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MYSQL vs ACCESS WHICH IS MORE POWERFUL 2
- Thread starter jwanyoike
- Start date
I've responded to the same question in that thread as well... as to VB and C++, I'd say C++ is hands down better in the hands of a skilled programmer, but VB will get your application out the door faster and likely still be quite good.
-Rob
-Rob
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1
- #4
CajunCenturion
Programmer
As far as between MySQL and Access, there is no doubt in my mind that MySQL is more robust and scaleable, and is platform agnostic.
As far as VB and C++, in the hands of a skilled progrmmer, both will work quite well, although there are some things in C++ that provide capabilities that simply don't exist in VB, including pointers, unions, and more and complete support object oriented programming, to name a few.
I agree with skiflyer in that VB is more of a RAD (Rapid Application Development) and C++ is. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
As far as VB and C++, in the hands of a skilled progrmmer, both will work quite well, although there are some things in C++ that provide capabilities that simply don't exist in VB, including pointers, unions, and more and complete support object oriented programming, to name a few.
I agree with skiflyer in that VB is more of a RAD (Rapid Application Development) and C++ is. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
CajunCenturion
Programmer
I agree with MySQL over Access.
I don't have quite such a strict set of rules for the choice of programming language. Basically I do the following:
1. List all of the languages that you and whatever available resources you have at your disposal are capable of doing the job in both effectively and efficiently.
2. Choose the lanugage from that list the leads to the most profitable outcome, both short and long term. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
I don't have quite such a strict set of rules for the choice of programming language. Basically I do the following:
1. List all of the languages that you and whatever available resources you have at your disposal are capable of doing the job in both effectively and efficiently.
2. Choose the lanugage from that list the leads to the most profitable outcome, both short and long term. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
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- #6
SemperFiDownUnda
Instructor
the point is that all these are tools. As with the rules of tools you use the best one for the job. Some jobs have requirements that better suit one tool over another but no one tools is better in all cases than another.
When should you use access? When maintance of a SQL engine is not possible. MySQL takes a bit more knowledge to use and a bit harder to get trained in. If you don't need the advanced features of a database engine like MySQL then don't use it. To boot you could also say that Access is now better than MySQL when you look at it. Why? People equate Access with the database engine JET. Access is not JET, Older Access is a front end for JET. Access 2000 is a front end for SQLServer (MSDE) or Jet, your choice. So seeing you can swap out JET for SQLServer and get the benifits of a real Client Server SQL engine then MySQL's benifits start deminishing.
As for C++ and VB agian look at the job at hand. If you need to do some complicated things then C++ MAY be better but many factors need to be concidered.
Saying use C++ because it is portible is a farce in most cases because there are features in different C++ complires that other compilers don't support also if your app is not needed to run on multiple platforms then who cares.
Saying C++ is more stable than VB is a lie to. The code that gets writen dictates how stable a program is 99% of the time. I agree there are alot more Bad VB programmers out there then C++ but that doesn't make the language less effective just means there are more bad programmers out there for VB. VB can be as stable and as fast as C++ in many cases but it depends on the level of the programmer.
You have to look at so many factors when choicing your tools that to blindly say X is better than Y is in most cases being grossly ignorant or biased without cause. Being a MCSD MCT MCDBA with experience with Sybase, Oracle, C++, JAVA, VB, (and many other languages, databases and tools like COBOL, VSAM, ADA, ADABase (not related to ADA), FOCUS, Pearl
When should you use access? When maintance of a SQL engine is not possible. MySQL takes a bit more knowledge to use and a bit harder to get trained in. If you don't need the advanced features of a database engine like MySQL then don't use it. To boot you could also say that Access is now better than MySQL when you look at it. Why? People equate Access with the database engine JET. Access is not JET, Older Access is a front end for JET. Access 2000 is a front end for SQLServer (MSDE) or Jet, your choice. So seeing you can swap out JET for SQLServer and get the benifits of a real Client Server SQL engine then MySQL's benifits start deminishing.
As for C++ and VB agian look at the job at hand. If you need to do some complicated things then C++ MAY be better but many factors need to be concidered.
Saying use C++ because it is portible is a farce in most cases because there are features in different C++ complires that other compilers don't support also if your app is not needed to run on multiple platforms then who cares.
Saying C++ is more stable than VB is a lie to. The code that gets writen dictates how stable a program is 99% of the time. I agree there are alot more Bad VB programmers out there then C++ but that doesn't make the language less effective just means there are more bad programmers out there for VB. VB can be as stable and as fast as C++ in many cases but it depends on the level of the programmer.
