i am thinking about making a career change into the computer field. i have some expience with them, and truly enjoy working with them. i recently toured a school that offered the three microsoft certs.(ending with a msce) the school lasts 6 months and costs $22,714. no they don't guarantee a job, but i have met with the faculty and several students, and they assure me finding a job at 50k isn't a problem. i live outside of philly in wilmington, delaware. i guess what i am asking is, is that investment worth it? is the future of a msce bright in this region? and is it all to good to be true?
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msce certification: isit worth it? 1
- Thread starter barkeep41
- Start date
How much experience do you have? If your looking to get into the computer field I would suggest go for an entry level job and find out what you like doing. You might like networks now but in a year you might want to switch to programming. Then the MCSE is not going to be the right certification. Find out what you really want to do with computers then go for the right certification for that. You might even get the company you work for to pay towards it.
Getting certifications for the sake of having them and to try get your first job is not the best thing. Experience is what is need IMHO.
Find out what you like doing before spending $$$'s.
Getting certifications for the sake of having them and to try get your first job is not the best thing. Experience is what is need IMHO.
Find out what you like doing before spending $$$'s.
barkeep41,
dyarwood's advice is good, be sure that you want to be a sysadmin before getting certified as a sysadmin.
If you're sure that MCSE is what you want, shop around for schools. That number seems a bit high to me. I'm currently in school, a 9 month (part-time) course that's going to cover Network+, Security+, Linux+, MCSA, MCSE, and CCNA, including books and exams, for $10,000.
You might be able to find something similar if you really look.
Wishdiak
dyarwood's advice is good, be sure that you want to be a sysadmin before getting certified as a sysadmin.
If you're sure that MCSE is what you want, shop around for schools. That number seems a bit high to me. I'm currently in school, a 9 month (part-time) course that's going to cover Network+, Security+, Linux+, MCSA, MCSE, and CCNA, including books and exams, for $10,000.
You might be able to find something similar if you really look.
Wishdiak
- Thread starter
- #4
thanks so much for your kind replies!!! i really don't know which way to go, be it programing or networking. my real concern is the job market and the better fit. please keep the advice comming, i'm all "ears". i have talked to computer people at my "real" job, and each one has defended his niche, be it the oracle,cisco, or microsoft folks. i really just don't know which way to go. thanks again for all your help.
barkeep41,
It's hard to know exactly what the job market is like in other parts of the country, or what it will be like anywhere in a year or more.
I personally enjoy doing sysadmin work. I enjoy building networks and getting computers to talk to each other, and having them work harmoniously with users.
If you enjoy it, then persuing MCSE would probably be a good fit for you. In my opinion it's more worthwhile to have a job that you enjoy, even if it pays less, than one that you resent.
Wishdiak
It's hard to know exactly what the job market is like in other parts of the country, or what it will be like anywhere in a year or more.
I personally enjoy doing sysadmin work. I enjoy building networks and getting computers to talk to each other, and having them work harmoniously with users.
If you enjoy it, then persuing MCSE would probably be a good fit for you. In my opinion it's more worthwhile to have a job that you enjoy, even if it pays less, than one that you resent.
Wishdiak
I know I'm coming a little late to the party; but to me, $22K for only three certs (MCP/MCSA/MCSE, I assume) sounds very steep... That's only seven tests and you could, if you have a little gumption, do it yourself... but with self study, I'd allow 7-9 months to pace yourself over the new stuff...
For less money you might be able to get a Computer-related degree (part time at a state university).
If you want a taste of programming versus network administration versus server administration versus desktop support versus help desk versus database administration (and the list goes on!), why not offer to tag along with them as they do their daily routine... spend a day or two shadowing each of your collegues to try to get a flavor of the job...
As far as the self-study, there have been many paths recommended... as you're just getting started, you will want to go here[link] and from there you can look up what each certificate is about... there are Microsoft certificates for a variety of areas and each one is better than the last (as long as you line them up in the right order)...
Good luck!!
JTB
Have Certs, Will Travel
"A knight without armour in a [cyber] land."
For less money you might be able to get a Computer-related degree (part time at a state university).
If you want a taste of programming versus network administration versus server administration versus desktop support versus help desk versus database administration (and the list goes on!), why not offer to tag along with them as they do their daily routine... spend a day or two shadowing each of your collegues to try to get a flavor of the job...
As far as the self-study, there have been many paths recommended... as you're just getting started, you will want to go here[link] and from there you can look up what each certificate is about... there are Microsoft certificates for a variety of areas and each one is better than the last (as long as you line them up in the right order)...
