Slashdot has an article about how fewer students are entering computer science because of the slump in high-tech.
So, which is better, quality or quantity?
Chip H.
So, which is better, quality or quantity?
Chip H.
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Fewer students entering CompSci 6
- Thread starter chiph
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sleipnir214
Programmer
No-brainer: quantity.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
sleipnir214
Programmer
I lied. I'd much rather have one good IT person than 5 mediocre ones.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
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1
- #4
CajunCenturion
Programmer
Without a doubt - quality
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
I agree, the number of persons who have gotten into the I.T. field in the last 3-5 years far exceeds the current demand for workers.
It's a natural progression of fallout from the dot-com and downsizing. A lot of people (wrongly) got into this field because of insane salaries and job titles which weren't earned through hard work (dot-com/bomb era).
The people who will stick with I.T. are the ones who will make it, even in a downturn. The quote that sleipnir214
made about having one good I.T. person, is quite true.
A good I.T. person just doesn't happen, it takes years of experience and hard work to get to that stage. Even after a person reaches that stage, they MUST continue the hard work just to keep pace. A lot of students just don't seem to understand this simple (but true) fact.
It's a natural progression of fallout from the dot-com and downsizing. A lot of people (wrongly) got into this field because of insane salaries and job titles which weren't earned through hard work (dot-com/bomb era).
The people who will stick with I.T. are the ones who will make it, even in a downturn. The quote that sleipnir214
made about having one good I.T. person, is quite true.
A good I.T. person just doesn't happen, it takes years of experience and hard work to get to that stage. Even after a person reaches that stage, they MUST continue the hard work just to keep pace. A lot of students just don't seem to understand this simple (but true) fact.
sleipnir214
Programmer
All I know is that during the late 90's, everyone and his grandmother thought they needed to be "in computers". A lot of them should literally have been in computers -- locked in an old mainframe cabinet until they came to their senses.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
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- #7
There was an article I read a few years ago about a programmer who got hired to work on a smalltalk project -- he didn't know OO, and was expected to learn on the job. After 2 years he got tired of being a bother to the other, more knowledgable developers, and quit. Almost a year later he ran into his former manager and discovered he had been part of a test of programmer productivity - what they found out is that the very best developers are up to 18 times more productive than the average developer.
Chip H.
Chip H.
- Thread starter
- #8
Oh, and I've seen this sort of thing happen before... in the early 80's everyone wanted to learn computers so they could write the next big "Pac Man" game and make a million dollars. A year or two later, the computer science classes were hurting for attendance, as all these "get-rich-quick" types found out that programming was hard work.
Chip H.
Chip H.
At my UNI, the Comp Science major has dropped siginificantly. Most of the students are in Data Comms or Information Systems. I myself have background in java,C,C++ and .NET. The company I started working for only let me develop the smaller applications, whilst they seniors worked on the major projects. They were just simply too scared to put a college graduate onto big projects. Eventually I knew I was wasting my time and went back and am doing my honors.
Really, there a little opportunities for a good job in CS as compared to a few years back. Only the top 5% will really get a good CS job. Data Comms seems to be the hot area where I am at the moment.
Really, there a little opportunities for a good job in CS as compared to a few years back. Only the top 5% will really get a good CS job. Data Comms seems to be the hot area where I am at the moment.
Bullschmidt
Programmer
<<...what they found out is that the very best developers are up to 18 times more productive than the average developer.>>
But are the very best developers necessarily the most computer-educated developers?
Best regards,
J. Paul Schmidt - Freelance ASP Web Developer
- Creating "dynamic" Web pages that read and write from databases...
But are the very best developers necessarily the most computer-educated developers?
Best regards,
J. Paul Schmidt - Freelance ASP Web Developer
- Creating "dynamic" Web pages that read and write from databases...
CajunCenturion
Programmer
In my experience Bullschmidt - having been programming and for 30 years, I can unequivacally say that yes, the best developers are usually those who have a formal education (BS of better), and have been exposed to aspects of the science that are taken for granted by the self-taught programmers. There is a lot more to programming that being able to write code.