You have to look at so many factors when choicing your tools that to blindly say X is better than Y is in most cases being grossly ignorant or biased without cause. Being a MCSD MCT MCDBA with experience with Sybase, Oracle, C++, JAVA, VB, (and many other languages, databases and tools like COBOL, VSAM, ADA, ADABase (not related to ADA), FOCUS, Pearl
psemianonymous
Programmer
I'd like to add that MS Access is platform-independent--
So long as all your platforms run Windows (which they do).
On the other hand, if you have posters of Linus Torvalds and Richard M Stallman hanging up on your wall, you don't really have a choice, do you? Continue drinking out of your penguin mug and typing on your DVORAK keyboard, you rebel.
As with all things, the best choice is what works. If you're not going to be running the Google search engine (which doesn't really use a database anyway), you don't have to look at performance. If you hate Microsoft, you don't have to use their products (at least until that new legislation passes, and at that time you WILL then have to use Microsoft).
I'd personally go with whatever you have more experience with. If you have no experience in any of the four (VB/C++, Access/MySQL), then go with the easiest two (VB, Access/JET). What no one will tell you is that C++ is an awful way to build a user interface. What no one else will tell you is that MySQL (like all things Linux) takes time to properly appreciate--say, several weeks of figuring out how to use it and properly secure it. Do you have a linux box running? No? Add another month to the tally.
Not that I have anything against Linux...it is simply a new world to enter and thus, an entire new body of knowledge to absorb.
So long as all your platforms run Windows (which they do).
On the other hand, if you have posters of Linus Torvalds and Richard M Stallman hanging up on your wall, you don't really have a choice, do you? Continue drinking out of your penguin mug and typing on your DVORAK keyboard, you rebel.
As with all things, the best choice is what works. If you're not going to be running the Google search engine (which doesn't really use a database anyway), you don't have to look at performance. If you hate Microsoft, you don't have to use their products (at least until that new legislation passes, and at that time you WILL then have to use Microsoft).
I'd personally go with whatever you have more experience with. If you have no experience in any of the four (VB/C++, Access/MySQL), then go with the easiest two (VB, Access/JET). What no one will tell you is that C++ is an awful way to build a user interface. What no one else will tell you is that MySQL (like all things Linux) takes time to properly appreciate--say, several weeks of figuring out how to use it and properly secure it. Do you have a linux box running? No? Add another month to the tally.
Not that I have anything against Linux...it is simply a new world to enter and thus, an entire new body of knowledge to absorb.
mySQL runs just fine on my XP Box, as well as on my Redhat box.
From never using it to having it up and running such that I could toy around with phpMyAdmin()... about 5 minutes.
To having it interfacing with PHP (which I am experienced in), about 6 minutes.
-Rob
From never using it to having it up and running such that I could toy around with phpMyAdmin()... about 5 minutes.
To having it interfacing with PHP (which I am experienced in), about 6 minutes.
-Rob
petersJazz
Programmer
Choosing between MySQL and Access is not very kind. Both are very unexpensive but have to many limitations.
I understand that you dont afford Oracle or MS SQL Server but there are other alternative, like Mimer SQL ( That is a database handler that supports most of what you would like: transaction handling, unions, exists/not exists, stored procedures.
I understand that you dont afford Oracle or MS SQL Server but there are other alternative, like Mimer SQL ( That is a database handler that supports most of what you would like: transaction handling, unions, exists/not exists, stored procedures.
Ok, I have to admit I'm a little surprised. When I first read this question I expected MySql to take a beating. Having read the answers that have been posted, I have to agree with most of what's been said. I think that MySql is far more powerful than Access, and I'll go a step further and venture into the issue of interfacing.
That brings up, to me, the question of tools at your disposal. I don't think that you can venture into a debate of MySql versus Access without adressing PHP versus ASP. I know that MySql can and often does run on XP, IIS, etc. The reality is that if you're using it for a serious applicaiton you are probably running it on a Linux server. That means you're probably using PHP as an interface, rather than ASP if you're running Access. To me, there is simply no comparison. PHP is so much more open, and so much more adaptable, that even if Access were a better database, (which it isn't), I don't think anyone can say that Access/ASP is better than MySql/PHP. It's not even close.
That brings up, to me, the question of tools at your disposal. I don't think that you can venture into a debate of MySql versus Access without adressing PHP versus ASP. I know that MySql can and often does run on XP, IIS, etc. The reality is that if you're using it for a serious applicaiton you are probably running it on a Linux server. That means you're probably using PHP as an interface, rather than ASP if you're running Access. To me, there is simply no comparison. PHP is so much more open, and so much more adaptable, that even if Access were a better database, (which it isn't), I don't think anyone can say that Access/ASP is better than MySql/PHP. It's not even close.