Good luck!!
JTB
Have Certs, Will Travel
"A knight without armour in a [cyber] land."
Overclocker
Technical User
Barkeep41,
The recruiters at the school I attended fed me the same line of a 50k+ a year job, and I took the bait, hook, line, and sinker. Now after 2 years of contract networking experience when I send a resume in, I immediately get a phone call. Then I go to the interview where I more than prove that I can do the job......only to find out it's only paying $10-$12 an hour. I guess what I'm saying is please please please do a lot of background research before deciding to spend a chunk of change only to find out later that you're wishing you stayed where you were.
This probably isn't what you want to hear, but it's the harsh reality.
"If time travel were possible, I'd go back and choose NOT to attend SCD
The recruiters at the school I attended fed me the same line of a 50k+ a year job, and I took the bait, hook, line, and sinker. Now after 2 years of contract networking experience when I send a resume in, I immediately get a phone call. Then I go to the interview where I more than prove that I can do the job......only to find out it's only paying $10-$12 an hour. I guess what I'm saying is please please please do a lot of background research before deciding to spend a chunk of change only to find out later that you're wishing you stayed where you were.
This probably isn't what you want to hear, but it's the harsh reality.
"If time travel were possible, I'd go back and choose NOT to attend SCD
- Thread starter
- #8
Just had a look on TrainingCamp website for their prices. For £8000 you got MCSA & MCSE & MCDBA i think. Don't know the exchange rate but the timing of that course is about 3 weeks. It is a boot camp and is designed for people with experience but gives you some idea of pricing. TrainingCamp also have a US site i believe if you want to research US pricing.
barkeep41,
If you're still serious about persuing the MCSE certification, start checking out the job opportunities in your area. Check in the Sunday paper, online job search sites like Monster.com, etc., and see if there is a demand in your area for admins with MCSE, expecially ones without much admin experience.
In the local job market here, I may be able to get a job paying $50k once I'm done with school, or an equivalent contract position, but that may not be the case there.
Wishdiak
If you're still serious about persuing the MCSE certification, start checking out the job opportunities in your area. Check in the Sunday paper, online job search sites like Monster.com, etc., and see if there is a demand in your area for admins with MCSE, expecially ones without much admin experience.
In the local job market here, I may be able to get a job paying $50k once I'm done with school, or an equivalent contract position, but that may not be the case there.
Wishdiak
-
1
- #11
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
barkeep,
I would agree with everyone here and tell you to be sure that sysadmin work is what you want to do before you drop a chunk of money on your MCSE. The trick when getting into this field, is to not only find something that pays well, but to find something that you enjoy doing. If you end up only doing it for the money, you will end up hating the job.
The price you stated sounds VERY high to me. The place that I'm taking my tests (they also do training as well) offers an MCSE package for something like $7k-8k (Gets you MCP, MCSA, and MCSE, as well as A+).
I would assume some difference in price across the country (I'm in California) but almost triple the price is a bit much. You'll deffinetly want to check the prices at other schools.
Overclocker,
Don't be discouraged. When I worked for an ISP we have people with CCNA, MCSE, etc answering the phones in Tech Support because that was the only way to get in the door. We also have 2 PhDs and 3 lawyers who had passed the bar working in Tech Support. They were all working in Tech Support because it was a way to get into the company, in order to move somewhere else within the company later.
When moving to a full time (non-contract) position, sometimes you have to start at the bottom. It took me 4 years of lower paying jobs to be able to get my self into a higher paying position, even though I could have easily handled the positions years ago. (Granted the .com bubble bursting didn't exactly help.)
An MCSE will give you an edge getting in the door, however it is no replacement for years of experience. 99% of employers will take someone with a few years experience and no MCSE over someone with an MCSE and no experience. You also need to remember that with the .com bubble burst that we had a few years ago, we have a lot more people looking for tech jobs then we have positions for.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
I would agree with everyone here and tell you to be sure that sysadmin work is what you want to do before you drop a chunk of money on your MCSE. The trick when getting into this field, is to not only find something that pays well, but to find something that you enjoy doing. If you end up only doing it for the money, you will end up hating the job.
The price you stated sounds VERY high to me. The place that I'm taking my tests (they also do training as well) offers an MCSE package for something like $7k-8k (Gets you MCP, MCSA, and MCSE, as well as A+).
I would assume some difference in price across the country (I'm in California) but almost triple the price is a bit much. You'll deffinetly want to check the prices at other schools.
