CCNA Newb

[WFComm]

I have read alot of the posts for setting up a lab and such. While surfing ebay looking for routers I found a package deal. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on just buying package outright. Im sure I could save alittle piecing it myself but wouldnt be easier to just buy package?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-CCNA-CCNP...6|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1307|301:1|293:1|294:50

Also is there a way to get more hands on experience then just going through the class? I really like what Im learning and I find this stuff very interesting. Is there anything more I can do to learn cisco? I would even work some where for free in spare time for the experience. Any ideas?

(by the way Im in second semester of cisco net academy)

Thanks guys!

 

[CiscoGuy33]

WFComm,

Welcome to the Cisco Cert area at Tek-Tips

First on the lab I would suggest that you read this 9 part series at Network World on setting up a home lab for CCNA by Wendell Odom, CCIE and Cisco author -

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/24916

The series and follow-up questions and comments will answer and help you more then you will ever know - READ IT BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING!!!!

As for your link, another person here bought that same exact lab except he upgraded the switches to 2950's and one of the 2610's to a Fast Ethernet 2620. It is ok, but as you said you could piece it together cheaper, and sometimes in putting it together you learn a lot!!!!! For CCNA with the upgrade to a 2950 switch (you should have 3 switches) and at least 1 Fast Ethernet router as well as one that will do 12.4 IOS, it is ok!

The question I have is are you going past CCNA, if so, then the 2610's, 2500's and the 2924/2912 switches are going to have very limited use. If you are going on for CCNA Security or CCNP etc then you would be better to get 2950 switches and make sure at least 1 if not all have the EI (Enhanced Image).

As for routers, I would be looking at 26xxXM routers as the very least router in my lab - YOU NEED ROUTERS THAT WILL RUN 12.4 IOS , a 2610XM has a Fast Ethernet interface, is faster, holds more DRAM and FLASH and will run the 12.4 IOS that you will see on the CCNA and beyound

The 3640 routers can be a nice deal but you have to add the cost of all the interfaces since they do not have any Ethernet or Fast Ethernet interfaces built in. READ THE BLOG ABOVE AND THEN ASK MORE QUESTIONS!!!!

Glad you are taking Cisco Network Academy classes, you said -

"Also is there a way to get more hands on experience then just going through the class? I really like what Im learning and I find this stuff very interesting. Is there anything more I can do to learn cisco?"

I have taught in a Cisco Network Academy since 1999, and the first thing I would say is to DO ALL THE LABS/QUESTIONS/EXTRA STUFF ETC. in the Academy already. If you are not using the lab book, you should be able to download it and DO ALL THE LABS, many classes skip over things - you - DO IT ALL!!!

I would also get the Sybex CCNA Study Guide by Todd Lammel 6th edition - $29 from Amazon and use it ALSO, good contrast of the Cisco Academy stuff -

http://www.amazon.com/CCNA-Certified-Network-Associate-640-802/dp/0470110082/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

If you want to see my labs, I have pictures here -

http://picasaweb.google.com/ciscoguy33

Hope this helps!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[CiscoGuy33]

WFComm,

You asked -

"Also is there a way to get more hands on experience then just going through the class? I really like what Im learning and I find this stuff very interesting. Is there anything more I can do to learn cisco?"

YES, LABS, LABS and MORE LABS !!!!!! I have posted this link here before, this FREE LAB book is older from 2007, uses 2500 routers (but you could sub 2600's or 3600's easily) and it was for the prior CCNA exam, but labs are labs, just skip the IPX stuff -

Here is a free pdf download for a GREAT CCNA lab book -

There are several hundred pages of labs (like 750 pages) designed for 1, 2 and 3 router setups for the CCNA exam.

http://www.lulu.com/content/e-book/ccna-version-5-draft/815026

Publisher: Matt Bashamm
Copyright: © 2007
Language: English
Country: United States
Edition: Fifth Edition

Matt was my "train the trainer" instructor in the Cisco Network Academy System.

I hope this helps!! It is a great book and the price is right(FREE)!!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[WFComm]

Thanks for the help ciscoguy! I checked the link out with the 9 parts on labs. I dont think Im going to get the package deal. I will definitely piece it out. I really want to go for ccnp down the road so I will get some 2610s. Probably have to do it one at a time but I just started second semester so I have time I think. Like I said I really like this. Very cool stuff. I have been doing the telecom side for awhile now and the voip and networking are kicking my butt. This has allready helped alot.

I do have that book by Todd Lammel. Some of the ways he describes stuff seems different then what they teach us in the class. For example how he teaches you to do subnetting. It kept messing me up in class when the teacher would show us a different way. I got it though. The flash cards are cool too.

Anyways thanks for your help!