SemperFiDownUnda
Instructor
ASP with MSDE is fine though.
People have to remember ACCESS is not a database. It is a front end to a database. Just as Star Office can work with word documents (even better than word) Acess can open JET and in the case of Access 2000 interface with MSDE which is SQL with some user connection limits.
Every major project I have been on has used correlated subqueries and atleast nested subqueries. A feature that MySQL does NOT support. For this reason alone it takes a big hit.
for a good comparision of MySQL, Oracle8, and PostgreSQL
Being cross platform is really not a huge issue except to the open source community. How many organisations go "Hey all our apps on those windows servers have to be moved to UNIX tomorrow....you did develop them to be platform independent didn't you?!?!?!"
Even with "Platform Independant" items tend to be platform dependant once you right the system. Honestly I don't know any customers that when you say "I have to add 30% more to the cost of this project because we want to have it be easily ported to another platform if needed in the future" and have them go "Sure!"
Most systems life span doesn't go over 5 years from start to finish ....err I'm ranting now about a differnt topic.
Remember too that the cost factor isn't a issue with MSDE and if you need to scale then you really should look at a product like SQL server and in this case that is just paying for more licenses with the same functionality 99% of the cases and more in the other 1%
People have to remember ACCESS is not a database. It is a front end to a database. Just as Star Office can work with word documents (even better than word) Acess can open JET and in the case of Access 2000 interface with MSDE which is SQL with some user connection limits.
Every major project I have been on has used correlated subqueries and atleast nested subqueries. A feature that MySQL does NOT support. For this reason alone it takes a big hit.
for a good comparision of MySQL, Oracle8, and PostgreSQL
Being cross platform is really not a huge issue except to the open source community. How many organisations go "Hey all our apps on those windows servers have to be moved to UNIX tomorrow....you did develop them to be platform independent didn't you?!?!?!"
Even with "Platform Independant" items tend to be platform dependant once you right the system. Honestly I don't know any customers that when you say "I have to add 30% more to the cost of this project because we want to have it be easily ported to another platform if needed in the future" and have them go "Sure!"
Most systems life span doesn't go over 5 years from start to finish ....err I'm ranting now about a differnt topic.
Remember too that the cost factor isn't a issue with MSDE and if you need to scale then you really should look at a product like SQL server and in this case that is just paying for more licenses with the same functionality 99% of the cases and more in the other 1%
CajunCenturion
Programmer
Good link SemperFiDownUnda, except that they didn't add a cost comparision section. And I'm going to start taking a look at PostgreSQL in the near future.
Your points about platform independant systems is valid, especially when in the context of an internal IT department. However, as companies become larger, and physically more spread out, even becoming multi-national, the ability to control/enforce client platforms specs decreases. Also, third party software developers can leverage platform agnostic routines (provided no violations of copyright, trade secrets, etc) between projects, and finally, when in Product development, the issues of platform independance take on a more pronounced role. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Your points about platform independant systems is valid, especially when in the context of an internal IT department. However, as companies become larger, and physically more spread out, even becoming multi-national, the ability to control/enforce client platforms specs decreases. Also, third party software developers can leverage platform agnostic routines (provided no violations of copyright, trade secrets, etc) between projects, and finally, when in Product development, the issues of platform independance take on a more pronounced role. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
SemperFiDownUnda
Instructor
is the subqueries supported anywhere in the SQL statement or just the FROM clause? Straight Subqueries I'm not fussed about but Corrilated sub queries is a strong issue.
CajunCenturion I take your point and if I'm on a project that is going to be commercialised then I agree but then I look at it this way. Sites generally say that they use a particular database. Designing systems for multiple sites normally means being flexible with the databases you work with and not so much saying "you will use database X"
When designing system I do try to introduce a data abstraction layer if possible and if the business decides to change DBs then the DAL just has to be changed. I know many sites that drop products all together because their standards are Oracle or some other database and the product they are looking at does not support it. This tends to be just as important as what OS it runs on. Locking a app into a single database can be just as dangerous as locking them into a platform and even more so. As I know a few sites around me that have both windows, linux and sun servers but they all still only use Oracle as database even though in many instances running on another database would appear cheaper and just as effective from the surface.