Overclocker,
Don't be discouraged. When I worked for an ISP we have people with CCNA, MCSE, etc answering the phones in Tech Support because that was the only way to get in the door. We also have 2 PhDs and 3 lawyers who had passed the bar working in Tech Support. They were all working in Tech Support because it was a way to get into the company, in order to move somewhere else within the company later.
When moving to a full time (non-contract) position, sometimes you have to start at the bottom. It took me 4 years of lower paying jobs to be able to get my self into a higher paying position, even though I could have easily handled the positions years ago. (Granted the .com bubble bursting didn't exactly help.)
An MCSE will give you an edge getting in the door, however it is no replacement for years of experience. 99% of employers will take someone with a few years experience and no MCSE over someone with an MCSE and no experience. You also need to remember that with the .com bubble burst that we had a few years ago, we have a lot more people looking for tech jobs then we have positions for.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
adeangelis
MIS
Getting your MCSE is good and all, but experience plays the bigger role in any position. Keep in mind that the training courses teach you in a controlled environment. If something goes wrong, you reboot the server and start over. However, in a real situation, a potential employer wants to see proven adaptation to a crisis.
Just like Overclocker, I took the bait of a school hook, line and sinker, and it was an MS training Center! I earned my MCSE, and couldn't get anywhere near 50k a year. What I kept getting is "I'm sorry, we're looking for X years of experience." And they were right (that was about 7 years ago). Fresh out of school, I thought I knew it all. What I didn't realize is that I had absolutely no clue! I found that no network is pure. You'll NEVER administer a pure Windows network (unless of course your client is so small, they only have 5 workstations). Every network I've ever administered has been a some combination of Mac, Unix, Windows, Novell, Linux, Sun Solaris, Mainframes, etc.
That's not to mention types of firewalls (PIX, Checkpoint, SonicWall, Border Manager, etc.), databases (MSSQL, Sybase, Oracle, MySQL, etc.), Web Servers (IIS, Apache, etc.), Authentication types (Actice Directory, NDS, etc.), and a whole slew of software. Being a Sys Admin consists of much more than just knowing Windows.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to get your certification. I currently hold MCSE+Internet for NT 4, MCSE 2000, MCDBA and MCSA. I am currently working on my certifications for MCSE 2003. I am a Sr. Technical Consultant/Web Designer/Network Administrator for a software development company now. I am responsible for the hiring and interviewing of any technical positions available with our company. Usually when I see a certification, it says to me that the potential employee has the willingness to see things to the end and to learn new technologies quickly. However, if the experience is not there, how would I know how one of my employees would react when faced with a critical production environment issue?
Like I said earlier, go for your cert, but try to gain some experience. I would advise getting a little experience first before taking your exams. That way, your not taking the exams based on memorization of a book, but rather you would be using your real world experience, which would make them easier.
Either way you choose, good luck, and when you pass, be sure to let us know!
--Andy
Just like Overclocker, I took the bait of a school hook, line and sinker, and it was an MS training Center! I earned my MCSE, and couldn't get anywhere near 50k a year. What I kept getting is "I'm sorry, we're looking for X years of experience." And they were right (that was about 7 years ago). Fresh out of school, I thought I knew it all. What I didn't realize is that I had absolutely no clue! I found that no network is pure. You'll NEVER administer a pure Windows network (unless of course your client is so small, they only have 5 workstations). Every network I've ever administered has been a some combination of Mac, Unix, Windows, Novell, Linux, Sun Solaris, Mainframes, etc.
That's not to mention types of firewalls (PIX, Checkpoint, SonicWall, Border Manager, etc.), databases (MSSQL, Sybase, Oracle, MySQL, etc.), Web Servers (IIS, Apache, etc.), Authentication types (Actice Directory, NDS, etc.), and a whole slew of software. Being a Sys Admin consists of much more than just knowing Windows.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to get your certification. I currently hold MCSE+Internet for NT 4, MCSE 2000, MCDBA and MCSA. I am currently working on my certifications for MCSE 2003. I am a Sr. Technical Consultant/Web Designer/Network Administrator for a software development company now. I am responsible for the hiring and interviewing of any technical positions available with our company. Usually when I see a certification, it says to me that the potential employee has the willingness to see things to the end and to learn new technologies quickly. However, if the experience is not there, how would I know how one of my employees would react when faced with a critical production environment issue?
Like I said earlier, go for your cert, but try to gain some experience. I would advise getting a little experience first before taking your exams. That way, your not taking the exams based on memorization of a book, but rather you would be using your real world experience, which would make them easier.
Either way you choose, good luck, and when you pass, be sure to let us know!
--Andy
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