It is strange how there are lots of people with different opinions when it comes to RAM. I am not talking about RAM speed but the ammount of RAM. Let's say I increase a P4 2.4GHz pc from 256Mb DDR 400 to 1Gb DDR 400. Does that increase the PC speed, stability......??
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations Chriss Miller on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
How Ram increases PC performance 2
- Thread starter seanform
- Start date
-
1
- #2
Performance increase, yes, as in having overhead and room for programs... as in speed of the CPU no... it will clunker along at the same rate, but will have less todo since the swapping from and to the Swapfile is turned to a low...
generally speaking it is recommended to be at least at 512mb, the more the merrier...
Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
generally speaking it is recommended to be at least at 512mb, the more the merrier...
Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
I would go a little further and add that it depends on the operating system, how it handles memory, and on the applications that you have running, since you didn't mention those.
Otherwise BBBen's reply pretty much sums it up.
Stability may increase, since there is less to go wrong. But that depends on usage, as memory requirements generally increase to exceed the availability. Think it is one of Murphy's laws, or something.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
Otherwise BBBen's reply pretty much sums it up.
Stability may increase, since there is less to go wrong. But that depends on usage, as memory requirements generally increase to exceed the availability. Think it is one of Murphy's laws, or something.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
Yes, the speed increase comes from being able to have more applications/data in RAM at any one time. This is tremendously faster than having to load programs/data into memory first before using them and/or having to free up memory.
It's sort of like if you know a phone number by memory, it saves you the time to have to get the phone number from a phone book. Your brain doesnt work any faster either way, it's just that the initial work was already done: having the phone number memorized and only having to retrieve the number from your memory instead of having to first look for it in a book.
It's sort of like if you know a phone number by memory, it saves you the time to have to get the phone number from a phone book. Your brain doesnt work any faster either way, it's just that the initial work was already done: having the phone number memorized and only having to retrieve the number from your memory instead of having to first look for it in a book.
-
1
- #5
Just to elaborate further...
Let's say I was using Windows XP with 128MB of RAM on a decently fast PC. Increasing that to 256MB would do wonders, and going to 512MB would be even better.
Going from 512MB to 1GB, however, may only help by a small percentage, if any, depending on how you use your PC. There are some applications that can take advantage of larger amounts. There are others that simply won't.
The bottom line is that you can't have too much, but there is a point of "diminishing returns" that you will eventually reach. 1GB is a good amount to stop at unless you're positive you need more.
Slowness that gets worse over time is usually due to spyware/adware infections, or having too many programs load at startup which is another issue altogther...
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Let's say I was using Windows XP with 128MB of RAM on a decently fast PC. Increasing that to 256MB would do wonders, and going to 512MB would be even better.
Going from 512MB to 1GB, however, may only help by a small percentage, if any, depending on how you use your PC. There are some applications that can take advantage of larger amounts. There are others that simply won't.
The bottom line is that you can't have too much, but there is a point of "diminishing returns" that you will eventually reach. 1GB is a good amount to stop at unless you're positive you need more.
Slowness that gets worse over time is usually due to spyware/adware infections, or having too many programs load at startup which is another issue altogther...
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
When the system misses memory, it uses the hard disk as a "virtual mamory" buffer to emulate a larger amount of RAM instead of crashing of refusing to open the application. It will still work but slower since a hard disk is in the millisecond range while the RAM access is in the nanosecond range.
Practically, applications like Messenger are memory hogs. If you open multiples instances of Messenger for many friends at a time, the memory needed for it is impressive. But with 512 megs of memory you should be okay.
3D games are the best (or worse?) memory hoggers. A game like World of Warcraft has peak needs that exceed 800 megs of memory. You an imagine moving all this data through a slow hard disk. So if you're a gamer, one gig of RAM is a requirement.
Practically, applications like Messenger are memory hogs. If you open multiples instances of Messenger for many friends at a time, the memory needed for it is impressive. But with 512 megs of memory you should be okay.
3D games are the best (or worse?) memory hoggers. A game like World of Warcraft has peak needs that exceed 800 megs of memory. You an imagine moving all this data through a slow hard disk. So if you're a gamer, one gig of RAM is a requirement.
Usually, the more memory you have, the better your computer will operate over time.
While it's true you can have more programs open at once, the real savings comes not from virtual memory, but "virtual disk" - the caching of data and file operations the operating system does behind the scenes.
