First real site 6

[johnwm]

This is my first try at a website (I've always done VB/Office automation/DB before)

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk/index.htm

Could you please have a look and give some critique re: layout, colours navigation etc. There is some more content to go on yet, but I wanted something to start from. It all seems to validate OK

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

 

[hotfusion]

Nice, simple layout - I like that. Too many sites are cluttered with annoying graphics.....

A point about the keywords - I have always been under the impression that the words or phrases must be separated by a comma. If that's the case, your keyword tag would just contain one enormous phrase. I'm uncertain of this point, so perhaps wait for someone else's input.

Also the JavaScript encoded email address: I browse with JavaScript disabled for unknown sites, as do about 10% of us apparently. It might be useful to incorporate the <noscript> tag to indicate that JavaScript is required to view the address if a JS disabled browser is used.

Regards, Andy.
**************************************
My pathetic attempts at learning HTML can be laughed at here:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/index.htm

 

[johnwm]

hotfusion
Thanks for your input. I have changed the keywords to a comma separated list.

all
I know it's pretty uninteresting, but someone must have something else to say!

Regarding the JS for email - is there a better (standard) way of providing a contact link without attracting the attention of spambots?

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

for steam enthusiasts

 

[Foamcow]

Keyword meta tags don't have much impact anymore since it was far too easy for unscrupulous site owners to spam search engines.

For more tips on Search engine optimistation take a look in forum828.

As for the site. I kind of like it, it's nice and simple.
A sugggestion I would make though is to distinguish the different areas of the page with variation in the area's background colour. Just putting borders around them can look a little weak.
I would also get rid of the "Back" button but only because I can't see why you have it there.
One last thing... either remove the borders from the image tables or use CSS to style them. Also use CSS to style the font used in tables to be the same as the body text.

Other than that, there's nowt dull 'bout steam lad. ;-)

Actually, you know what would make some great content? Some audio clips of the engines... Steam engines sound fantastic.

http://www.foamcow.com

"I'm making time

 

[hotfusion]

They smell lovely, too! That mixture of coal smoke and hot oil... I don't suppose they've cracked that feature in I.E. yet, have they??!

Anyhow, regarding javascripts to hide email addresses, this small script is simpler than yours, and still hides the address perfectly from the bots.
It uses my address at present, but is easily adapted:

user = "andywestcottpublic";
site = "tiscali.co.uk";
document.write('<' + 'a href=\"mailto:' + user + '@' + site + '\">');
document.write(user + '@' + site + '<' + '/' + 'a' + '>');

As you can see, the code simply re-assembles the component parts of the address for the page, but as they exist within the page, are meaningless to a searching bot.



Regards, Andy.
**************************************
My pathetic attempts at learning HTML can be laughed at here:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/index.htm

 

[johnwm]

Thanks for the input foamcow - the "Back" buttons are only supposed to be on the solo picture pages, but I got carried away!

I'll have a look into sound, but I'm worried about loading times. I'll have a go at the tables though.

Thanks again

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

for steam enthusiasts

 

[johnwm]

Thanks for the phone info Andy - I'll try that!

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

for steam enthusiasts

 

[Foamcow]

Regarding the sounds, don't have them automatically play when someone loads the page.
That would be a big no no!

Just offer them as links so people can download them if they want.
Likewise, short video clips of any events you go to.

The sort of thing Steam fans lap up ;-)


tables look much better too ;-)

http://www.foamcow.com

"I'm making time

 

[ChrisHunt]

A few thoughts:
[ul]
[li]Line up the top of the main content box with top of the the navigation box, it'll look neater.
[/li]
[li]The page title across the top doesn't really stand out. A brighter colour might help - yellow maybe? It's still going to be problematic in that position though, more on that story later...
[/li]
[li]I'd lose the thick green borders around the pictures. Consider using a left-floated <div> to hold each picture and its caption instead of a table, that way it will juggle them around to fit the available width. I find that giving photo images a 1px grey or light brown border can make it stand out better from the background.
[/li]
[li]If you're able to use scripts on your site, see if you can incorporate one that manages image galleries - it'd be good to be able to upload pics of steaming days etc. without having to hand-build the pages to display them.
[/li]
[li]The most prominent text on each page is the line which begins "Essex Steam - Real Steam Rollers - ..." (I'll call it a strapline). This it might (possibly) impress some search engines, but it doesn't appear to be of any use to people at all. Consider moving it out of the way to the bottom of the screen, or getting rid of it altogther.
[/li]
[li]That strapline is the natural location for the page title - the eye latches on your site logo, drifts down looking for a page title, then further down looking for the content. With your current layout I have to zig-zag around the page. Consider moving (or repeating) the page title to under the logo. You wouldn't then need to start each page with "Welcome to the whatever page".
[/li]
[li]Your markup contains some serious <hn> tag abuse. Top marks for using a styled <h1> for the page title across the top, minus several million for using a single <h4> for all the menu items and a <h3> for the strapline. Minus a gazillion for putting all the content of each page into a single <h5>. Use heading tags for headings. You might think you're going to get some SEO benefit from this trick, but you're more likely to get penalised for it in the long term. So don't do this:

