Merry Christmas

[rjoubert]

I've heard how people can get offended at this holiday greeting. I say screw being P/C...this holiday is a celebration of the birth of our savior, Jesus Christ. Over the years it has become so commercialized and more about gifts than anything else. I'm not trying to push my religious beliefs onto anyone, and I sincerely hope you don't take it that way.

So, I'm sorry if you get offended, but I'm going to wish you all a [red]M[/red][green]E[/green][red]R[/red][green]R[/green][red]Y[/red] [green]C[/green][red]H[/red][green]R[/green][red]I[/red][green]S[/green][red]T[/red][green]M[/green][red]A[/red][green]S[/green] anyways.

 

[vanka25]

You just tend not to notice that holidays of other religions are ignored by the masses.

I agree that not just Christianity's holidays but that other religions' holidays are also ignored; but the key lies in "the masses". Here in the US the majority of people celebrate Christmas; most of them still celebrate it as a religious holiday while others as a secular one - and that is fine. I agree with you that no one should tell you what or how to celebrate. The point is does a minority have a right to be offended that their holiday is ignored or marginalized when: a) they are in the minority, b) their holiday is a relative new-comer while the majority's has been celebrated here for centuries, c) the majority is making to attempt to hinder or prohibit the celebration of the minority's holiday. Should we really be worried about not offending the 5 people who celebrate the Death of the Spaghetti Monster (Dots) on December 26th? What worries most Christians is that Christmas (which the majority has and still celebrates) is de-emphasized or ignored while other holidays (which are in the minority) are brought to equal or greater prominence.

I want to make clear that I am in no way advocating eliminating other holidays and that I understand that the other winter holidays are just as important to the people who celebrate them as Christmas is to me; but at the same time Christmas has a status of "majority". I am not saying this just because this is Christmas we're discussing. If I moved to Israel and found that their they celebrate Hanukkah with little or no mention of Christmas, I would not be offended - it is "their" holiday. If someone were to wish me a Happy Hanukkah that would in no way offend me.

 

[KornGeek]

Out of curiousity, how many of the people in this discussion have ever been offended by or offended anybody with the phrase "Merry Christmas"? Is this even a real issue or just over-hyped by rumor?

 

[KenCunningham]

I think it's an issue some people like to believe is an 'issue' - a bit like an urban legend if you like. It gives them something else to moan about and hang their insecurities on.

I want to be good, is that not enough?

 

[LizSara]

In the UK at least, we don't have holidays for Halloween or (obv) 4th July or Thanksgiving, so I would suggest that when we say Happy Holidays it's because at Christmas we are actually having a holiday?

KG ~ I've definitely never been offended by the phrase Merry Christmas, but I have to say I have stopped using it as much because of the plethora of religious beliefs/cultural differences we have here in the UK. Having said that it's less because I don't want to cause offence and more so that people of other faiths/cultures will understand I have considered them before I speak. I can't imagine anyone being offended by the ise, after all it's traditional, but why stop considering the feelings of others because of this holiday?

"Whoever battles with monsters had better see that it does not turn him into a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." ~ Nietzsche"

 

[kjv1611]

jebenson,

Apparently you didn't see the Christmas trees at the end of my post?

Yeah, we do the Christmas tree deal.

The verse you mention there is used by some out of context to associate Christmas trees with idol worship back in the OT times. Of course people still today do idol worship.

The decked with silver and gold was not quite the same.

But just to make sure you can see it, I'll go over the verse here myself:
Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (KJV).

..the way of the heathen.. - the "heathen" there were those who were not Jews, specifically those who worshipped false gods.

..signs of heaven... this was one of the ways that the children of Israel were getting mixed up with the heathen - the such thing as Astrology is today..

And here's the specific portion of reference:
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Broken down:
..For the customs of the people are vain:
The customs of the people, in context, were vain, b/c they served false "dead" gods, instead of the one true living God.

..for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Okay, if that makes it wrong to do a Christmas tree, then it also makes it wrong to have any wooden furniture or even fake trees in a home.

..They deck it with silver and with gold;..
Okay, this part, if you think of Christmas just based on a song, such as "Silver and Gold, Silver and Gold.... It's Christmas time in the city! Ringaling, hear them sing..." Then you first think, aha! that's matching that verse.
No, it's not. When people in that time decked a tree with silver and gold, they didn't just take the tree as it was, and throw garland on it. Nope, they trimmed it down, often carved faces and such in them - not different from totem poles in some places today, and would overlay them with gold/silver, or else decorate them with real gold and silver. "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." They would then worship these idols. And much of that false idol worship also involved child sacrifice and sexual "rituals".