 

[CiscoGuy33]

WFComm,

You said -

"I do have that book by Todd Lammel. Some of the ways he describes stuff seems different then what they teach us in the class. For example how he teaches you to do subnetting. It kept messing me up in class when the teacher would show us a different way. I got it though. The flash cards are cool too."

I like the contrast with Todd's book, when you don't understand the way it is explained by Cisco/Cisco Press - it is nice to see it explained a little differently!!!

I think his Chapter 3 on Subnetting is one of the best out there - I have had many of my own students confused by how Cisco explained subnetting and then "got it" when they read the Sybex chapter - the bottom line is you need to understand it like the back of your hand for the exam - so whatever way works for YOU!!

"I will definitely piece it out. I really want to go for ccnp down the road so I will get some 2610s."

You are looking for 26xxXM's - 2610XM/2611XM, 2620XM/2621XM or 2650XM/2651XM, this would be the least I would want for my routers. Take some time and read the post by Wendell Odom and learn about 26xxXM's, 3600's and even 3725's and with the Cisco 890's coming out in May you will see many of the 1800's at a good price point on Ebay.

NOW, that said, the 2610/2611/2612's can be VERY cheap and are GREAT for a Frame Relay switch with a Network Module NM-4 A/S or NM-8 A/S. They also make GREAT access servers/ reverse telnet servers with the right Network Module (modules not cheap) or just as extra routers in the mix.

Just understand the limitations of the different routers as far as modules they will hold and amount of DRAM/FLASH they will take. You see a router - "GOOGLE IT" and learn all you can about it and see what others are saying about it.

Hope this helps!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[silverhairb]

WFComm,

There are some of us that use 3640 routers in "the lab." They are inexpensive and have lots of inexpensive expansion options. They are also capable of handling high-throughput. That helps them maintain a reasonable value in today's world of increasing bandwidth.

Its nice to have a 2621XM, but they are a little pricey.

As an alternative (and my personal preference), a 3660 with 2FastEthernet ports is a pretty good deal. Its also about twice as fast as a 3660. It has the performance to handle the new 60mbs internet connections so it may increase in value as that kind of connectivity becomes more widely available.


[the other] Bill

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Bill,

You are right on the 3600's

I would be careful of the 3620's unless bought from a dealer with a warranty. 3640's are the sweet spot but add another $100 for a Fast Ethernet network module.

I know you like your 3662 and they are nice in that they have room for lots of network modules, they have 2 Fast Ethernet ports built in and they have the horse power to handle most connections for the next few years. Only con, they are large.

WFComm,

You can see it can be lots of fun looking for lab routers and you learn A LOT about Cisco products in doing so!! You will find what YOU like and you will learn to read between the lines. YOU DO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL BUYING ON EBAY - IF IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE - RUN AWAY!!!! Understand what you are buying AND what it will cost YOU to increase the FLASH and DRAM - sometimes it is better to pay a little more for one that has the DRAM, FLASH and IOS you want in place.

Also look for those hidden deals where people include study material, CBT's etc. with the lab router they are done with. And ask the seller questions - if they are good sellers they will get back to you with the right answer!

Here is a dealer in Atlanta that several of us have bought from - his stuff comes with a 90 day warranty and his prices are right in line with Buy-it-Now prices on Ebay, sometimes it is nice to get what you want, when you want it and not be surpized by someone's junk -

http://www.cablesandkits.com/

You also will want to add Anthony Panda to your list of places for Cisco memory and cables, his other stuff is high!! -

http://www.anthonypanda.com/

Have fun and don't rush - be picky and you will have a nice lab!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[WFComm]

Thanks for your help guys! So after reading the 9 links on home lab this is the setup I think I want to go with.

* 1 2501 router ($25)
* 1 2520 router ($125)
* 1 3640, WIC-2T, NM-1FE2W ($400)
* 1 back-back serial (DB-60/DB-60) cable ($10)
* 2 back-back serial (DB-60/Smart serial) cables ($20)
* 1 console cable (free with router probably)
* 3 AC power cables (free with router probably)
* 1 Ethernet transceiver (for 2501) ($20)
* 3 Ethernet cables (crossovers, if using as shown in the following figure) ($30)

I will switch out the 2501 for a 2610 nonxm and the 2520 for 2610xm. If I can swing it I will make them both xm. Does this sound like a good setup? I noticed that the lab setup pages were written little more then a year ago. So not sure if much has changed. All in all this seems like a pretty do-able setup and its not terribly expensive. Also I just found a killer deal on a 3640 with the cards in it. Just crossing my fingers I can win it!

Let me know what you think!

 

[WFComm]

Found this too! Im not 100% sure if this is what I would need or not.

Cisco 3640 Network Router 2E-2W Serial 4T A/S 4E Wic 1T

The big question I have here is does this support fast ethernet?

