Is there anything like vb6 for Linux 2

[tedsmith]

Is there a program like Visual Basic that I can use in Linux?
I want to write a simple app that is in effect a public information display screen.
I needs to display large text (up to 200pt) in a number of sizeable boxes, some with the text scrolling sideways and others with moving pictures or animation in them.
In other words it should look something like a borderless web page.
Any ideas?

 

[venkman]

Gary (gwinn7) -

I understand what you are saying, but I think the distinction between end users and developers is a big one. End users can benefit from being able to run their favorite win apps on linux. I think Wine at this point sucks because it often doesn't work, and when it does it takes so much time to figure out how to configure it to get an app working. It's not really a practical solution to non-technical people. It would be nice if it got better, but given Microsoft's history it is unlikely that company will ever allow Wine to work fully.

As for developers, I think it's important to understand why people use vb, and replicate that. I like VB because it allows people with very little knowledge of programming to learn very quickly. However, it is not the language that makes this possible, but the ide. At a conceptual level this should be replicated in linux. However, to actually try to replicate the syntax and structure of the language itself seems relatively unimportant. It's much more important to entice people who are about to learn VB to learn a linux eqivalent than it is to entice already existing VB developers. Also, I don't think there is a way to make the switch for the most experienced VB developers to linux easy. The knowledge this class of developers has is intrinsically tied to windows and microsoft based technologies and could never be efficiently applied to linux. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be helpful to replicate VB as a language on linux, but I would think that it's a waste of time in comparison to what linux developers could be doing with this time. Wouldn't this development be more useful in other places?

-Venkman

 

[marsd]

Very cogent post venkman.

I find myself flabbergasted at the thought
of someone approaching *nix programming so
superficially: As if a language, since it works
for windows, should make identical inroads into
*nix.

I've read gwinn's posts in consternation and
cannot understand his insistence on what is
obviously a mismatch.
There are wonderful high level languages
available for *nix development besides the
'big 3' that I mentioned.
Ruby and Lua are very nice. Lisp and scheme
are cool, but, IMHO, are not for the vb only
programmer.

All I can think is that all of these options are
confusing, which I empathize with.

 

[sleipnir214]

Another star for venkman! I've been trying for 2 hours to figure out how to say it that well -- I could never get past "Dear nitwit".


marsd:
I suspect VB is the only language he knows. And I suspect he's never had any formal schooling in operating systems, GUI design, or language theory.

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!

 

[gwinn7]

I guess then that we are going to have to agree to disagree. I totally see and understand your points.

From a technical/developer standpoint, it does not make a whole lot of sense to have VB on Linux. That point we are in agreement. However, you need to understand reasoning of my approach to this.

From the stand-point of someone who is spending the money on development costs, they do not fully understand what you have asserted. If I was a business owner and I had someone trying to sell me that we should write this app in a completely new language, I would probably wouldn't spend the money because of the following perceptions....

1- Few people use Linux, therefore little return.
2- It going to take a tremendous amount of time and money for retraining my staff in a new language and platform.
3- etc...

You see, its not the actual reality I am getting at here. Its the perception. Perception is a HUGE thing. To change that perception, you need to make it as easy as possible for that perception to change. This comes back to why not support VB on Linux. It will make the perception to Linux more attractive. Therefore, more skilled developers will follow. This means more supported compatible applications, hence more end-users using Linux because their perception is that they can do anything Windows can, which in the end, will be the reality.

I am not a huge proponent of having VB on Linux, even though you couldn't tell by the way I am defending it. I am just saying it couldn't hurt and could actually end up being helpful and pretty cool actually.

Gary
gwinn7
A+, N+, I+

 

[marsd]

Perceptions change.
In case you hadn't noticed: Big Blue is linux intense.

When IBM says you're it, you have a legitimate shot:
especially if IBM isn't calling all the shots.

You're few people use linux stuff is classic M$
FUD.
Lot's of people use linux that don't even know wtf
they're using. I can speak authoritatively as a sys
admin on this.
Think about it.
But, nonetheless, I think I've classified you as a
troll now.

 

[Norwich]

Marsd,

I'm going by when he said. To quote:

"
What I want to do is to make an app that runs by itself in a series of forms like in VB.

I want to have the usual collection of indexed controls and get data from network, comms and a database.

I want a program to have the ease of form design by importing controls like VB's activeX
"

That's an IDE he's after - not BASIC.

Now to flamebait...

Totally disagee when he says...

"It will make the perception to Linux more attractive. Therefore, more skilled developers will follow. "

Hands up who's met more that a couple of skilled VB developers?

I've worked in a few software houses and I've been shocked by the lack a structural programming understanding by a good number of VB coders. I think the ability to paste forms on top of data-structures masks the requirements to understand the procedural flows.

I guy on the support desk once came up to me and told me he had been going to evening classes to learn to program and was getting along really well. I asked him about parameters by value or pointer and he looked puzzled and said - "... but I can make a nice form with dropdown boxes" - seriously

 

[marsd]

Norwich,
Again I ask wtf you are talking about?
He wants a multiple function , multifunction widget
set app that does what it does when he figures out how
to do it.

You are absolutely NOT quoting the OP.

"I want to write a simple app that is in effect a public information display screen.
I needs to display large text (up to 200pt) in a number of sizeable boxes, some with the text scrolling sideways and others with moving pictures or animation in them.
In other words it should look something like a borderless web page."

 

[Norwich]

I'm not going to argue the point Marsd,

He says he want's to write that type of app. But read his other posts - he want's to write that type of app in an VB-like environment because that's what he knows - nice and simple and does it all for you....

 

[venkman]

First off, Norwich, you said it yourself, "flaimbait". But in a discussion of VB it's inevitable that someone play the "VB developers are just monkeys who can point and click" card. While I agree, the average c++/java programmer is probably better educated and has a better understanding of programming than the average VB or perl programmer ('cause I've seen a lot of really ugly perl scripts if you want to be truly honest here), there are plenty of excellent VB programmers out there, and I've worked with a bunch. Most of them did not know more than the basics about c++, but they wrote excellent, structured, and modular code in VB. That said, these basic programming concepts are not speciffic to any language.

Gary, back to you, everyone's favorite punching bag - to take some pressure off you, I'm now going to put out some flaimbait:
I think you need to draw distinctions between early adopter companies and everyone else. It is early adopters who drive the software market. They are usually startups with nothing to lose. When they try something new, like linux for the purposes of this argument, they either fail or succeed in a very extreme way. If they succeed they make so much dough off their product that all the big guys are forced to change their practices in order to compete. I think you are talking about companies that are already invested in a certain technology.... these type of companies do not switch technology to make money, they switch to prevent losing money. As such, it is a waste of time to appeal to them using backwards compatibility arguments. When the time comes they will either make the switch to stay in business, or go out of business. I know this is a gross oversimplification, and that there are plenty of exceptions, but I think overall I'm right.

And again, you bring up this argument that there is nothing to lose by developing VB for linux. And again I reiterate, yes there is. We lose time, energy, and sometimes, god forbid, money.... all of which should be spent doing something else

-Venkman

 

[venkman]

BTW, Norwich, I'm raising my hand.

 

[Norwich]

Sorry,
Just stirring ;-)

 

[njm106]

PHP can do GUIs as well, i think this months Linux Format has an article about it.

It can do forms and all the usual stuff.

 

[gwinn7]

Venkman,

Very well put. I truly appreciate your reasoning and thank you for lending my points a bit of creedence. Again, for the most part I agree, about 95% of it. It would seem that some people who have responded to my posts have not grasped on to the fundamental points I am making. Perhaps I have just touched on a sensitive issue or could not articulate myself well. Either way, I still ended up at the "punching bag" end of things.

Unfortunately, some of the contributors to this forum seem very biased to the point of near hostility even though it really doesn't matter what we all say. They are just viewpoints. Therefore, I will respectfully bow out of this discussion.

Take care everyone and goodluck,
Gary
gwinn7
A+,N+,I+

 

[JustKIDn]

First to answer tedsmith's question (partially),

I agree with someone else who mentioned 'Kylix' it has a fully functioning IDE that works somewhat similar to VB. True you'd have to learn another language, but... (we'll get to that in a minute.)

Also, no one has officially mentioned 'QT', it too has an IDE like VB. (some day I hope to try it myself)

PHP doesn't actually have an IDE, but who says that everything you program has to have an IDE? (if I looked in Google I probably could find an IDE for PHP). But tedsmith did say;

'In other words it should look something like a borderless web page.'

Well if you program php to display in a browser, you'd be close to his discription!

-===============================================-
Now about programming for Linux:
-===============================================-

'Yes, it is true there are plenty of alternatives for programming on Linux, but those languages requires retraining for many developers, and that costs money that businesses/individuals would rather not spend...
How cool would it be to tell a manager that hey, I don't have to learn a new language to write code for this platform.'

Actually that's a very good argument if you only know one language, like VB.
However, you will find that as you begin to learn more languages, that they all have similarities. The learning curve for a new language becomes shorter each time.

So in the above example, looking at it from the managers perspective;
"Hey, no problem, I have this programmer here who can pick-up a new language very quickly. It shouldn't take her too long to get up to speed. Yes we can do that project as requested!"

I've seen this example work out just this way in real life!

So crack the books. Don't be afraid to learn more languages! And DON'T wait for your manager to suggest one.

You want a raise don't you?

my .02

tgus

____________________________
Families can be together forever...

 

[tedsmith]

WOW!
I have already written a few versions of my 'public information thingy' in VB over the last 5 years and have about 30 of them working in public areas.
To get around the eventual inevitable once a week Windows freeze due to slow gobbling up of resources after a long period in operation, I have a power timer that switches the power off and back on at 3am when nobody is around.
I started programming microprocessors in 1980 in machine code (even before assembly) so I'm quite prepared to learn a new language if it would be better.
I read various reports that Linux is more stable and I thought it might be better for unattended operation like mine and not need periodically resetting.
All I was interested in finding out if there was a way of programming such applications in LINUX as easy as it is in VB6 before I bother to learn Linux.
Reason tells me I havent got many more lucid years left on this earth! (Im aged 67 now)