...they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
I believe this part is just God making fun of them, and expanding upon the opening of the verse. He's saying, look, they make their gods with their own hands, and then those same gods can't even move themselves. And the people actually fasten them to keep them from moving, when they can't move in the first place! How silly!?

On the main point here in the thread, I think LizSara has stated rather well the thinking behind most people so far in this thread - not everyone, but it looks like at least a small majority:
but why stop considering the feelings of others because of this holiday?

I personally disagree with the idea there. The idea that if I celebrate the holiday which I prefer (whatever my reasons), and then use a greeting regarding that holiday, I'm somehow not taking other people into consideration. Frankly, it's the other way around. If you want to celebrate whatever, go right ahead, I won't be offended. We're not all just robots or clones, but we have each our own soul, and we are all different.

And besides that, the opportunity of any holiday to be used to magnify and glorify the Creator of the Universe coming down and taking on the form of man, so that he might save man, I'm all the more happy to share that with others. And that's not because I'm selfish or that I hate other people. Rather, it's because of the love that God has put in my heart for those people.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[strongm]

>an issue some people like to believe is an 'issue'

Yes. Increasingly there appear to be people that like to take offence on other people's behalf

 

[2ffat]

If someone wishes me a "happy ... " or a "merry ... " I don't get offended. I do get offended when someone says "@$%*^~ to you."

Side note: I discovered this summer that I say, "Happy Holidays" on the Fourth of July.

I will say Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.



James P. Cottingham
^{I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!}

 

[Opieo]

No polite intentioned greeting has ever offended me. And I do not think that I have ever offended somebody else.
I have always wished people "happy holidays" because in just about all cases, I will not see them between christmas and new years.

For a year or two I started wishing people "Happy christmas and a merry new year" just to mess with them.

~
“Your request is not unlike your lower intestine: stinky, and loaded with danger.” — Ace Ventura.

 

[kjv1611]

==>For a year or two I started wishing people "Happy christmas and a merry new year" just to mess with them.

That's a good one. I'll have to remember that, and try it out a time or two.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[tcsbiz]

I take no offense if the greeting, whether it is Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas, is given in a kindly manner with the person wishing good tidings.

Why would someone be angry with another wishing them well? It makes no sense. Some people are looking to be offended. I ignore them and cintunue on my way.

For me, religion has nothing to do with it. It only matters that someone is wishing that I do well and be happy.

 

[2ffat]

Along that same line: here's a Snope's dope on a Holiday Party.

James P. Cottingham
^{I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!}

 

[philhege]

May the joy of the SpiritThatMovesYou be in your hearts this season.

Peace.
Pax.
Shalom.
Paz.
Paix.
Vrede.
Frieden.
Pace.
???.
??.
??????.
??.

May the Word be heard and heeded.

Blessings on all of you.

Phil H.
Some Bank
-----------
Time's fun when you're having flies.

 

[KenCunningham]

Grease?

(is The Word, and it will probably be on over Christmas too).

All the best to everyone hereon, Tek-Tips and planet both.

I want to be good, is that not enough?

 

[flapeyre]

Pax Vobiscum.

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

 

[SF0751]

And also with you. Feliz Navidad, y'all.

Susan
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't."
- Anatole France

 

[rosieb]

Well - I work with a Hindu and a Muslim, we've all exchanged Christmas cards and pressies - and they both have Christmas trees!

Of course, we all celebrated Diwali and Eid-el-fitr - mainly with food. Yum!!!!

Do any of these idiots ever ask their constituents if they are are offended by Christmas celebrations? I have never met anyone, of any religion, who was offended by a christian celebration in a christian country.

It really annoys me that some people try to turn a cultural celebration (and let's face it, most celebrants aren't serious christians) into some kind of conflict. DUH, no-ones fighting you!

Rosie
"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." Richard Feynman

 

[vb5prgrmr]

Ah Bah Humbug!!!

Have a Merry Holiday.

Or is that make your holiday merry?

PS. Wiccan Yule

 

[2ffat]

File this one under, "If you didn't laugh about it, you'd cry." 'Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer' causes stir at school

It seems that that someone thinks the song has too many "religious overtones."

Have a great Muharram and Happy New Year.

James P. Cottingham
^{I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!}

 

[kjv1611]

[ROFL2] Yeah! That Rudolph is a real missionary, let me tell ya![ROFL2]

[obviously joking here... really...]
Uh oh, I think I just wet my pants from laughing too hard. Looks like I need to head out for the day.[/joking]

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Many parents shouted out with glee when they heard the song was back in the program.

<groan> I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it, but that made me snort.

I hope everyone who observes Christmas had a great one, and everyone else had a great week as well.

[tt][blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

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