Looking to purchase Avaya Solution

[sohtnax]

Hello,

I am currently looking to purchase a solution phone system with Call Center functionality for a new site. There will be approximately 200 employees at this site, 80 of which will be ACD agents. I'd like to go with something that has IP functionality and the abilitiy to handle up to 500 extensions for future growth.

I have had several people suggest the CSI or S8500. Any ideas or thoughts as to which to go with?

Both are priced higher than what he had originally budgeted for. Should I look into refurbished equipment? Anyone know of any good vendors that sell refurb equipment? Are there certain components, for example, the circuit pack, that I should not consider buying refurbished?

Lastly, does anyone know of any good vendors to support and maintain the sytem going forward in the NY/NJ area?

Thanks.

 

[RTMCKEE]

I think they are "end of life"ing the CSI. I'd probably go with the 8500.

I just came back to an avaya system after my last company put in a Cisco system with ACD (the old geotel). From that experience I'll say DON'T just look at initial cost, but look at total cost of ownership. The cisco system looked very attractive (to my bosses) on paper BEFORE we started the deployment. It is no exaggeration when I say it was 2 million over budget when I left, and was taking about twice as many folks to manage it as was originally planned for.

Not sure who your looking at, but defiantly go with some of the big names, AVAYA or Nortel.

2nd I'd probably size the system for anticipated growth, but not buy all the hardware, and install only new parts (processors, vm, etc...) Once the system was up and running id look at refurbed phones, and boards for expanding the system.

Just my 2 cents.

RTMCKEE

 

[sohtnax]

So would you say that I shouldn't look into any refurb parts for the new system, only for add-in components?

In addition to the Avaya, I've looked at 3com, Intertel, and Nortel. Avaya is my #1 choice, and the Nortel Option 11c is 2nd simply because of the pricing.

 

[RTMCKEE]

I'm not sure if it is possible to buy a whole refurbed system and have it under maintenance. I dont see why you couldn't I just dont think i've ever seen one advertised.

Basically you will want some sort of maintenance with the system. It does tend to be very pricey but from my personal experience it is worth it. Alot of times it is very frustrating dealing with the maint folks, but when you really have a problem they tend to deliver.

I have not heard anything about the 3com system, but i suspect it would be on part with cisco. And (again in my opinion) intertel is a 2nd tier phone system.

I dont think you'd want to go with a pure IP ACD phone system, they still have a few bugs to work out. We are running S8700 with G650 gateways. While the connection beween the phone and the system is tdm/digital, the connection between G650s is IP, and I have approx 25 VPN agents. We are taking about 900 busy hour calls and you can figure that 1/2 are traversing the ip connecions. I have had no typical IP voice complaints. Infact we put in a G650 at our main office connected back to the call center via IP and I dont think any one in that building even knows we conveted to a new phone system. A HUGH contrast to when we rolled out Cisco at my last place.

RTMCKEE

 

[sohtnax]

That's what I want to hear. Although I will be putting in the Avaya at a new site, our existing site has a Norstar, which I would eventually like to get rid of.

I agree about hte maintenance. I pay about $4,000 per year right now and it is worth it in the long haul.

As you stated, I can't find an entire phone system, but was looking more at the cards and phones. I was told to avoid purchasing the Circuit Card refurbed. Do you agree?

Also, do you have any experience with the Avaya Contact Center?

 

[RTMCKEE]

We purchase refurbed packs and phones here. I think what you have to watch out for on the avaya refurbed market is the hardware version your getting. Sometimes they may not be compatable with the system your running.

We usually buy the latest hardware version. for example we purchase TN22224CP. instead of TN2224 or TN2224bs. The CP is the latest hardware version and is also programabled (which is what the P stands for) so you can upgrade the firmware version. the firmware version was set on all the older model boards.

I'm not familiar with the Avaya contact center. If its a whole suite of stuff, typically all avaya stuff works well together... however I'd still be leary of anything in the 1.1 or 1.0 area. We have MM 1.1 and while it works well for a windows based platform, i think an Audix is a little more stable.

RTMCKEE

 

[janaya]

I have been lucky (or unlucky) enough to work with multiple systems in a call center environment. The first thing is, if you are looking at systems that are over your budget, you need to go back and have it re-budgeted.

All Call Center Pbx applications are expensive. Whether it's Nortel, Avaya, Aspect or whatever.

