Exchange Basics needed 1

[raw]

Hi,

I've just started a new job and the person who recruited me wants me to go to a meeting next week to discuss the implementation of MS Exchange server.

She wants me there to cut through the marketing hype that the vendor will no doubt use. The main difficulty with this is I have very little knowledge of Exchange.

Can any of you recommend a good summary/overview of Exchange and its strengths/weaknesses and any suitable competitors.

The proposed site is a charity with about 100 nodes and a couple of remote sites who currently connect via an ISDN line, they currently used web based email and VPOP3.

Any help gratefully received.

Thanks.

 

[fluid11]

I would recommend a Lotus Domino / Lotus Notes solution. In my opinion, its a more stable platform and you have the option of which OS to run it on: Windows NT/2000, Solaris, Linux, AS/400... With Domino, users have the option to use either Notes or Outlook on the client side. Domino is cheaper, more stable, and you get free upgrades for 2 years and free tech support.

Chris

 

[meekrob]

An Exchange implementation is an expensive one. Do not contemplate running exchange without first adding up Windows 2000 server licenses, Exchange server licenses, and client access licenses for each client. Then you add an antivirus solution and some sort of a firewall to protect your insecure Exchange server. Also plan on spending a lot of time massaging quirky exchange problems.

We chose exchange based on the strengths of outlook, and technically exchange is easy to program custom applications for. Unfortunately it has been less than reliable, and far more expensive than we first anticipated. Also the shared calendar features are weak, even compared to the ancient groupwise system we were using before.

As a charity my suggestion to you is to use a Linux qmail server. Qmail has a stellar (near perfect) security record and is rock stable. After our security problems with exchange, we installed a qmail server to act as a gateway between our exchange server and the internet. It took me 4 hours to set up and I haven't touched it since! It serves a double purpose. One it has strong application security so I am more confident that it can stand exposed to the internet. Two it collects our company's email when exchange locks up inexplicably in the middle of the night.

Qmail and linux are free. If you can't set it up yourself, let me know where you are located and I will put you in contact with a consultant.

 

[fluid11]

Yes, I agree with meekrob.

Meekrob, you mentioned that the main reason you went with Exchange is so that users can use the Outlook client. Why not run Lotus Domino R5 on a Linux or Unix box? Domino gives you the option of Notes, Outlook, or a web browser as the client. Using Domino on a UNIX/Linux implementation, eliminates the server license, the CALs, and the anti-virus software. It could also elimate the backup software as you can use native tar and cron commands to back up to a tape device locally.

ChrisP

 

[ashleym]

Raw you have not mentioned which version of Exchange you will be discussing, but I will assume 2000.

There are several books on Exchange out there, I would suggest visiting the nearest Barnes and Noble or major book store and look around. I bought the Exchange 2000 Server Administrators surivival guide, ISBN#0764547828

Its not bad, just not advanced enough for me, but it would be a good place to start for you.

Slipstick.com is an excellent website for information.

Check out Microsofts website, there are often online presentations you can download on subjects like exchange planning and implementation. Let me know if you have any trouble finding them and I can help you out.

Exchange is certainly complex, if you going to be discussing Exchange 2000 then you will need a good understanding of Windows 2000 and Active Directory, as Exchange 2000 sits on top of active directory.

Good Luck!
Ashleym

 

[meekrob]

fluid11-

I have set up Domino in a training environment before, it seems like a nice product. Can you do shared calendars with Outlook and Domino? It's a little to late for us, we've already made a huge investment in Exchange...

 

[MIScoord]

Wow. Didn't know there were that many folks out there who don't like Exchange. For my money, it's not that bad of a product, especially for someone as small as you look like you will be. The company I work for is also a charity and similar in size and scope. We have had Exchange 2000 running for three months (with little or no problems) and 5.5 running for two years before that (with little or no problems). You should also get very good pricing on it because you are a charity.

Ashleym was right to say that you will need to have a good knowledge of W2K Server and Active Directory to implement Exchange 2K. It depends on AD to work. Installation is pretty complicated and the literature from Microsoft stinks. The Exchange Resource Kit is especially impossible to make sense of unless you are a power user. I'd definitely go third party on books. I don't have a recommendation on Exchane, but the best W2K Server book our there is "Mastering Windows 2K Server" by Mark Minasi hand down.

I can't speak to any of the other solutions presented here because I've never used them, but in our environment, Exchange works pretty well. Me: We need a better backup system.
My boss's boss: Backup? We don't need no stinkin' backup!

 

[meekrob]

MIScoord:

It's not that I hate Exchange, it's just that I've had a much better experience with other products. Also not being a small charity, we ended up paying over 25k for our email solution. To top it off, when we had a problem they wanted to charge us 250$ per incindent for support. I've also had to apply two major security fixes in the past 45 days. wah!

The bottom line is I'm a long time Exchange Administrator who has had exposure to Groupwise, Domino and Exchange 5.5 and 2000. I've also had experience running Sendmail and Qmail on linux. Sendmail was insecure and difficult to administrate.

This is definitely one of those areas where linux is very, very strong. These guys are already running POP3 and Webmail, so they wouldn't even need to migrate clients. It's not that I hate Microsoft Exchange. It's just that compared to a product that is free, stable and secure I have to recomend qmail on linux.

http://www.qmail.org/

 

[fluid11]

meekrob - I'm actually new to Domino & Notes, but it can do anything that Exchange does and a lot more. We've been running Win2K and Exchange2K now for over a year and I'm planning a move to Domino on either a Solaris or Red Hat box. Although we've already put money into Exchange/Windows, this will save us more money in the long run. Microsoft's licensing is out of control and I refuse to pay for any of their inferior server products from this point on.

If you want to talk about licensing, take a look at Windows vs. either Unix/Linux or NetWare 6. Unix/Linux is free and with NetWare, you only have to buy 1 server license regardless of how many servers you install. You can buy 1 server license and install 200 NetWare 6 servers. Both NetWare and Linux are much better products in my opinion, and obviously a lot cheaper.

ChrisP

 

[fluid11]

Unlike meekrob, I do HATE Exchange and all other M$ products, except for Age of Empires 2 and Motorcross Madness 2. Both excellent games that are worth paying the licensing fees for

ChrisP

 

[raw]

Great info, thanks for your help.

Fortunately I will not be responsible for installing/setting up Exchange, this is just a presentation by a vendor. The office isn't even running Win2K yet, at the moment the NOS is Netware 5.0.

The idea for installing Exchange is based on the premise that we will be upgrading the network to a Win2K based solution in the next few months. Although they are still thinking about Netware 6.0 too.

To be honest this is my first IT position, after having done a couple of entry level qualifications, hence my knowledge is somewhat limited and narrow in scope. In addition the charity has never had any real "in-house" IT support before; I am the IT department for the next few months!!

Fortunately I am not expected to be able to revolutionise their systems and I am not being paid for that either!! but obviously I want to be able to make a good impression at this first meeting.

As far as I am aware they have not yet even considered using Linux as a solution, so maybe this is something I can put forward.

Thanks again.

 

[fluid11]

Here's my recommendation now that I know a little bit about the situation. Upgrade to NetWare 6 and stay away from Win2K. NetWare is the best file server on the planet and it will save you a lot of money! If you need an email server, however, stay away from NetWare for that purpose. Novell's GroupWise sucks. Go with Domino or one of meekrobs Linux suggestions (qmail, postfix...).

How many servers do you have and what do they do?

ChrisP

 

[raw]

How many servers?

Well one at the minute!! Novell 5.0 acting as a file and print server.

I've basically got a big mess to sort out, they don't have an internet server of any description, each computer that has internet access connects via an individual 56kbps modem and an adapter for the RJ11 jack. The LAN is used for nothing more than moving files around printing and installing AV updates.

The IT has been upgraded on an "as and when needed" basis so they don't even know what they have and what OS's/applications everyone is running. They don't have anyone who can restore from backup or any kind of documented disaster recovery plan. In addition the firm that used to provide support went bust so they have changed firms in the last few months and hence there appears to be no documentation at all and no support for the network side of things.

One of the reasons they are talking about exchange is that the web-based email they are using is unreliable, now this could be for any number of reasons, (I'm expected to sort it out!!) In any case they were thinking about jacking this in and hosting their own email/web servers and using VPN's to connect the remote sites rather than having ISDN lines.