When your computer reads from disk, it caches the data away in case you need it again - if you read the same data, it gets it from memory instead of the disk. Similarly, if you write to disk, it doesn't have to write it immediately - many times it will cache the operation itself, and wait for an opportune time to write it. This is the main reason why it's important to restart your computer gracefully instead of just cutting the power - to give the OS time to write all its cached data out.
Increasing the amount of memory in your computer, therefore, will really improve performance in the long run. Note that this is really only true if your computer is left on without rebooting for long periods of time.
: Daniel :
-
While it's true you can have more programs open at once, the real savings comes not from virtual memory, but "virtual disk" - the caching of data and file operations the operating system does behind the scenes.
When your computer reads from disk, it caches the data away in case you need it again - if you read the same data, it gets it from memory instead of the disk. Similarly, if you write to disk, it doesn't have to write it immediately - many times it will cache the operation itself, and wait for an opportune time to write it. This is the main reason why it's important to restart your computer gracefully instead of just cutting the power - to give the OS time to write all its cached data out.
Increasing the amount of memory in your computer, therefore, will really improve performance in the long run. Note that this is really only true if your computer is left on without rebooting for long periods of time.
: Daniel :
-
Depends on the program you are running also. Some programs are very RAM Dependent. If you are using video or picture editing software with really large files, then more RAM may give you faster loading times. Servers seem to utilize RAM a little better, and they eat extra RAM for breakfast.
I think operating systems need more user options for how they use RAM. Microsoft just assumes the average joe or jane is somehow dummer than a rock. What is the point of having 2 gig of RAM if you cant tell your OS to use MORE RAM for cache memory instead of trying to kill the hard drive.
A faster hard drive can also have a significant effect on speeding up a PC. FASTER for a hard drive may mean more heat, and of course the heat has to go somewhere. However, everything is a trade-off. I still get by with just 512 Megs of RAM.
The Cache size on some new porcessors is a lot larger for Intel Processors. Even some AMD processors have more expensive versions with more Cache Memory, which is the fastest kind of RAM. For a long time the Mobile processors have often come with more cache RAM that you often see in Centrino P4 Processors. Even some of the Mobile Celerons sometimes have twice the Cache Memory as their Desktop cousins. It would make sense in some ways to build computers with Mobile processors for light desktop use because they run cooler and should last longer, and burn less electricity. AMD has made lots of Mobile processors that will run on the desktop and have found ways to let overclockers take advantage of their processors, but Intel is less likely to be doing such a thing.
If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.
I think operating systems need more user options for how they use RAM. Microsoft just assumes the average joe or jane is somehow dummer than a rock. What is the point of having 2 gig of RAM if you cant tell your OS to use MORE RAM for cache memory instead of trying to kill the hard drive.
A faster hard drive can also have a significant effect on speeding up a PC. FASTER for a hard drive may mean more heat, and of course the heat has to go somewhere. However, everything is a trade-off. I still get by with just 512 Megs of RAM.
The Cache size on some new porcessors is a lot larger for Intel Processors. Even some AMD processors have more expensive versions with more Cache Memory, which is the fastest kind of RAM. For a long time the Mobile processors have often come with more cache RAM that you often see in Centrino P4 Processors. Even some of the Mobile Celerons sometimes have twice the Cache Memory as their Desktop cousins. It would make sense in some ways to build computers with Mobile processors for light desktop use because they run cooler and should last longer, and burn less electricity. AMD has made lots of Mobile processors that will run on the desktop and have found ways to let overclockers take advantage of their processors, but Intel is less likely to be doing such a thing.
If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.
azimuth0,
Right, adding more memory usually yields in increased performance. But as ceh4702 and myself have mentioned, there is a point of "diminishing returns" that every PC will eventually reach. Therefore, the amount of gain or return you can expect to see by adding more memory, will depend heavily on the type of applications you run and how much you had to begin with.
Going from 512MB to 896MB will not result in the same amount of performance boost as going from 128MB to 512MB, even though both involve adding 384MB of memory.
That's what is meant by "diminishing returns". That's also why the guy at BestBuy or CompUSA shouldn't be quick to recommend a memory upgrade before knowing what you have already...
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Right, adding more memory usually yields in increased performance. But as ceh4702 and myself have mentioned, there is a point of "diminishing returns" that every PC will eventually reach. Therefore, the amount of gain or return you can expect to see by adding more memory, will depend heavily on the type of applications you run and how much you had to begin with.
