How much to charge for Licenses for my APP 4

[x508]

HI.

Can you share with me some opinions on how to figure out a client license scheme that will be worth it to me, and yet not hurt/dicourage my client.

It goes like this.

I designed an application for my client according to all his needs (i.e. "Custom Made&quot

When we first discussed the projects, he told me that he would need this for hes business. I charged him R3000 (SA Rand) for this app and he was happy with the price.

He now wants to know how he will work if he wants to give the app to hes "other" branches, which I did not know about.

I told him we could speak about the licensing and he became very upset because he says he has "Bought" the program, and he can do with it whatever he wants.

I tried explaining to him about client licenses and he was not very happy.

How much can I charge him for licenses for this software for hes other branches (I don't want to charge him too much, but I also don't want to be done in)

Any ideas?

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May the Code Be With You...
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x50-8 (X Fifty Eigt)

 

[JeffTullin]

You can ask him for R1, and you can ask him for R1000000, but he may simply refuse to pay.
Legally, if you wrote the software for 'his business' and you don't have anything in writing to discuss installation on multiple machines, there is nothing you can do to force him.

What is the opposite of 'caveat empor'?
You may only be able to start charging licences on future versions of the program. Draw up a licence that explicity states 'for installation on one machine only, unless a 'site licence' fee is paid.

Then, when he comes back for a change, he can have a working one on a single machine only.

But even then, at the end of the day, if he does not pay, do you have the wherewithall to chase him through the courts for payment of a fee that was not agreed up front?

 

[x508]

He signed my original quotation that stated:

1 x Development Application (Custom) - R3000.00

I understand your points made...but, in your opinion, what would be reasonable license to charge, I think it will only be for about 4 PC's.

P.S. A license must be bought for the software, otherwise, he can sell a thousand copies of it to who ever, so he makes 300000 and I made 3000? Doesn't make sense...If he wants the complete program (all of it), he will have to pay me alot more than 3000, then I will also give him the source and he can THEN do with it what he wants

**********************************
May the Code Be With You...
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x50-8 (X Fifty Eigt)

 

[strongm]

>so he makes 300000 and I made 3000?

Yep...

Is it fair? Nope, but that's the way of the world. And your quotation that he signed sure makes it looks like he bought the whole thing and not a licence, so he can - sadly for you - do what he likes with it. Trying to apply new conditions after the sale may prove difficult.

 

[BiggerBrother]

It sounds aweful but you need to consider the following when you price your license:

* Can you sell this product to other companies / individuals yourself?
* How much time, or investment did you put in to complete this software? Has this one license covered ALL of your costs?
* How much time / movey does your software save the companies your are selling it to?
* How dependant on your software are the company?
* How much more can you do on more than 1 copy of the software?
* How much money do the company you are selling to have to buy the extra licenses?

I have just completed a similar project for a client. When he bought the first license, I gave him 1 site license for free. Now he can buy from me either batches of individual licenses (5, 10, 20 or 50) and/or site licenses.

Your pricing needs to take into account how much you think they can afford, and whether or not the product they are buying is worth the amount you are charging in the long term.

R3000 is approx £250.00, which isn't alot for a single user, depending on the complexity and usefulness of your product. If your app is something that other companies would find useful, then publish your website with a listing of what the software does, and who would find it useful. This way, you have a 'free' advert, if this client paid you enough to cover your costs, then any other purchases are easy money, and you can then sell it to them with an appropriate license.

Good Luck

BB

 

[x508]

Thanks to all.

BB, to answer some of the questions...

The program really isn't "that much", but it manages (and cashes up) all of their "Units" and puts out detailed reports of each and all of their units as well as each and all of their sites.

In short, this program cuts their manual "Excel" Month End / 10.

So in short, I think the program is worth what they paid, and I think that the other (Brother Sites), which also do precisely the same business as the current, will also run their whole "business" from it?

Any ideas..I have to meet with the client this afternoon and I am yet to decide on what to discuss with him.

Thanks for the replies and advice, as I am quite young and I need the opionions of people who have dealt with this before.

P.S. Should I be the good guy and let this one slip...to satisfy the client? If I do that I will be building the wong reputation not so? I'm not greedy, but I write software to make some bucks...

**********************************
May the Code Be With You...
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x50-8 (X Fifty Eigt)

 

[dyarwood]

If you were contracted to do write this program, were you technically working for the company. If so there may be something by where the company owns anything you come up with. I know that I have written several things within the company I work for but because I am contracted to them I could not charge anything for apps that I create. The company could say that they were employing you to do a task which they paid you for. Hence they would own it.

 

[x508]

No, I did the project as a freelance programmer who offered them a "Custom Software Solution".
They now want to use this solution in more than one places

**********************************
May the Code Be With You...
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x50-8 (X Fifty Eigt)

 

[BiggerBrother]

With licenses, you can spend alot of money getting a solicitor to create one for each of your apps, or just a simple generic one for all of your work. The easier way is to search your HDD for license.txt, and read someone elses. Don't just copy it, but use it to address the problem you have.