 

[CiscoGuy33]

WFComm,

Network module - NM-1FE2W and NM-2FE2W, these have 1 or 2 Fast Ethernet interfaces and 2 WIC slots -

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps274/products_tech_note09186a00800b1155.shtml

Network module - NM-1E2W and NM-2E2W these have 1 or 2 Ethernet interfaces and 2 WIC slots -

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps259/products_tech_note09186a00800ad3cc.shtml

Network Module - NM-4A/S -

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps274/products_tech_note09186a00800a93f1.shtml

You said -

"Found this too! Im not 100% sure if this is what I would need or not."

If the price is right and the deal and seller looks good, it is not Fast Ethernet but it looks to have a NM-4A/S!

What you need to understand is that if you use the old 2500's - they have the serial ports built in which is a plus for them, the 2520/2521/2522/2523 - these have 4 or 10 serial interfaces, so they make GREAT Frame Relay switches.

The 26xx's, 26xxXM's and 36xx's DO NOT have built in serial interfaces - so you need WIC's - WIC-1T's or WIC-2T's or Network Modules such as the NM-4A/S or NM-8A/S.

So you need to determine what you will get and then what else you will need. Like the 3640 you listed - it has the 4 serial ports or these could be used in a 2610, it has 2 Ethernet and 2 WIC slots so you could get a WIC-1T and connect it to the router that has the NM-4A/S. If the deal is good - you can ALWAYS buy a NM-1FE2W or NM-2FE2W later for Fast Ethernet!!!

Read the links above, GOOGLE "Cisco 2520", "Cisco 2610" and "Cisco 3640" etc and learn more about these routers!!

Hope this helps!


E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[silverhairb]

WFComm,

It I were doing it all over again, I'd still go with the 3640s and 3660s. You can sometimes find a 3640 with plenty of modules for the less than the 2520 you show. I would also take a serious look at whether you want to use a 2501 or whether something else would do the just just as well (hint: 3640). I'm probably going to get jumped for my negative comment on the 2500s.

A 3640 with the 2E2W, 4T, 4E and WIC 1T would work well. The 4E module is not fast ethernet. A NM-1FE would work. Just make sure its a TX and not an FX module. FX is for fibre optic and TX is for RJ-45 ethernet cable. IMO, for lab, you don't really need FE. The expansion module that is the real deal is a 1FE1R2W. It has the options of a 1E2W at a lower price. Its also a good idea to use 10mbs ethernet since its another type of interface to define and manage. I had to think about the options when I defined regular ethernet.

CiscoGuy33 is correct. A 3660 MF2 (3662) is a larger unit, but with two built-in FastEthernet ports, it overcomes the need to look for expansion modules. It has a smaller footprint than a 3640, but does weigh in a "little" more and is a "little" taller. Sorta like the Shaq of lab routers. *BUT* it has twice the memory expansion available as the 3640, uses less expensive SDRAM modules (same as older PCs), and twice the flash capacity of the 3640. That's important in holding some of the newer versions of IOS with expanded feature sets. (A couple of the later IOS versions with expanded feature sets will work in 3640s, but need a couple of extra steps in the loading process.)

There are a couple of eBay sellers to look out for. My latest very bad experience is with one from Charlottesville, VA. He has a couple of items, inc. a 3640, on the block now.

A couple that seem to have some potential....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-3640-Rout...4|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-3600-3640...4|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

This one does not!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-3640-with...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

It looks like he might be from Charlottesville, VA.

One last item.... Rather then getting ethernet crossover cables, I used several little home network switches with autosensing ports to interconnect the routers. They are cheap and can be reused / sold. Not much demand for a crossover ethernet cable.

[the other] Bill

 

[maczen]

WFComm,
The lab you suggested looks pretty good. I would personally recommend that you nab yourself three 3640's or a pair of 3640's and a 3662 like Bill has.

Fast Ethernet Options for the 3640 are numerous.. You have the NM-1FW2w and the NM-2FE2W that Gene mentioned as well as the NM-1FE1R2w! You can sometimes find that one cheaper as many people look over it!

The 3640/3660 routers will run an IOS that will support your associate as well as a large portion of your professional studies for a long time to come! You can invest in an 890 series or 18xx/28xx series router later on down the line but that is a more significant investment!

If I were to recommend a lab for you (taking future proofing into consideration) right now then I would suggest the following!

