CR9 (or CR in General) vs. SQL???

[OrionStar]

Can someone with extensive knowledge in both SQL and Crystal tell me the benefits of Crystal OVER SQL?

What are some reasons that you use Crystal instead of SQL.??

Thanks
M

"A man is only as happy,... as he makes up his mind to be...

 

[vidru]

Can you rephrase the question? It could be interpreted as:

1) benefits of having CR create the SQL to get data vs. using SQL stored procedures (or Commands)
2) benefits of CR vs. SQL Server Reporting Services
3) ????

As written, comparing Crystal (a reporting tool) to SQL (a languaged used to retrieve data from a SQL-type database) doesn't make a whole lot of sense - at least not to me.

-dave

 

[OrionStar]

Ahhh I see. So then, SQL is a "language" and Crystal is a reporting tool. Ok then, IS there an advantage of USING Crystal INSTEAD of SQL Server, in retrieving DATA?

And I realize that it may come down to preference, but I'm mainly interested in the following factors:

Ease of use?
Flexibility?
Data table Contectivity, LINKING?
Final Presentation of Data, Reports etc?

I'm trying to understand the difference of using both? I am a technical USER of CR.

Thanks

"A man is only as happy,... as he makes up his mind to be...

 

[rosemaryl]

The benefits to using Crystal over just plain SQL are profound.

Crystal is a visual design tool that allows you to select the tables (views, sp, whatever is generating the recordset) and then to drag and drop those fields onto the reporting canvass.

You do not need to SQL syntax to write reports using Crystal however to do any of the things mentioned in your last post you would need to be well versed in writing SQL and the presentation would have to be coded in some application or you would just be sitting there looking at SQL Anlayzer in MS SQL Server or DBA Studio or SQL+ in Oracle.

I think perhaps you might have heard a reference to SQL 2000 Reporting Services. It has a set of requirements and you can take a skills assesment test here to see if you are ready to use:

http://assessment.learning.microsoft.com/test/Start_Test.asp

With general information on SQL 2000 Reporting Services here:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/reporting/default.asp

regards,

ro

Rosemary Lieberman
rosemary-at-microflo.com,

http://www.microflo.com

Microflo provides expert consulting on MagicTSD and Crystal Reports.

You will get answers more quickly if you read this before posting: faq149-3762

 

[OrionStar]

What post are you speaking about? Linking tables in Crystal is fairly easy, presentation is easy.

Which post are you speaking about when you say I'd need to be well versed in SQL?

"A man is only as happy,... as he makes up his mind to be...

 

[rosemaryl]

Dear CMBcleaning,

Ummm the one here?

I am confused. I read your post where you aksed:

Can someone with extensive knowledge in both SQL and Crystal tell me the benefits of Crystal OVER SQL?

Perhaps my sentence structure was off:

to do any of the things mentioned in your last post you would need to be well versed in writing SQL and the presentation would have to be coded in some application or you would just be sitting there looking at SQL Anlayzer in MS SQL Server or DBA Studio or SQL+ in Oracle.

Should be:

to do any of the things mentioned in your last post with SQL you would need to be well versed in writing SQL and the presentation would have to be coded in some application or you would just be sitting there looking at SQL Anlayzer in MS SQL Server or DBA Studio or SQL+ in Oracle.

Does that perhaps make more sense?

Regards,

ro

Rosemary Lieberman
rosemary-at-microflo.com,

http://www.microflo.com

Microflo provides expert consulting on MagicTSD and Crystal Reports.

You will get answers more quickly if you read this before posting: faq149-3762

 

[OrionStar]

I see ok... then you are PRO CR.... yes I understand now... I'm very PRO CR..and we have a HEAVY big SQL dept here... I'm trying to show how beneficial CR is as compared to such

THANKS>..
M

"A man is only as happy,... as he makes up his mind to be...

 

[chelseatech]

At a Microsoft Developer Day last week, the MS guy was showing off all the cool stuff in Visual Studio 2005 and briefly showed the next version of Reporting Services.

Doesn't look like they have added much new stuff there, and it's still the complex .NET user interface to design reports.

Then he said RS was a "mid level reporting solution" and that the specialist tools (not naming CR but implying) were still superior.

Even MS use CR for their reporting within their own applications like CRM and other accounting business solutions.

Editor and Publisher of Crystal Clear

http://www.chelseatech.co.nz/pubs.htm

 

[OrionStar]

Very interesting, Chelsea.. I did not start with SQL, I basically purchased CR7 back when it came out...and I'm a self taught, trial and error, type of person. I learned it just by hands on.