<h5>Welcome to the Essex Steam site: Steaming Days page.<br />
  You can take your choice from a variety of pastimes.
<br/><br/>
1. Spectators view<br/><br/>

You can watch and relax as we fire up in the morning then take a gentle tour of the local countryside, stopping at a local pub for lunch before returning home in time for a cuppa. You can ride on the footplate, or sit on the comfortable seat on the trailer. Morning tea, lunch and afternoon cuppa are all included. A very relaxing and uncomplicated day.
<br/><br/>

Do this:

<h1>Steaming Days page.</h1>
<p>You can take your choice from a variety of pastimes.</p>
<h2>1. Spectators view</h2>
<p>
You can watch and relax as we fire up in the morning then take a gentle tour of the local countryside, stopping at a local pub for lunch before returning home in time for a cuppa. You can ride on the footplate, or sit on the comfortable seat on the trailer. Morning tea, lunch and afternoon cuppa are all included. A very relaxing and uncomplicated day.
</p>

[/li]
[li]Adding sound is a great idea (smell would be more of a challenge!). Just make sure it's something visitors opt in to explicitly - don't have the sound play automatically when a page is loaded, but have the visitor click a link to "Hear the Wallis & Steevens in action" or whatever.
[/li]
[/ul]
Hope you find some of that helpful.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[ChrisHirst]

Nice site & good subject.

Not much to add really, Your home page link should not be to index.htm but to the absolute domain name.
I agree with Chris on the "strapline" move it down to a page footer section.
And seemingly the "man in the street" searches for steamroller rather than steam roller according to NicheBot

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[hotfusion]

ChrisHurst,
if I could draw you a bit on your statement:
" Your home page link should not be to index.htm but to the absolute domain name."

This is the first time I've encountered this bit of advice - presumably there are advantages - could you outline what they are? I'm assuming it has something to do with SEO. Thanks!

Regards, Andy.
**************************************
My pathetic attempts at learning HTML can be laughed at here:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/index.htm

 

[ChrisHirst]

No problem.
The issue is one of how the SEs see the site. All these are seen as seperate URLs (broken to stop autolinking)
http://

http://www .domain.com/

http:// domain.com/
http://

http://www .domain.com/index.htm

http:// domain.com/index.htm

So because most of your external links will be just to the domain name, then using index.htm for internal links will split the link popularity between the two which may well reduce your ranking in the SERPs because external and internal links are to two different URLs.
Another important factor is if you change servers/hosts or need to use scripting/SSI and the home page will be index.php or default.asp there is no need to rejig your links as then it makes no difference what your default document, is the link will be the same.

HTH.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[newyorkny]

Hi John,

Good, clean site. Good use of white-errr GREEN space.

My initial impressions are that I do not love that shade of green. I associate it with polyester.

Also, I think the site is rather compromised by the 'Essex Steam' logo upper left on what I think is being called the strapline. I would be more impressed if Essex Steam had a more artistic logo. In this regard, it somewhat calls to mind the sites built with Frontpage 2.0 -- for me at least.

Also not enamored of the OTHER Essex Steam logo in the box thingy. Rather homely, if it's not rude of me to say.

Have you perhaps thought of taking the old Wallis Steevens logo and seeing if you can base yours theron? I have no idea what said logo might have looked like, but a possible avenue for exploration.

I think you have a good framework, and it's an interesting topic.

Best of luck to you. NY

 

[johnwm]

ChrisHunt
Thank you for your comprehensive input.
1. I'm working on a dilemma with lining stuff up. I had the left col set as absolute and the right col as relative. Looks great in Moz unfortunately doesn't line up in IE. If I make both absolute then they line up OK in both, but IE makes right col too wide for page!
2. I'm still working on best layout - see your point about main page title. I'm looking into gallery scripts (someone will point me to one I'm sure)
3. <hn> abuse. I've just found out what <p> is for and how to use it - OOPS!
4. Sound - I'll record some when I get a chance.

ChrisHirst
Thanks for your help. I will remedy the Home link. Thanks for the link to NicheBot - I just used the technical spelling - didn't occur to me that punters would spell it differently!

newyorkny
Sorry you don't like the green and the logo - in the UK they are very traditional 'steamy' things! Regrettably Wallis & Steevens ceased trading before the all-pervasive use of logos. The nearest they had was a brass plate styled just like the 'homely' Essex Steam. I need to keep in mind that I must avoid a 'whizzy' modern metaphor as my target audience is primarily looking for the Steam Tradition, and I feel that a commercial site shouldn't attempt to alienate its target clientele.

Thank you all again for your help - any further comments will be welcome. I expect to get the next version up by the end of the week

BTW - we've just had our first live enquiry for a Steaming Day from the site!

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

for steam enthusiasts