Going from 512MB to 896MB will not result in the same amount of performance boost as going from 128MB to 512MB, even though both involve adding 384MB of memory.
That's what is meant by "diminishing returns". That's also why the guy at BestBuy or CompUSA shouldn't be quick to recommend a memory upgrade before knowing what you have already...
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Simonchtan
MIS
there is 2 part to this question.
RAM in short incease the buffer of the system operations
in short yes, system run more smoothly with more applications. However, that also means that the OS will create a bigger VM. which slows down the harddisk more often. in short fast system with slow harddisk = still slow PC.
so u should get ram that match your needs. such as if your programs need hugh mem to work then more ram helps.
If u have mutiple programs with small memory needs then dont add too much,
a P4 with windows 2kpro or better with 512MB to 1GB is decent configuration.
I know no voice, I knew nothing about systems,
i know NUTS on networking, Therefore I dont know anything!
-----------------------------------
©2003,2004 SCHT.
RAM in short incease the buffer of the system operations
in short yes, system run more smoothly with more applications. However, that also means that the OS will create a bigger VM. which slows down the harddisk more often. in short fast system with slow harddisk = still slow PC.
so u should get ram that match your needs. such as if your programs need hugh mem to work then more ram helps.
If u have mutiple programs with small memory needs then dont add too much,
a P4 with windows 2kpro or better with 512MB to 1GB is decent configuration.
I know no voice, I knew nothing about systems,
i know NUTS on networking, Therefore I dont know anything!
-----------------------------------
©2003,2004 SCHT.
MS XP has around a lot of services that it runs in the background keeping everything going. Some of these dont do much at all. For instance XP has some kind of service that makes searching faster. It also runs wireless networking services. Then there is all the junk in the status bar that runs all the time like IR Chat and odds and ends you may have installed or downloaded or just extras that you may not need to adjust the video or sound drivers or even your Networking status or your printer's status.
After that there is all of the spyware a person may have on their computer. These stupid programs often send info back to marketing companies to keep track of your every move. Basically they eat up your RAM and resources and slow your system down.
Then there are the Antivirus and firewall programs. They can be nice to have but if they are always running they may be slowing your computer down also. Norton is famous for slowing computers down.
So sometimes it can be these programs that slow down our computer. Everything is a trade off. A spyware blocker or a program that finds and deletes the spyware may really help a lot.
If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.
After that there is all of the spyware a person may have on their computer. These stupid programs often send info back to marketing companies to keep track of your every move. Basically they eat up your RAM and resources and slow your system down.
Then there are the Antivirus and firewall programs. They can be nice to have but if they are always running they may be slowing your computer down also. Norton is famous for slowing computers down.
So sometimes it can be these programs that slow down our computer. Everything is a trade off. A spyware blocker or a program that finds and deletes the spyware may really help a lot.
If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.
Simonchtan,
Actually, there are more than 2 parts we can discuss here and this part is incomplete. Having a bigger VM (Virtual Memory for those who are trying to learn here) means that more hard drive space is being "reserved" in case it's needed. Windows XP always uses 1.5 times the amount of RAM you have installed for the VM size.
But this is key...VM is reserved space. Having a larger VM doesn't necessarily mean your hard drive is going to run slower, especially with drives as large as 100GB or more these days. 1 - 2GB is a small chunk in today's terms.
The VM is heavily used during the opening and closing of applications, and especially during unexpected operations and system crashes. But besides that, if you have enough RAM or even too much RAM, it doesn't see much action and won't be much of a factor in terms of overall performance.
![[thumbsup2]](/data/assets/smilies/thumbsup2.gif "[thumbsup2] [thumbsup2]")
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Simonchtan said:
Actually, there are more than 2 parts we can discuss here and this part is incomplete. Having a bigger VM (Virtual Memory for those who are trying to learn here) means that more hard drive space is being "reserved" in case it's needed. Windows XP always uses 1.5 times the amount of RAM you have installed for the VM size.
But this is key...VM is reserved space. Having a larger VM doesn't necessarily mean your hard drive is going to run slower, especially with drives as large as 100GB or more these days. 1 - 2GB is a small chunk in today's terms.
The VM is heavily used during the opening and closing of applications, and especially during unexpected operations and system crashes. But besides that, if you have enough RAM or even too much RAM, it doesn't see much action and won't be much of a factor in terms of overall performance.
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question