I'm finding that MOST "programmers" are somewhat skeptical of CR and don' want to give it much praise. Actually, one programmer here went so far as to put it down and try to raise doubts about the possibility of CR having the ability to WRITE to the DATABASE and thus cause data corruption. I knew that this was not the case. I researched with our database providers...and they said that the NEWER versions of CR9 and newer DO have the ability to READ/WRITE to the data tables, but in order to be able to do this, it would require some advanced SQL COMMANDS. I don't USE SQL....and furthermore... our database provider...already was made aware of the potential for data corruption YEARS AGO..and made their databases READ ONLY.

My point is, programmers here using SQL are leary of me and my CR9, partly because I can do much better data queries and reports..... than they can...at a fraction of the cost.

I think CR is a very very good reporting tool.

Thanks for all your input...
Mike

"A man is only as happy,... as he makes up his mind to be...

 

[Madawc]

In Crystal, you can have a very presentable report in an hour or two, complete with nice-looking graphs. That's assuming that the data access is not too complex. I'm talking about something that can be shown to senior managers with limited IT knowledge: a report for my own use can be even faster.

When the data access is complex, you can pull it together in SQL and then use Crystal to display it.

I've never tried using SQL for anything more than simple data collection. It does have commands, but they are distinctly harder to use.

Madawc Williams (East Anglia, UK)

 

[OrionStar]

Thanks for your input, but why is data "collection" easier in SQL, than in Crystal? Does it have to do with the linking? Linking is one area I'm finding harder, but I think it more so involved my limited knowledge of the tables themselves. Here I have to learn what type of data is in each of our 330 tables and then, try to find a data element to link on.

Is this the reason that it's easier for you to "collect" data using SQL and the report on it in Crystal?

Thanks.


"A man is only as happy,... as he makes up his mind to be...

 

[Madawc]

In SQL, you can collect some data in a temporary table, and then improve it with data from another table, and repeat this many times. In Crystal there is a single collection for the main report, and another for a subreport if you use it.

I've also found that the Crystal Database Expert tends to fail when the links get complex. That was Crystal 8.5, but I think there are still limits.

Madawc Williams (East Anglia, UK)

 

[OrionStar]

When you say "improve it"...what do you mean. Why not just pull the data the way you need it from the start. Is linking a problem with SQL? In other words... is it easier to link in a the separate table that you are creating, than to just link and pull correctly from the 2 main tables?

Thanks
Mike

"A man is only as happy,... as he makes up his mind to be...

 

[fredp1]

Hi Mike,

CR can report off a number of tables/views. It does this by generating the SQL needed as designed by the developer. It knows this by the fields that you have used on the report, the linking of the tables , the selection criteria etc.
It is generally pretty easy to design a report.
However, for a number of users, they are not aware of the SQL being generated. Sometimes, you may be creating a report that is generating inefficient SQL, hence putting a load on the server. Because CR shields you from the SQL creation process, its very easy have 'slow' SQL code generated by CR (if you develop the report that way).
(You also have the ability in CR to see the SQL it generated)
This is why some programmers like to write there own SQL, because they have a better idea of the database structure and generally can write efficient SQL. (its also just as easy to write inefficient code too!)

Some CR developers use CR for the presentation/delivery side of the report and may use views/stored procedures that are 'hand written' that live in the database.
There are many reasons why you would use CR to generate the SQL or use views/sp's in the db.

Some developers have only read access to tables... so CR is used to create the SQL. Some sites do not have a 'proper' relational db, like DB2, Oracle and SQL Server, but have access to c-isam/flat files via some sort of gateway software using ODBC which means that CR is the only method available to them to create the SQL.
Other sites have dba's that work with the developers to ensure that efficeinet code is stored in the db, either as a view or a sp, which can improve performance, make maintenace of code simpler etc.

The bottom line is the SQL is a data manipulation language. SQL is not a presentation tool.
CR is both. It is especially good at presentation. However there are times that it is more appropriate to use the db to create a query/view/sp.

Given the right level of knowledge, CR works really well and can be very efficient when you look at the bigger picture.

Hopefully your programmers can have a open mind and look at a tools like CR to improve the information for your users.

Cheers

Cheers
Fred

 

[OrionStar]

Thank you for this information. Just as a followup, I realize that SQL is a language, but when I say this, I'm refering to Microsoft's SQL Server 2000 product of which most here in our company use. I'm assuming they must know/understand the SQL commands/expressions more than what a CR user would need to know.

I'm finding it very, very easy for me to pull data in the format that upper management is needing and IN LESS TIME that my counterparts. This is what I think is causing all the flack.

Thanks again..for the input....it has been very helpful..

M

"A man is only as happy,... as he makes up his mind to be...