You will need to budget for equipment (total phone system, phonesets, headsets, server equipment for ACD applications, voicemail system [an additional server if you don't buy the 201i card option call pilot from nortel].

Then you need installation, which will be 40 hours of data collection, probably another 40 hours of set up profile and maybe 40 hours of programming (but this all depends on how complex you want it.

Then you need to look at the cost of cutover. Usually with good planning you can accomplish this in one night, not a big deal. And then finish with maybe 16 hours of after install technician support and a maintenance contract. But maintenance is usually included for the first year on most hardware, and most companies should guarantee their initial work for one year.

With that said, the Avaya systems are easy to work on. Good ol' plain english forms is what I like most about the systems. An initial buy into the Universal Upgrade Package means that your system gets all the new upgrades at not cost. A little more up front, but worth it in the long run. Lots of ACD reports to pick from and with EAS, multi skillsets are not a problem for agents.

The bad part: Troubleshooting is not that easy. You can view events and errors and alarms, but most of the codes are proprietary and only Avaya can tell you what they mean. MTS traces are the same way, so you cannot actively troubleshoot problems, beyond what is basic. The flip side to this, is that I have ALWAYS had a good respons from their TAC center.

Nortel systems are a different monster, but all the bells and whistles are pretty much the same. The Nortel interface is a little easier with Element Manager and OTM (their GUI interfaces) but work on the maint terminal can look intimidating if you don't know what you are doing. The language is still proprietary and classes are really needed to become really proficient. So ease of customer use, from the Maint. Terminal is not as easy as the Avaya.

But the trouble shooting tools are excellent. On site technicians can be very proactive in researching issues with the switch. With the right training. All error codes are published for public view and all trace files can be looked at by anyone with access to the system. Trouble shooting is quicker and easier than the Avaya, because it takes a little longer to get a hold of the TAC center at times, and you really have to go through a certified maintenance vendor to get them.

Of the two, I prefer the Nortel, because of the trouble shooting aspect, but that is only my opinion.

Hope this sheds some light for you.

 

[jimbojimbo]

Multiple comments here.

1. I am 100% Avaya.

2. With a little 'coaxing' from the field, Avaya has released a new set of maintenance documents CM2.2 that include most of the "proprietary" codes that have been previously mentioned (Including the ISDN events).

3. Take a look at what you are doing long run. That is where most people fail. You already mentioned a second site where you would like to eventually get rid of a system. Look for a solution that will expand to cover all of your sites. Think about redundancy and survivability. Most management teams don't seriously think about this until it is brought up to them.

4. If you plan on eventually doing multiple sites, let the vendor know up front and get a quote for both single site, and the long term vision. You will get a better feel for what the real costs will be.

5. If you do select an Avaya solution, you might want to look at the S8300/G700. It probably won't scale for the long term but the components can be re-used if you migrate to a S8500 or S8710 later. The G700 can remain a gateway off of the S8500 or S8710 and the S8300 can be converted into a Local Survivable Processor (LSP). The S8300/G700 is low cost, can provide survivability (can install second S8300 Media Server into the stack, supports digital, analog, IP, and can be purchased with an integrated voicemail (big price saver).

6. I work for an Avaya Business Partner. If you would like one of our account execs to follow up, contact me off-line and I will refer you.



James Middleton
ACSCI/ACSCD/MCSE
Xeta Technologies
jim.middleton@xeta.com

 

[sohtnax]

How does the S8500 compare to the Inter-Tel Axxess?

Is anyone familiar with the Inter-Tel?

 

[ReallyRotten]

I have to put in my 2 cents (and that's maybe all it's worth).

1. I would never deploy IP phones in a production environment, I'd choose Avaya CallMaster V digital phones.

2. I'd pick Avaya, it's easy to work on, installing cards is relatively simple, the learning curve is not as steep as it would be for Nortel.

3. My configuration...maybe overkill but I'd go with S8700 Multiconnect.

Finally, good luck!

 

[orypecos]

Ebay had a complete CSI cabinet full of boards, but not telephones,for $500 last month. I wouldn't buy used for the cabinet or processor unless you were already very familiar with AVaya equipment.
Don't buy Defintity One, IP600, or the renamed versions of those. They can be, and usually are lots of trouble.
The US Robotics Modems used on some CSI cabinets have a perchance to not release, so u have to go down and manually recycle them.