Dead system...mobo or cpu? 3

[crazy888s]

I just got my new pc together. here are some specs:

GIGABYTE GA-7N400-L1 NVIDIA nFORCE2 ULTRA 400
AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ BARTON 1.83GHZ (AXDA2500BOX) 333MHZ W/512K L2 CACHE
2 sticks of APACER 512MB PC3200 400MHZ NON-ECC DDR
ATI RADEON 9200 128MB 8XAGP DDR
350watt power supply

I'm sure that's all you need to know. Anyways, i read alot that the athlon 2500+ Barton is a great overclocker. I have 1 fan in the back and a pci slot fan blowing out, then one on the top blowing in, then the HSF that came with my Athlon :S. The temp never got above 46 degrees Celsius whenever i would check the bios. well, i had the processor FSB overclocked to 400MHz to match my RAM and i didnt lower the mulitplier or anything. that worked great until i got greedy. I turned its voltage up from 1.67 to 1.75 no problem. Then i went to 1.80 and bumped my agp voltage +0.1 and my RAM voltage +0.1 just to see what kind of results i could get. Windows all booted, i was about to run sandra and zap...dead system. no beeps or anything except for a buzzing sound that was coming from my PC Speaker (not the standard beeping, and not like a stuck keyboard). i tried resetting cmos, removing RAM, removing Video card, different combinations, and all had same results with the PC speaker noise that was not normal beeping i expected. the mobo lights are coming on, fans coming on, just no boot. i took out the processor and the noise stopped...put it back in and the sound came back. either way, there was still no standard beeping from the mobo. that's why i think i screwed up my $88 processor (no biggie, but this still sucks), but maybe it's the motherboard...? maybe something else? any ideas as to what it could be?

 

[adkmom]

"Put the motherboard in or on the cardboard box it came in or another box if it is an OEM board. Do not put it on the bag it came in.

Connect the power supply, front panel power switch, CPU with the Heatsink and fan and the case speaker, RAM, Video, monitor, keyboard.

Turn on the power supply and the front panel power switch, the fans should run.

You should now have the POST display on the monitor.

Turn off the power supply at the supply and disconnect the power cord.

"pre-xp"
(Add the floppy drive and insert your startup diskette.

Turn on the power supply and the front panel power switch, the fans should run.

The computer should now boot to whatever OS is on the floppy.

Turn off the power supply at the supply and disconnect the power cord.)-
"pre-XP"

This will take you a short time but it will tell you everything you tested is good so if it doesn't work after it's in the case you have something connected wrong or the motherboard is shorted to the case or...

Be sure you insulate the board from the case using the insulating washers that came with the case, use washers on the top and bottom of the board, except the one place where it must be grounded, you can tell this as it is the only hole that has silver color(solder) all around it.

If the computer passed this test, add whatever else you have one at a time, testing the system when you add each thing,. ie. HDD, CD/DVD, other cards...


Other than this basic rule of thumb, the only sure check is to either run the cpu in a different board or try another known-working cpu in yours?

Mom

 

[crazy888s]

yeah, i wish i had extra stuff to try in there. i went ahead and ordered another Athlon 2500+ processor just to test (and hopefully fix) my problem cause the basic rule of thumb wont get me past POST. To more accurately describe the sound my pc speaker makes (only when processor is in): it sounds like an old DOS racing game where the car starts slower, then speeds up for like 2 seconds, then stays constant....'verrrrrrooooooooooooooooooooooo....etc.' hmmmm?

 

[paparazi]

adkmom,
I am not sure you realise that most full sized ATX motherboards have around 9 silver soldered mounting points that all should be directly screwed to the brass standoff's (without insulating washers)
These fibre washers are used on the PCI & AGP cards so when the screw is tightened the bracket and card don't twist.
I admit that I have seen several differant views on there application but as I understand it, the motherboard needs to be earthed for supression compliance (to comply with appliance interference regulations)
These mounting points are not necessarily for earthing as they are an addition to the main harness earthing through the power supply but are important all the same.
Sorry this post is off topic,
Does anyone have documented proof of the correct use of these washers? I would be interested to see and read.
Martin



Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[adkmom]

Paparazi-

The fiber washers are placed under the screw head- not between the board & standoff.

Mom

 

[etarhan]

I wonder why I don't feel pity for people who get their hardware burned because of overclocking.

Can it be because I think that overclocking is equivalent to trying to drive a car over the recommended speed (or rpm) limit?

Can it be because I think that overclocking is equivalent to feeding the household plants with vitamins in order to see them grow faster and bigger - only to see them dead almost immediately after you run out of vitamin pills?

Engin

 

[edfair]

The fibre washers were originally supplied with the 8088 clones for use on the top of the board when the M/B traces came close enough to the holes that the screw heads would break through the board coating and ground out lines.
Depending on the board construction and the board support drilling you might need to use one on the bottom. Depends on whether the support hole has a surrounding ground pad on the bottom large enough to insure that a metal support post doesn't overlap circuitry. Some support holes don't have the pad and the case has a threaded hole forcing a metal standoff. Unless, of course, you somehow have acquired threaded plastic ones.
Depending on the size of the screw heads you may or may not need insulators on the top. As a rule, I use standoffs with metric drilling and screws with small heads so I don't need them.

