Forms question for Notes

[analogia22]

We currently are using IMail and are migrating to Exchange 2003 this week. We want the forms feature that Lotus Notes has because we don't think Exchange 2003 can offer it (please correct me if I'm wrong). I know nothing about Notes and would appreciate any input on this particular feature of it. Thanks.
Is it hard to setup and learn?
Do you need to know any programming to create the forms? Is there a thin client that will let you create the forms or is it done on the server?

 

[pmonett]

To do Notes development you need to install the Designer on a PC (not on the server !).
To understand the basics of Notes design you will need two or three months of practice, getting used to solving the puzzling error messages and finding out why your formula does not do what you expected it to do.
Notes development is not "hard", but you do need to forget everything you ever knew about Access or VB.

Many good places exist on the web to help you get started. Check out

http://www.keysolutions.com/NotesFAQ/

for starters.

Pascal.

 

[analogia22]

Thanks Pascal for the reply. Unfortunately I don't know any programming (strictly been a network/systems guy). So there's a client that's installed on the workstation huh? Is there only a fat client? Is there not a web portal for any of the development stuff? Does it talk to Exchange 2003 decently?
Ultimately, do you think Notes is the best solution for a small company that has multiple remote users for strictly the forms feature?

 

[pmonett]

Well, let me take this in order.
Is there only a fat client ? Yes. There is no such thing as hooking a web browser to the server to do Notes design. The Administrator can do almost everything via browser since R5, but the designer is a long way off from that and I don't think Lotus has even put it on the radar.
Does Notes talk to Exchange ? Well, your mileage may vary on that, but generally Notes will talk to any SMTP source, so it should. I'm only a Notes developer, so I don't know all that much about Exchange (thankfully).
Finally, is Notes a good solution for a small company with remote users ? I believe the answer depends on whether or not you have the resources to support the mission you give to it.
Is Notes just for email ? Then you basically need an administrator. Is Notes to be part of your application base ? Then you need an administrator AND a developer.
If you do not have the resources, then Notes is not the right answer. Then again, if you install Exchange without anybody knowing how it works, I do not expect that you'd be able to use it for very long either.
Notes is great for keeping remote users in contact. Discussion forums and database replication allow for whole applications to continue their function even though the users cannot log in to the network all day. There is a great amount of freedom and power to be found in Notes, but only if you have competent people to extract it.
Any tool used by a company must be mastered for it to be useful to the company, whatever its size.
The only thing going for Notes is that you only need two proficiencies to make it work. And you do not need to upgrade and/or reinstall it when you change Active Directory or upgrade the Windows OS ;-).
Domino has a great many tools that allow a developer to not worry about how it works. An administrator only has to find the right setting to activate a Domino function - no need to buy additional third party software in most cases (except fax stuff - that can be a nuisance).
I think Notes is a great product - I have been working with it for almost a decade now. But I realize that it is different and slightly unforgiving for the clueless manager. In other words, if you have no support for the server, you will hardly go farther than email with Notes.
But as I said, I don't think you can install an Exchange server and forget about either.

Pascal.

 

[analogia22]

WOW. That's a hand full. Thanks again for the response. I like to make very informed decisions so this will help me a lot.

 

[fishkake]

I don't know if this is relevant, but to give you a perspective, I knew nothing at all about Lotus Notes up until 2 months ago, and using only one book (The Lotus Notes and Domino 6 Programming Bible) and online resources such as this site, I consider myself semi-competent. I have a Domino server at home, purely for self-teaching, which took me about a week to get my head around, but now works seamlessly for email and other things. I can create new databases, set up workflows, pretty much everything on the basic level.

Domino Designer is a very friendly interface (although I haven't worked with many!) and the help files can usually tell you what you want to know quite easily. I have no experience whatsoever with Exchange I'm afraid, but I must say I've noticed a lot of posts on this site about integrating the two, and it seems to be quite possible.

If you want to explore, there's a free trial available through

http://notes.net

which is what I have at home. I run the server on a seperate machine, but I'm pretty sure you can run the server and the client on the same machine (somebody correct me if I'm wrong!). Basically all I wanted to point out was, as I said, that in 2 months I've picked up more than enough to set up ad work with Domino, and I'm not exactly Einstein, so it can't be that hard!!