Now as I said this is all very much up in the air, I've been there for less than a day to have a look around etc. and these ideas are based on what vendors are telling them they need, or should have, rather than their own knowledge, hence the need for me to be present to hopefully cut through some of the BS.

Regarding Netware 6.0, my understanding is that this is really Novell's "last stand" against the encroaching market share of MS, couldn't this lead to trouble with support in the future if they lose?

 

[fluid11]

I don't think that Novell is going under anytime soon. I hear that they have a lot of money and they are going to start a big marketing campaign.

As far as Novell support goes, you shouldn't need any after the server is up and running. Thats what Novell does. Sometimes NetWare can give you problems when you first set it up, but once its up, its up for good. Your hardware will fail before the NOS does. Novell is all about being reliable. The monitor utility in Novell shows the uptime of the server. This has been known to go into years! When was the last time a Windows server was up for that long? NEVER, because you have to install those critical updates all of the time. I have 2 NetWare 5.1 servers here and they have been up for a few months now; I don't even have to do anything to them. The only reason they were down a few months ago, was because I replaced a failing UPS. The opposite is my 3 Windows 2000 servers that I have to babysit everyday and examine their logs and figure out why services aren't starting, etc... These Win2K servers are going to be migrated to Red Hat Linux 7x and possible Solaris 8.

ChrisP
CNE (NW5), CCNA, MCSE (2K/NT4), Linux+, LPIC, Server+, i-Net+, Network+, A+, CIWA

 

[raw]

Right then in summary you are telling me:

Exchange can be expensive - because of server licenses for Win2K server, but this shouldn't be too much of an issue for the relatively small user base.

You can use Lotus Notes/Lotus Domino instead and this will sit on top of Active Directory, like Exchange.

Domino will allow you to use Outlook as a client.

Exchange can be difficult to administer, and has security and reliability issues (like everything MS!!).

Another solution would be Linux running Qmail - free, solid security and reliability.

Domino can also run on a Linux box.

Don't use Novell's Groupwise as an email server if we do end up using Netware 6.0.

 

[forbsy]

Just wanted to say that this was a really good thread. That's why I love this site. It cuts through the crap and unbiased. I learned a few things from this thread myself.

Thanx
-Forbsy

 

[fluid11]

Sort of...

Exchange is expensive because you will need 4 things - Windows 2000 Server license, Exchange 2000 Server license, Windows CALs for every user that will access the server, and Exchange CALs for every user that will access Exchange. Also, if you run Exchange, it is highly recommended to have a separate Windows 2000 server that will serve as a domain controller. This, will cost you another Win2K server license and CALs for every user that will access this server. So if you have 20 users, you will need 2 Win2K server licenses ($1600) and 40 Win2K CALs (about $40 per) and 20 Exchange CALs (about $70 per).

Linux is free. If you run Domino on Linux, then all you need to buy is 1 Domino Server license, and a CAL for each client. Domino has nothing to do with Active Directory (thats a Windows thing). Domino will do everything that Exchange does, plus a lot more. Domino allows you to use your choice of Outlook, Lotus Notes, or a web browser as the client. Domino can run on top of either Solaris, Linux, Windows, and AS/400.

Yes, Exchange has major security holes like all M$ products. As far as administering the server, Exchange and Domino are both difficult, but Domino will be far more stable.

Yes, you could also go with Linux and qmail (or postfix). This wouldn't cost you anything, but this is only an SMTP server. It doesn't do any calendering or scheduling and all of that other stuff that Domino and Exchange do. If your only looking for a POP3 solution, then definetly go with something like qmail or postfix, along with a pop3 server. Exchange and Domino aren't worth the money if all you want is POP/SMTP mail.

And yes, Groupwise sucks, unfortunately.


ChrisP

 

[mahitha]

Hi there,
I have a VB app which connects to my Exchange server using ADO(Exoledb.provider) successfully if worked on Exchange Server. But when I access the Exchange from a remote machine opening with HTTP URL, the Record object connects, but Connection.open fails throwing error "3706- Provider not installed properly". I worked on above mentioned workarounds, but failed. I installed all MDAC versions and registered dlls. I donno why Connection.open alone fails, when Record.open works successfully.
Pls help me outta these frens, its been two weeks since I'm slogging on this.

 

[SteveTheGeek]

mahitha,
You'd probably get more responses if you started a new thread with your question.
-Steve