Ed Fair
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[crazy888s]

etarhan-

i dont pity myself either for screwing my stuff up. it's just a hobby and it's exciting...much like driving over the speed limit...yes, nice call....gives me a rush and it's exciting! If you can find a stable setting though, the feeling of pride is awesome, and that's really not too much to ask unless you get too greedy, as i did. And the CPU was only $88, so it's not an enormous amount of cash IF that's all the problem is. just that stupid race car sound boggles my mind...

 

[mainegeek]

Have you tried clearing the cmos?

 

[crazy888s]

yeah, i said that already. there's not a jumper, but i pulled the battery. i know there's no juice left in my motherboard either cause i've had the battery out for days. So CMOS should be clean.

 

[Gloryhound]

Usually when you kill an AMD CPU you will get bizzarre reactions from your MOBO, sometimes you won't get error beeps anymore or you will find that the error beeps your getting are wrong. Still the AMD cache configuration is so sensative to heat and operational voltages that even a momentary lapse in correct voltage or heat control will result in a dead processor due to all it's memory structure getting deep fried. My advice to you would be to replace the CPU like your going to do. How ever I don't think the CPU was the cause. It's most likely your power supply inability to supply a stable voltage increase across the board like you implimented. AMDs are not for the average user they are not sufficently engineered to handle adverse conditions such as tinkering hobbiest. So be prepared to do some research on overclocking before tinkering. Lots of people have already fried their processors figuring out what not to do, learn from them. Have fun overclocking. Cheers

 

[paparazi]

edfair
It makes sense.
I guess modern motherboard design and the fact that more novices are now building PC's means that the manufactures are more generous with size of the mounting area and careful not to have lines too close to mount points, it's in there interest to minimize the number of returns?
Martin

Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[ANFPS26]

Martin, this procedure mentions the washers:

http://www.uscomputer.net/installmb.htm

Jim

 

[edfair]

Biggest reason it the large scale integration. You don't need to run traces all over the board like you used to.

Ed Fair
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[crazy888s]

thanks for all the advice! I'll be gone for a week and my processor will come in when I'm gone. So I'll fill you guys in when I get back next week and can try it out. thanks again!

 

[tuco7]

Crazy888s There is a very good posibility that the CPU may not be able to overclocked to the setting you want and when that happens , windows and the bios have a conflict, most motherboards do have a bios reset jumper, refer to your owners manual and then set up the bios and set the cpu to the proper bus , I have had that happen so many times in overclocking computers when the CPU wont take the overclock you want to give it wont post or go to windows and fail, then zap screen goes black and you have nothing..


Tuco

 

[KIDA1973]

crazy888s - I have read over the previous replies and did not see anyone mention this:

While waiting for the new CPU you might pull your memory and inspect the modules closely for burn marks. You may have burned a memory stick. Not as likely as some other things, but something you might as well check...you could also remove the MOBO and visually inspect it for burn marks as well...did you smell anything funny after the system shut down (right before you went to run Sandra?)
I supose you could even pull the processor and wipe off the thermal paste and inspect it for damage, but if it isn't the processor you may damage it anyway!!!

Cheers,


Matthew Janes

Everything in its right place...

 

[crazy888s]

OK, the new CPU is in....i was pretty certain it was the problem, but i had a bad feeling all at once. I took the time to make sure it was all uninstalled and reinstalled properly (cleaned the old fan/heat sink with alcohol, applied new thermal greese, etc.) I booted it up...and of course that did nothing! haha...just my luck. It had the same symptoms as before. I'm taking it to work with me tomorrow because we have alot of parts laying around that i'm going to try...ram, video card, power supply. We also have a voltage meter so i can see if the current power supply is putting out the proper power. If none of these parts fix it, then it has to be the motherboard. cant wait to try!

yeah tuco7, i've had that happen too with the cpu not being able to handle the settings, and clearing the bios usually fixes that. I've checked the board over and over and cant find a jumper to clear it anywhere. I know, and the manual supports, that if there's not one, then you should pull the battery (the manual says 'if' cause it's a manual for the entire family of GA-7N400 boards, and i guess some have one and some dont). and the diagram of my board in the manual doesnt show a BIOS jumper either...

Matthew- no burn marks or anything unusual to my inspection. When it happened, i know that there was no funny smell either. I had the case open immediatly too, so surely if there was one, i would have noticed.

 

[crazy888s]

It was the power supply! stupid thing...350W and couldnt handle giving my system a little extra juice. count on me to buy at least a 400W, maybe 500W. I now have 2 processors though and could have some fun with one of them...hehe. thanks for all the input! let me be an example to others who may have 'race car noises' not to assume its the CPU right away... i'm ashamed with myself.