 

[fishkake]

I don't know if this is relevant, but to give you a perspective, I knew nothing at all about Lotus Notes up until 2 months ago, and using only one book (The Lotus Notes and Domino 6 Programming Bible) and online resources such as this site, I consider myself semi-competent. I have a Domino server at home, purely for self-teaching, which took me about a week to get my head around, but now works seamlessly for email and other things. I can create new databases, set up workflows, pretty much everything on the basic level.

Domino Designer is a very friendly interface (although I haven't worked with many!) and the help files can usually tell you what you want to know quite easily. I have no experience whatsoever with Exchange I'm afraid, but I must say I've noticed a lot of posts on this site about integrating the two, and it seems to be quite possible.

If you want to explore, there's a free trial available through

http://notes.net

which is what I have at home. I run the server on a seperate machine, but I'm pretty sure you can run the server and the client on the same machine (somebody correct me if I'm wrong!). Basically all I wanted to point out was, as I said, that in 2 months I've picked up more than enough to set up ad work with Domino, and I'm not exactly Einstein, so it can't be that hard!!

 

[pmonett]

fishkake :

Technically you are right. However, Lotus has seperated Domino server and Notes client install CDs with good reason.
It is NOT a good idea to do development on the server box - at least not in a professional environment. You really want to avoid crashing the server, especially for mail or mission-critical environments.
Of course, for home use this consideration does not apply. Besides, it is not so easy to have multiple PCs lying around a home office.

Pascal.

 

[fishkake]

Yeah, I hadn't considered the crash thing...

Personally I run Domino For Linux, on a Redhat 9 box, and I am very, very impressed. I know practically nothing about linux, but with various websites I managed to get the tarball unpacked, and then the install is all text-based (non-GUI) for speed, and then I told it to listen for remote server setup, and used the Remote Server Setup Utility (included in Domino Administrator) from my Windows machine. All VERY well designed, VERY simple to set up and VERY stable once its running. The Linux box has 64MB of RAM and runs Domino permenantly - its crashed once, in about 3 months, and given the RAM I think thats pretty damn good!

By the way, to make a couple of comments on your response - firstly you said he'll have to forget everything about Access, thats about the most constructive thing anybody can do!! And secondly you assumed he was a manager, but he can't possibly be involved in management for one very good reason: He said he likes making informed decisions!!

 

[analogia22]

You guys are funny I am the net admin for my company, so I guess I'm the IT manager if you want to look at it like that.
Excuse my ignorance but did you say that you're running Domino on a Linux box? I hadn't even considered the option of running it on something other than Windows. I think I like that. My Linux knowledge is limited though so I'm not sure if I'd want to go onto two different foreign platforms at once.

 

[pmonett]

analogia22 :

Lotus has provided a Linux version of the Domino server since R4.6, if I'm not mistaken.
Of course, progress implies that it is much easier to set up a Linux box with a Domino server today than it was five years ago.
I do not know of any Linux Notes client however. I believe development still has to be done with a Windows OS and a Designer installed.
But with whatever server you have, you have no need for users to have a Notes client installed. You can use Domino with a browser out of the box with R6, so all mail-user clients have virtually nothing to install, whatever OS their PC is working under.

fichkake :

I see that a clarification is in order. I would never accuse anyone of being a manager if I had no proof ;-). When I mentioned the "clueless manager", it was with the idea that the manager typically does not understand anything about Notes, thus makes uninformed decisions concerning what should or not be done with it, thereby imposing impossible expectations on the product and the developer, which inevitably brings heated discussions and miserable failures, prompting the manager to conclude that Notes is worthless and, consequently, decide to make Outlook the corporate mail tool, and use Access for db stuff.
Cue the Notes developer throwing himself out the window.

Pascal.

 

[fishkake]

I downloaded Redhat 9 and burned 3 CDs - this was officially my first ever experience of Linux, and a couple of very easy hours later I had installed everything I needed. Then I followed a FAQ, not this particular one, but very similar:

http://www.createanapkin.com/help/r...8348e8d00d3e3f2585256a62006ed520?OpenDocument

Far, far easier than I thought it would be! Personally, I chose not to use the Linux GUI (64MB RAM...) and it is required for the java-based setup program of Domino (though not for Domino itself). So I installed the Domino Administrator client on my Windows machine, selecting the component "Remote Server Setup Utility," and during Domino's install (the part that copies files, not the java setup) I selected the option to listen for remote setup calls. Then you just put the Linux box IP address into the Remote Server Setup Utility and you can do the java bit on the other machine! But that was just me...

Also, don't be afraid to hit F1 during setup - Lotus help files are EXCELLENT in my opinion!