CajunCenturion I take your point and if I'm on a project that is going to be commercialised then I agree but then I look at it this way. Sites generally say that they use a particular database. Designing systems for multiple sites normally means being flexible with the databases you work with and not so much saying "you will use database X"
When designing system I do try to introduce a data abstraction layer if possible and if the business decides to change DBs then the DAL just has to be changed. I know many sites that drop products all together because their standards are Oracle or some other database and the product they are looking at does not support it. This tends to be just as important as what OS it runs on. Locking a app into a single database can be just as dangerous as locking them into a platform and even more so. As I know a few sites around me that have both windows, linux and sun servers but they all still only use Oracle as database even though in many instances running on another database would appear cheaper and just as effective from the surface.
CajunCenturion
Programmer
You'll get no arguement from me. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
I'll tell ya, I don't know the lingo all that well, and they're a bit vague, but here's the press release...
-Rob
-Rob
Guest_imported
New member
- Jan 1, 1970
- 0
You have to make the distinction you mean JET not ACCESS. ACCESS is only a front end technically and it now supports the replacement for JET which is MSDE which is not only freely distributable but is SQL 7 that has been "Tuned" (I love that term) for 5 connections. Of which it becomes a good option for many web type applications. I'm not talking big apps but intranets etc that have a few users. Even though it is "Tuned" to 5 users it won't break when you hit 6 or 600 connections....just performance drops .....through through the floor.
I doubt there is anyone that would say JET is good for any serious database and "Heavy duty" means different things to different people. To me SQL server isn't heavy duty to me. Heavy Duty to me is multi terrabyte databases and entails alot more than most database systems to include need for realtime redundancy systems, OLAP services, etc. In which in my opinion MySQL isn't in the ball park either.
Sorry for preaching...its just that often when microsoft products are brought up agianst anything opensourcy people jump to one side of the fence or the other. Me I like to be in the middle and pick the right tool for the right job. And if I have a single user stand alone application that isn't mission critical then guess what....as much as I don't like it on a conseptual level ACCESS does get concideration. Actually now I impliment ACCESS with linked tables and run the database in MSDE. The user can then play in ACCESS while I know the data is secure. Best of both worlds.
I doubt there is anyone that would say JET is good for any serious database and "Heavy duty" means different things to different people. To me SQL server isn't heavy duty to me. Heavy Duty to me is multi terrabyte databases and entails alot more than most database systems to include need for realtime redundancy systems, OLAP services, etc. In which in my opinion MySQL isn't in the ball park either.
Sorry for preaching...its just that often when microsoft products are brought up agianst anything opensourcy people jump to one side of the fence or the other. Me I like to be in the middle and pick the right tool for the right job. And if I have a single user stand alone application that isn't mission critical then guess what....as much as I don't like it on a conseptual level ACCESS does get concideration. Actually now I impliment ACCESS with linked tables and run the database in MSDE. The user can then play in ACCESS while I know the data is secure. Best of both worlds.
SemperFiDownUnda:
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Semperfi
I agree with what you've said, but I'm not able to apply it to this discussion... perhaps I'm failing to understand, but given the similar "heavy duty" failings of both systems... in which case is Access/Jet the better tool for the job when compared with mySQL?
Both perform basically the same functionality, both are freely distributable (unless you want to use the Access front end). The only win I see for access is your comment about the user being able to play with the access front end... and depending on what you need, mySQL certainlly has those front end tools written for it as well.
I guess I'm just a little confused, it seems to me mySQL is by far a heavier duty database than Jet, and yet it function in the same place Jet does, but like you said, it drops through the floor after a dozen or so users... why limit your app like that? I don't care how small the business, I can't imagine selling them an app and saying, but if you grow much past 10 users, this is going to be a dog. Is the front end of access really all you're gaining? (In which case I'd point out sqlYog and phpMyAdmin to a lesser extent)
-Rob
-Rob
I agree with what you've said, but I'm not able to apply it to this discussion... perhaps I'm failing to understand, but given the similar "heavy duty" failings of both systems... in which case is Access/Jet the better tool for the job when compared with mySQL?
Both perform basically the same functionality, both are freely distributable (unless you want to use the Access front end). The only win I see for access is your comment about the user being able to play with the access front end... and depending on what you need, mySQL certainlly has those front end tools written for it as well.
I guess I'm just a little confused, it seems to me mySQL is by far a heavier duty database than Jet, and yet it function in the same place Jet does, but like you said, it drops through the floor after a dozen or so users... why limit your app like that? I don't care how small the business, I can't imagine selling them an app and saying, but if you grow much past 10 users, this is going to be a dog. Is the front end of access really all you're gaining? (In which case I'd point out sqlYog and phpMyAdmin to a lesser extent)
-Rob
-Rob
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