One way you can address your current client problem/issue is to offer him free upgrades for the next 12 months. This way if you find that there are any bug fixes he needs, he feels that he can come back to you for the next 12 months, and there is come reasurance. This also means, that should you need to change any other details, such as licensing, you can give him a free license for myapp 1.0.02, which is a multi user, single company app. He can still distribute myapp 1.0.01, your original, but he has now agreed to a new license on your FREE upgrade, and is then bound by this. It is a sneeky way to put the ball firmly back in your court, but it works, and as long as your user has to click "I agree" when they install your upgrade, then this is legally binding. You will probably have to include some text that nullifies all previous licenses, but this is standard in licenses any how.

Hope this helps.

BB

 

[x508]

I have a lot to think about now, and I will, but what do you think what I should charge him for the current licenses that he wants to give to the other businesses.

R750.00/license ?

??


**********************************
May the Code Be With You...
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x50-8 (X Fifty Eigt)

 

[BiggerBrother]

If you feel that R750 will cover enough of your expenses, then this price is OK. Also 1 x 750 is probably not enough, but if he has 20 4 other depots then this is then R3000. It might be worth offering him a discount the more he buys, this way he will be drawn into giving you more money! Hoorah!

Good luck

BB

 

[JeffTullin]

Top of the head, ball park figure...
If the original app is R3000, and they want to use it on another 4 machines, I would have been looking for R600 each machine, with an upper limit of 15 machines, after which unlimited use.

Your contract should have stated that you have sold USE of the program, not all rights to it, and that resale or distribution to other companies is prohibited.
(The chances of them actually reselling sounds slim in this case)

"he makes 300000 and I made 3000?"
not unless he resells, and that's piracy if your contract says so.

On a slightly related note, I signed up a resale agreement for one of my apps with a company a few years ago, and received an up-front royalty.
They ran into financial trouble, and sold on the rights to another company, who ended up selling the unsold stock to a bulk distributor.
I didnt get paid anything for the bankrupt stock, and now I find all kind of dodgy dealers selling what are (to them) perfectly valid copies of my software, undercutting me, and I get paid nothing for their sales.

Its a cruel world, and even if your contract is cast-iron, by the time it goes through a business collapse, it is far too expensive to chase up afterwards in a legal sense.
<Rant mode cancel>

 

[x508]

Thanks to all....I guesse now it's up to me?

I hate it when a client thinks that I am trying to do him in...

**********************************
May the Code Be With You...
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x50-8 (X Fifty Eigt)

 

[ZOR]

All very interesting postings, thanks all for putting in their comment. I am going down a similar road, where the client is not paying me, but is interested to discuss parting with money when the application is finished. It will get put on multiple PC's and the conversation so far has been open to all the pitfalls x508 has raised. How can one incorporate code that will prevent muliple copies, maybe an acompanying floppy that gets confirmation on installtion, that writes a file somewhere as confirmation, and then itself self destructs. Any ideas on single copy preservation. Sorry to gatecrash but I'm sure its of interest to others. Maybe should be a seperate posing? Thanks

 

[BiggerBrother]

If you only want the client to have a single user access to the software, then you can write a bespoke piece for HIS machine that reads the HDD number. The only issue is that the HDD number needs to either be encoded at design time, or hidden within a file, such as a picture file.

There are plenty of threads with ideas and solutions on how to license or copy protect your app in this forum. The conclusion that most come to though, is that the user must have a license for it to be enforcable. However, everything you do to protect your app is crackable, and so the protection is only there as a deterant. If you send out a license floppy, some users will not have a floppy drive on laptops etc, or will simply copy the floppy contents before installing this way.

You could try when the user starts the app, it gives them a product code. This is generated by a code for your app, their zip/post code in a numeric form and their HDD id number. In all, it should be about 12 - 20 characters.

They email you with this number, and you have an app running on your machine that recieves the email and automatically responds with a thank you and the product key. One will not work without the other, and as the user cannot alter the generated one, only the one you send will work. You then have the Postcode, email address and HDD number of your client, so should you ever get an email from someone who is pirating your software you can then trace this back.

We operate a similar system that compares the postcode to the email address when they register. If this is not correct, it sends an email back explaining that the data does not match, and either you have entered it wrong, or someone is trying to pirate software, using your data. This way we can also keep a track of how many machines our clients are installing our software on.

It does take a little work, but so far, our clients have been very happy with the process.

Good luck

BB

 

[ZOR]

Thanks BiggerBrother, very good suggestions, a good summary of whats out there and how you do it. Must look more at conceiling data within a picture file, and possibly adopting your method. Thanks again. Have a star for the time and good pointers.

 

[BiggerBrother]

steganography - altering images to store hidden data. Also used to add watermarks.

Thanks for the star.

BB

 

[strongm]

It probably won't surprise you to discover this isn't the first time steganography has been discussed in tghis forum. The following thread may be of some interest: Thread222-530751

 

[commsguy]

If he paid for the development (and it appears he did), then he owns it. If You wanted any other arrangement you should have explicitly stated it in your agreeement.

If i was him, i would pay you nothing additional, and use it as i wish. The law would be on my side.

Moral: Make sure you spell EVRYTHING out in your agreeement/contract.


commsguy

http://www.convetech.com

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

Yes, if you did time and materials work then the company probably owns the IP as well as the code. Yes you wrote the code but if you don't specify that you are retaining IP rights and specified the licensing at time of payment then you just don't have a leg to stand on. It seem that you didn't think how big this could be and now want to cash in.



Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

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