And BTW, computers weren't new in the 80's. The first electronic digital computers were built back in the 1940's. It was after 35 years of computer engineering that microcomputer (or PC) was developed in the late 70's and coming to market in the early 80's.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
And BTW, computers weren't new in the 80's. The first electronic digital computers were built back in the 1940's. It was after 35 years of computer engineering that microcomputer (or PC) was developed in the late 70's and coming to market in the early 80's.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
AIXSPadmin
MIS
The Atanasoff-Berry Computer was the world's first electronic digital computer. It was built by John Vincent Atanasoff and Clifford Berry at Iowa State University during 1937-42, but unfortunately because of the war they never finished it.
In 1939, Stibitz and S.B. Williams built the Complex Number Calculator, the world's first electrical digital computer. Its brain consisted of 450 telephone relays and 10 crossbar switches and it could find the quotient of two eight-place complex numbers in about 30 seconds. Three teletypewriters provided input to the machine.
In 1940, Stibitz took one of the teletypewriters to an American Mathematical Association meeting at Dartmouth, New Hampshire, and used it to communicate over phone lines with the Complex Number Calculator in New York. This was the world's first demonstration of remote computing.
The CNC, later renamed the Model 1 Relay Computer, remained in operation until 1949.
The ENIAC. The machine designed by Drs. Eckert and Mauchly was a monstrosity. When it was finished, the ENIAC filled an entire room, weighed thirty tons, and consumed two hundred kilowatts of power. It generated so much heat that it had to be placed in one of the few rooms at the University with a forced air cooling system. Vacuum tubes, over 19,000 of them, were the principal elements in the computer's circuitry. It also had fifteen hundred relays and hundreds of thousands of resistors, capacitors, and inductors. All of this electronics were held in forty-two panels nine feet tall, two feet wide, and one foot thick. They were arranged in a "U" shape, with three panels on wheels so they could be moved around.
Eckert and Mauchly went on to create EDIVAC, the first stored program computer. Last but not least, the first commercially available computer, the universal automatic computer (UNIVAC I), was also based on the EDVAC design. Work started on UNIVAC I in 1948, and the first unit was delivered in 1951, which therefore predates EDVAC's becoming fully operational.
1970 the first static and dynamic RAMs developed.
The first microprocessor, the 4004 was developed in 1971.
The 8008 microprocessor developed in 1972.
1973 the Xerox Alto computer.
1973 the Micral microcomputer.
1973 the Scelbi-8H microcomputer.
[This is probably where today began for PC's]
1974 the 8080 microcomputer developed.
1974 the 6800 microcomputer developed.
1975 MITS Altair 8800. Developed by Ed Roberts used Intel 8080 and was the first Microcomputer kit.
1975 IMSAI 8080. Developed Bill Millard. First Altair clone and Millard went on to found ComputerLand.
1975 IBM 5100. 16k storage, keyboard, CRT, BASIC, tape cartridge mass storage, $9,000 Assembled.
1977 Commodore PET. MOS 6502 chip, keyboard, tape drive & CRT, $595.
1977 Apple II, keyboard, cassette, game paddles, $1,298.
1977 TRS-80 Model 1, Developed by Radio Shack, Zilog Z-80 chip, $599.
1978 Atari 400. Best Graphics, $1,000.
1979 TI-99/A. TMS9900 16 bit processor, $1,150.
1980 Commodore VIC-20. Modem interface, ROM cartridge slot
$299.
1981 Osborne 1. First portable 5 inch display, Bundled software, $1,795.
1981 IBM PC. Intel 8088 chip, MS-DOS, $3,005
1982 Commodore 64. Microsoft BASIC, Non MS-DOS, $595.
1982 TRS-80 Model 100. Laptop portable, ROM software, 4 pounds, $800.
1983 Apple LISA. First commercial GUI, 5 meg hard drive
$9,995.
1983 HP-150. Intel 8086 chip, 3.5 inch floppy drive, touch screen interface, $3,995.
1984 Apple Macintosh. Motorola 68000 chip, $2,495.
1986 Compaq 386. Phoenix BIOS, First 386 based microcomputer, $6,500.
1987 NeXT. Developed by Steve Jobs, Motorola 68030, Magneto Optical Drive, Unix operating system with GUI, $10,000.
1989 Compaq Deskpro. 486 chip, tower system box server & desktop models, $13,999.
1994 DEC Alpha. DEC Alpha 64 bit RISC chip, Windows NT
$9,995.
1995 Micron Pro. Pentium Pro chip, Windows NT, $5,995.
In 1939, Stibitz and S.B. Williams built the Complex Number Calculator, the world's first electrical digital computer. Its brain consisted of 450 telephone relays and 10 crossbar switches and it could find the quotient of two eight-place complex numbers in about 30 seconds. Three teletypewriters provided input to the machine.
In 1940, Stibitz took one of the teletypewriters to an American Mathematical Association meeting at Dartmouth, New Hampshire, and used it to communicate over phone lines with the Complex Number Calculator in New York. This was the world's first demonstration of remote computing.
The CNC, later renamed the Model 1 Relay Computer, remained in operation until 1949.
The ENIAC. The machine designed by Drs. Eckert and Mauchly was a monstrosity. When it was finished, the ENIAC filled an entire room, weighed thirty tons, and consumed two hundred kilowatts of power. It generated so much heat that it had to be placed in one of the few rooms at the University with a forced air cooling system. Vacuum tubes, over 19,000 of them, were the principal elements in the computer's circuitry. It also had fifteen hundred relays and hundreds of thousands of resistors, capacitors, and inductors. All of this electronics were held in forty-two panels nine feet tall, two feet wide, and one foot thick. They were arranged in a "U" shape, with three panels on wheels so they could be moved around.
Eckert and Mauchly went on to create EDIVAC, the first stored program computer. Last but not least, the first commercially available computer, the universal automatic computer (UNIVAC I), was also based on the EDVAC design. Work started on UNIVAC I in 1948, and the first unit was delivered in 1951, which therefore predates EDVAC's becoming fully operational.
1970 the first static and dynamic RAMs developed.
The first microprocessor, the 4004 was developed in 1971.
The 8008 microprocessor developed in 1972.
1973 the Xerox Alto computer.
1973 the Micral microcomputer.
1973 the Scelbi-8H microcomputer.
[This is probably where today began for PC's]
1974 the 8080 microcomputer developed.
1974 the 6800 microcomputer developed.
1975 MITS Altair 8800. Developed by Ed Roberts used Intel 8080 and was the first Microcomputer kit.
1975 IMSAI 8080. Developed Bill Millard. First Altair clone and Millard went on to found ComputerLand.
1975 IBM 5100. 16k storage, keyboard, CRT, BASIC, tape cartridge mass storage, $9,000 Assembled.
1977 Commodore PET. MOS 6502 chip, keyboard, tape drive & CRT, $595.
1977 Apple II, keyboard, cassette, game paddles, $1,298.
1977 TRS-80 Model 1, Developed by Radio Shack, Zilog Z-80 chip, $599.
1978 Atari 400. Best Graphics, $1,000.
1979 TI-99/A. TMS9900 16 bit processor, $1,150.
1980 Commodore VIC-20. Modem interface, ROM cartridge slot
$299.
1981 Osborne 1. First portable 5 inch display, Bundled software, $1,795.
1981 IBM PC. Intel 8088 chip, MS-DOS, $3,005
1982 Commodore 64. Microsoft BASIC, Non MS-DOS, $595.
1982 TRS-80 Model 100. Laptop portable, ROM software, 4 pounds, $800.
1983 Apple LISA. First commercial GUI, 5 meg hard drive
$9,995.
1983 HP-150. Intel 8086 chip, 3.5 inch floppy drive, touch screen interface, $3,995.
1984 Apple Macintosh. Motorola 68000 chip, $2,495.
1986 Compaq 386. Phoenix BIOS, First 386 based microcomputer, $6,500.
1987 NeXT. Developed by Steve Jobs, Motorola 68030, Magneto Optical Drive, Unix operating system with GUI, $10,000.
1989 Compaq Deskpro. 486 chip, tower system box server & desktop models, $13,999.
1994 DEC Alpha. DEC Alpha 64 bit RISC chip, Windows NT
$9,995.
1995 Micron Pro. Pentium Pro chip, Windows NT, $5,995.
sleipnir214
Programmer
AIXSPAdmin:
Don't forget Colossus, which went online in 1944 at the U.K.'s Bletchley Park cryptanalysis services site. It was used to find German Enigma keycodes during World War 2.
It's one of the more quiet accomplishments in computer science -- the U.K. didn't declassify it until 1970.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
Don't forget Colossus, which went online in 1944 at the U.K.'s Bletchley Park cryptanalysis services site. It was used to find German Enigma keycodes during World War 2.
It's one of the more quiet accomplishments in computer science -- the U.K. didn't declassify it until 1970.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
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1
- #15
dilettante
MIS
A lot of 6502 history missing from the 1970s there too, as well as other influential 1980s machines such as the Amiga. Don't forget the 1802, several of which are still active on the fringes of the solar system in deep-space probes.
The late 50s and early 60s were pretty crowded as well as the 60s through 70s in the mainframe and mini worlds. Hard to be sure which constituted "milestones" but many 1960s architectures are still produced in some form today: Burroughs B5000 descendents, System/360 descendents, Univac 1100 descendents... all 3 still in active service in new models being produced right now.
Most true "computer science" had already been done by 1960. Most of what remained to be accomplished was engineering, though AI, machine vision, and artifical language didn't take off until the 60s. For the most part we're still waiting on those.
The Mac/PC era represents commodity computing more than anything else. Most other desktop computing platforms were dead or hanging by a thread by 1990, mostly due to economics of scale.
The late 50s and early 60s were pretty crowded as well as the 60s through 70s in the mainframe and mini worlds. Hard to be sure which constituted "milestones" but many 1960s architectures are still produced in some form today: Burroughs B5000 descendents, System/360 descendents, Univac 1100 descendents... all 3 still in active service in new models being produced right now.
Most true "computer science" had already been done by 1960. Most of what remained to be accomplished was engineering, though AI, machine vision, and artifical language didn't take off until the 60s. For the most part we're still waiting on those.
The Mac/PC era represents commodity computing more than anything else. Most other desktop computing platforms were dead or hanging by a thread by 1990, mostly due to economics of scale.
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- #16
Sorry but the worlds first stored program computer was at Manchester University. 1948, the Baby built by Kilburn and Williams. Program written by Kilburn. Storage medium was an adapted cathode ray tube. EDIVAC was started first but Baby got there first.
Craig
Craig
CajunCenturion
Programmer
Whether we're talking about the first electronic digital computer or the first stored program computer is not really the issue. They are both monumental achievments in the birth of this wonderful industry.
To me the issue is around those persons who believe that the computer industry started with the first commercial PC as we've seen postulated by a couple of people in other threads.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
To me the issue is around those persons who believe that the computer industry started with the first commercial PC as we've seen postulated by a couple of people in other threads.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
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2
- #18
But I wasn't in the field until the 90's...you mean there were computers before me? 
It's like the internet, you tell people you hve been on the internet more the 7 or 8 years and they think your smoking something beside grey matter
-Tarwn
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It's like the internet, you tell people you hve been on the internet more the 7 or 8 years and they think your smoking something beside grey matter
-Tarwn
01010100 01101001 01100101 01110010 01101110 01101111 01101011 00101110 01100011 01101111 01101101
29 3K 10 3D 3L 3J 3K 10 32 35 10 3E 39 33 35 10 3K 3F 10 38 31 3M 35 10 36 3I 35 35 10 3K 39 3D 35 10 1Q 19
Get better results for your questions: faq333-2924
Frequently Asked ASP Questions: faq333-3048
CajunCenturion
Programmer
How true Tarwn. A good laugh deserves a star.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
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