j2EE and .NEt comparison resource

[SteveHurst]

We are a VB house that is considering the pro's and cons of j2EE over .NET

I was wondering if there are any good resources for comparison information ?

Also which is the best j22 tool ?

 

[jwenting]

I doubt you'll find ANY non-biassed resource.

Basically J2EE is more powerful and far more flexible but (partly as a result, partly because your existing Microsoft expertise) the learning curve is worse and as a result time to market will (at least for the first project(s)) likely be longer.

 

[sedj]

J2EE vs .NET - its like asking do you prefer Ford or Vauxhall, or Linux vs Windows.

First, .NET costs money. J2EE doesn't.
Second, for your case, VB.NET is nothing like VB6.

.NET will basically do relatively the same things that J2EE will do, but in a slightly different way. The Framework of integrating code written in C#, say, and getting ASP.NET to talk to it is a lot less intuitve than the way Java talks to JSP.

PS, you aren't Steve Hurst that used to work at Northern Electric are you ?!!!!

Cheers

Ben

 

[jwenting]

J2EE can cost big money, .NET doesn't have to cost much... It all depends on the tools you use with each.

 

[palbano]

>> Basically J2EE is more powerful and far more flexible

Please define what power means in that context.

>> J2EE vs .NET - its like asking do you prefer Ford or Vauxhall, or Linux vs Windows.

Which is Linux, the Ford or the Vauxhall?

>> First, .NET costs money. J2EE doesn't.

Sure you can download the J2EE SDK and JRE for free, but nothing of much interest is there unless you buy an Application Server, which as jwenting points out, is very expensive.

The bottom line is there is no way to compare the two from a preferential standpoint without first adding some context to the question. If you have a shop full of Java developers that don’t know from CreateWindow() then J2EE would be a great choice for you. On the other hand if you have a shop full of Windows developers that wouldn’t know a package if it fell out of their mouse then .NET is a great choice.

That is not the only context you can add to the question, there are many other issues that you already have that might be applicable to the question.

"But, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong."

-pete

 

[harmmeijer]

I have been working with VB6 and learned the java basics before going into .net. This helped me to adapt to a different programming style.
Since VB.net is sometimes more like Java then VB6 is.

http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/TOC.html

Is a good place to start learning about OO programming without getting into the Java API's too much.

One thing I don't like about asp.net (the new asp) is that it's OO structure is handled totally by the server and the client has to "suffer" by submitting a page every click the client does. Since addng information are with client script is not saved in the __viewstate (asp.net's way to save the state of your html elements) there is not a lot you can do with javasctipt because after a click on a "runat=server" element the form is submitted and all the values are gone unless you read out the request.. (like oldfasion ASP).
The way to programm can be fast (=cheap), scalable and maintainable but promotes for a verry verry poor client (if you want to do anything you have to submit the page and let the server sort it out).
Java and the use of applets can make a richer client wich can inhance the preceived performance (=how the user interprets the performance of your app).
Macromedia is trying (and succeeding) to make the client even richer:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/blueprint/articles/faq.html#flash_deploy

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/blueprint/articles/faq.html#why_mx

Greetings, Harm Meijer

 

[palbano]

>> unless you read out the request.. (like oldfasion ASP).

Are you suggesting that in a Java environment there is a way to do this that is simpler than oldfashion ASP approach? If you do i'd like to know what it is?

As far as i know you still have to write all the code on both sides of the connection to interoperate in the context of your application, regardless of the server environment you are working in. All runat server does is provide a framework for you that may fit a high percentage of application requirements. Very similar to Java ServerFaces API.

If your requirements don't fit the .NET Forms architecture nor the Java ServerFaces Architecture then of course you have to develop a lot more to meet your goal.


-pete

 

[harmmeijer]

I am not saying that it is less work in Java or the oldfashin asp way I am saying that the way that .net implements it (mytextbox.text, mylabel.text) does not promote a rich client.





Greetings, Harm Meijer

 

[sedj]

>>>Sure you can download the J2EE SDK and JRE for free, but nothing of much interest is there unless you buy an Application Server, which as jwenting points out, is very expensive.

What can do do in WebLogic or WebSphere that you cannot do using the j2ee server and other freebies from apache ?
In the j2ee RI, all the basic functionality is there - jms, ejb, rmi, corba, soap and xml support etc etc !

 

[jwenting]

Yes, it's all there.
But an appserver is far more than just an implementation of some APIs.
You need things like loadballancing, stability, scalability, performance etc. etc.

The reference implementation is just that, an implementation for testing standards compliance (if it works on that it SHOULD work on any server that implements the full standard correctly).
It's not designed to be a production level server and Sun doesn't claim it is.
It might be good enough for a small personal website, but if you plan a large site better look for the likes of Orion/Oracle app server, Borland Appserver, Novel Extends (SilverStream), WebLogic or WebSphere.
The reference server just doesn't scale well to a production environment.

 

[sedj]

All points I am aware of, but I am responding to the claim above that "J2EE can be expensive".
My point is that it is POSSIBLE to function without bought products given the skill and inclination !

 

[palbano]

Ok, then by comparison Windows 2000 Professional comes with IIS and you can download and install the .NET Runtime and SDK free as well so there you have it for the price of Windows 2000 Professional.

-pete

 

[sedj]

No, because Windows 2000 prof costs money. Plus, have you ever tried to write a web service or web app without VS.NET ? Nightmare. Whereas J2EE - vive la vi !

 

[sedj]

>>> No, because Windows 2000 prof costs money.

Ignore that, I'm going mad. I guess you have to spend money on some OS. That does it, I'm going .NET. I've talked myself out of J2EE !

 

[palbano]

Perhaps, either way, you seem to have exception handling down pretty well

-pete

 

[sedj]

Hey, when you are as incompetent as I am, you learn to run your own 'doh!' cron jobs.

The guy that started this still hasn't replied though ... is he 'Steve Hurst from Northern Electric' ?.

Even I'd pay Bill to answer that one ...

 

[palbano]

>> The guy that started this still hasn't replied though

I just checked his profile, he hasn't even logged on the site since the 17th, how stupid does that make us

-pete