of any temp folders/files.

Plus, doing a search on my term serv I found this bat file called Olk98usr.cmd, it's in C:\winnt\application compatiblity scripts\logon\templates and this is what's inside of it:

Rem
Rem Create directories for application specific data in the
Rem user's home directory.
Rem

call TsMkUDir "%RootDrive%\#OFFUDIR#"
call TsMkUDir "%RootDrive%\#OFFUDIR#\Templates"
call TsMkUDir "%RootDrive%\%MY_DOCUMENTS%"

Rem
Rem Copy the forms directory so that Outlook can use Word as the editor
Rem

If Exist "%RootDrive%\Windows\Forms" Goto Skip2
If Not Exist "%SystemRoot%\Forms" Goto Skip2
Xcopy "%SystemRoot%\Forms" "%RootDrive%\Windows\Forms" /e /i >Nul: 2>&1
:Skip2

Rem
Rem Copy Custom.dic file to user's directory
Rem

if "#OFFUDIR#" == "Office95" goto O95
If Exist "%RootDrive%\#OFFUDIR#\Custom.Dic" Goto Skip4
If Not Exist "#INSTDIR#\Office\Custom.Dic" Goto Skip4
Copy "#INSTDIR#\Office\Custom.Dic" "%RootDrive%\#OFFUDIR#\Custom.Dic" >Nul: 2>&1
goto Skip4

:O95
If Not Exist "%RootDrive%\Office95\Custom.dic" Copy Nul: "%RootDrive%\Office95\Custom.dic" > Nul: 2>&1

:Skip4

Is that anything i should be checking into? I've never heard of that file and I sure the hell didn't make it..

snoots

 

[fumei]

Look inside those "shortcut folders". I am willing to bet that you will find, not just shortcut files (.lnk files at say 1K), but REAL files that are not shortcuts - real files that have the same size as the originals). Get rid of them. Dump 'em. This is particularly poor design on Microsoft's part. It is stupid in fact, but there you go.

As for that command batch file...hmmmm. You may (or may not) need this if you still use Word as the editor. Try moving it away, and see what happens. if you are not going to use Word, I would suggest moving it (but storing it just in case) and not letting it run.

My essential point is that Word and Outlook clutter the system with files, and pointers. And often REAL files. I had a user who always opened her attachments within Outlook. By the time I got around to cleaning up, those OLKxxxx folders had accumulated 6 Gb of files. NOT pointers or shortcuts, real files. Outlook does that.

Which is a serious concern for version control. If you attach a file, then before you send it, open that attachment from within youe message, make changes, then click OK when it asks if you want to save changes....I have made this point in this forum before.

The changes are made to the file Outlook creates when you open an attachment from within a message. It asks for a save, but it does NOT save the changes to your original. It saves the changes to the OLKxxx folder file.

Sorry, ranting again.


Gerry