1x 3662 (Has Fast Ethernet x2)
2x 3640
1x NM-4T/NM-8T (Frame-Relay)
2x NM-2E2W (Cheap way to add WIC-1T's to two of the routers)
2x WIC-1T

OR

3x 3640
1x NM-4T/NM-8T
2x NM-2E2W
2x WIC-1T
1x NM-1FE2W/NM-2FE2W/NM-1FE1R2W

Additionally you will want an "access server" such as a 2509/2511/2509RJ/2511RJ.. There are other options such as an additional 2600/3600 series with either an NM-16A or NM-32A!!! The advantage to this is that the 25xx routers are getting old and if one goes out you lose the whole access server where you do not if either the aforementioned card or 26/36xx router dies! Or there are other brand access servers that allow reverse telnet! The point is that you WILL WANT and access server as you will quickly tire of plugging/unplugging into your equipment!

These routers also support HSSI (High Speed Serial) and they will let you play around with ISDN BRI/PRI, ATM and all kinds of other stuff if you feel like it later on down the road! Probably has the largest selection of NM's/WIC's available in a lower priced router! Best damned lab routers currently available for the money! LoL

You will find these routers used in CCNP/SP/VP labs and even compensate the

http://www.internetworkexpert.com/

online labs (pay a small fee.. around $3 per hour and you have access to a mammoth lab with ASA's et. al.) A really good option when you reach the CCIE level and a lab would cost a fortune!!!

Finally, you will want some switches as well.. Try the 2950 series.. Preferably the EI models (Just Google it!) If you can get your hands on a 3550 or two or even a 3560 then all the better but I would nab three 2950's for CCNA R&S!

So add:
3x 2950 (EI models)
to your arsenal!!!

Then the final 'Finally' is to supplement your lab with GNS3! It is a great emulator that will definitely help you along the way! Check out my GNS3 Start Here link:

https://cisco.hosted.jivesoftware.com/docs/DOC-4462

I hope this helps!!!





B Haines
CCNA Security, CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[WFComm]

Thanks for the replies guys! I actually was just looking at a 3660. Yes its big but it looks like it would definatly be a good buy. I found one with maxed memory for $120. Even though I have to buy a fast ethernet it still comes in under a 3662. I just bid on some 3640s but missed them. How does two 2621xm routers look for a add on to the 3662? Follow it up with a 25xx for relay. Haha I hope Im understanding all of this right!!

Can only imagine what your setup would cost there maczen! A friend just turned me on to gns3 today actually!

Thanks again guys!

 

[silverhairb]

As a reference, I got my 3662 for $140 inc. shipping. Had to max out the memory - bought 32 meg flash, found 128 meg SDRAM in a drawer.

Just keep your eyes open. A month or so ago, I saw a 3662 go for about $100 inc shipping. IIRC, it had plenty of memory. Probably won't see that happen very often, but its worth watching for.

[the other] Bill

 

[WFComm]

Quick question. Is the second power supply on the 36xx needed?

 

[WFComm]

nevermind answered my own question. Man there is sooo much to read on this stuff!!

 

[silverhairb]

The 3660 will operate on one power supply, but error messages will appear if the second is still installed and not operating (turned-off).

Its a steep learning curve initially, but the light will come on and it all makes sense pretty quickly.

[the other] Bill

 

[CiscoGuy33]

WFComm,

As Bill said it is hard at first because you have to look up EVERYTHING - but soon it will start to fall into place.

Just "Google" and read EVERYTHING!!! Always start with the Cisco link and then then move to others!

It seems overwelming for everyone when they first start, but soon it will be second nature

And ask all the questions you want!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[CiscoGuy33]

WFComm,

Just wanted to follow up on Billy's comments above, Billy has a great lab and always has great advice -

"Additionally you will want an "access server" such as a 2509/2511/2509RJ/2511RJ.. There are other options such as an additional 2600/3600 series with either an NM-16A or NM-32A!!! The advantage to this is that the 25xx routers are getting old and if one goes out you lose the whole access server where you do not if either the aforementioned card or 26/36xx router dies! Or there are other brand access servers that allow reverse telnet! The point is that you WILL WANT and access server as you will quickly tire of plugging/unplugging into your equipment!"

I just wanted to point out to you and anyone reading this that "Access Servers" are not requirred but they sure are nice to have as Billy points out!

Same thing for racks, I like all my equipment on racks so that it is secure, has proper spacing for air flow and I like my lab racks on wheels to make it easy to move from place to place.

Do you have to have racks? - No, it just makes things neater in my opinion. Just as I like color coded Etherent cables and lables on the routers and cables as well as descriptions in the IOS!!!

And DO MAKE sure you have proper spacing for airflow - I saw several routers at an Academy that I visited that had been damaged because they just stacked the 2600's (fans on the bottom) 3 and 4 in a stack on a table and had them all running :-(

Just some thoughts as we discuss labs!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[lerdalt]

Don't forget the color coded electrical tape too. Finding that is very nice for marking power cords.

Also, here is a great site someone at work gave me. Some really great prices on stuff, but shipping is a little on the steep side.

http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp