Avaya IP vs. Cisco IP starting the reference process from both vendors. Any suggestions on what type of questions I should be asking the reference contacts they sent me? We are now an avaya shop and our data team is really pushing for us to go with cisco ( 15,000 users )
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Avaya IP vs. Cisco IP 2
- Thread starter MplsSpice
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GSmitherman
Programmer
You should look at ShoreTel. ShoreTel blows both Avaya and Cisco away. ShoreTel is 99.999% reliable.
I'm not affiliated with the link below in any way.... just a quick google search found it. 
FYI: The link is a PowerPoint presentation.
FYI: The link is a PowerPoint presentation.
jconrad0305
Programmer
alot of cisco shops will basiclly sell you a 2nd network to run your phones on as well as another network for your data. which means more switched to maintain and more problem areas. most avaya switches such as the IP Office and the Definity will do a true VoIP solution. depending on the money involved the Avaya Definity is definitly the way to go.
ACA & ACS IPO Implementation
ACA & ACS IPO Implementation
kwing112000
Vendor
You didnt really give much about what type of business but i agree Avaya is the way to go. My company is nation wide and all we service is Avaya. I peronally have worked on alot of different systems and i think the definity line is by far the best for a large company like this. Plus the call center is great.
Considering ongoing TCO as it relates to maintenance and upgrade costs, alot of companys are moving to Mitel including ours (7,000 users). We found it to be the easist system (by far) to administer. Also, there was no comparison in cost, the Mitel solution was significantly cheaper and the Mitel vendor offered free SW upgrades so long as we are under a maintenance contract.
Last but not least, Mitel just purchased Inter-Tel so we were not as worried going with a vendor that didn't quite have the name recognition that Cisco, Nortel, & Avaya. Then again, I assume this is why they were far less expensive.
Good Luck!
Last but not least, Mitel just purchased Inter-Tel so we were not as worried going with a vendor that didn't quite have the name recognition that Cisco, Nortel, & Avaya. Then again, I assume this is why they were far less expensive.
Good Luck!
phoneguy55
Programmer
A picture is worth a 1000 words. Please send to your data guys.
- Thread starter
- #9
I don't sell systems of this size so I realize my comments might be out of place but if I were shopping for a new system I wouldn't read any sales colateral put out by manufacturer. I would do the following:
First and foremost have an RFP written that specifically outlines the features and functionality that is needed. Then see which system can do it and have them show you! And don't have a consultant write it so he or she can write it so it makes his buddy's system the only option.
Read the user guides for the phones and voicemail of the systems in question.
Read the Adminisration documentation and understand the management process of the equipment.
Understand the upgrade and procedures and necessity of them.
And last and most important: Understand before you buy not what you will be gaining with the new system but what you will be LOSING!
No one likes to find out after they have bought a new system that it can't do what the old one did.
IP is IP and they all will work, its about the 3 F's baby: Features functionality and flexibility.
First and foremost have an RFP written that specifically outlines the features and functionality that is needed. Then see which system can do it and have them show you! And don't have a consultant write it so he or she can write it so it makes his buddy's system the only option.
Read the user guides for the phones and voicemail of the systems in question.
Read the Adminisration documentation and understand the management process of the equipment.
Understand the upgrade and procedures and necessity of them.
And last and most important: Understand before you buy not what you will be gaining with the new system but what you will be LOSING!
No one likes to find out after they have bought a new system that it can't do what the old one did.
IP is IP and they all will work, its about the 3 F's baby: Features functionality and flexibility.
jneiberger
Technical User
I would also recommend looking at ShoreTel and Mitel. That will give you a mix of rather different solutions to choose from. If you desire ease-of-use, ShoreTel is your best bet but I don't know how well they scale to that many users. I just don't know enough about them. It's possible that they'd scale just fine.
jneiberger
Technical User
That's why I said I wasn't sure if it scaled that high. I know they can scale fairly large, but 15,000 is a heck of a lot of end stations.
It's been a while since I looked at Mitel, too, and I have no idea how large they can scale. I can guarantee you that they don't have many customers that are that large, but they're worth checking into.
It's been a while since I looked at Mitel, too, and I have no idea how large they can scale. I can guarantee you that they don't have many customers that are that large, but they're worth checking into.
Avaya or Cisco is the way to go....
If you need a lot of features and managing it your self go avaya..
Are your network guys supporting everything i would recommend Cisco because the are cisco minded and you can,t beat it out of there,s head.
Just make sure to get an company thats knows what he,s doing more important then the product!!!
Greets Peter
If you need a lot of features and managing it your self go avaya..
Are your network guys supporting everything i would recommend Cisco because the are cisco minded and you can,t beat it out of there,s head.
Just make sure to get an company thats knows what he,s doing more important then the product!!!
Greets Peter
GSmitherman
Programmer
If the choices come down to Avaya or Cisco, I would go with Avaya.
PS...ShoreTel has deployed systems over 10,000.
PS...ShoreTel has deployed systems over 10,000.
Ask simple questions, such as is it open FULLY compatible with Open standards (SIP, H323 etc). Can you stick another vendors phones on the system. 15,000 units will make a heck of a difference between say a £50 Aastra and a £200 Cisco phone.
What warranties are on a) the system b) the phones.
How easiy is it to upgrade and at what cost.
Licenses? How much and how often.
Support, what will you get for your money.
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
What warranties are on a) the system b) the phones.
How easiy is it to upgrade and at what cost.
Licenses? How much and how often.
Support, what will you get for your money.
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
While both Avaya and Mitel have their places, depending on your technical staff, I would consider Asterisk. Feature for feature it is an amazing product. If you have a good technical staff and the resources, a cluster of Asterisk servers can provide a good reliable solution without some of the software license issues that other providers have.
jneiberger
Technical User
I would only recommend Asterisk if you have a VERY good technical staff who has plenty of time to work on it. If your staff is already busy doing other things, don't go with Asterisk. IMO, it's quite a bit more complicated than a proprietary solution and requires a lot more babysitting.
If you need a solution that works quickly and has support--at a cast, obviously--go with one of the big companies. Heck, you might even want to check out Vonexus. I'm not sure how big they scale, but I heard recently of a guy who used to work at Cisco for many years who left and went somewhere else. When they deployed VoIP, he decided against Cisco and the other big players and went with Vonexus.
If you need a solution that works quickly and has support--at a cast, obviously--go with one of the big companies. Heck, you might even want to check out Vonexus. I'm not sure how big they scale, but I heard recently of a guy who used to work at Cisco for many years who left and went somewhere else. When they deployed VoIP, he decided against Cisco and the other big players and went with Vonexus.
The data guys usually drink the Cisco kool aid pretty often so it is understandable that they are pushing for Cisco. That and the fact that Cisco is so much better at selling than Avaya gives Cisco some advantages.
At the last place I worked were were an Avaya shop with a converged Data / Voice group of about 12 people. The data guys bought a bunch of Cisco gear so Cisco gave us a Call Manager and a Unity VM to demo. The voice guys were all very knowldegable on the Definity the data guys very good on the Cisco interface. Coming from an Avaya background Call Manager seemed much harder to administer. Little tasks like switching buttons around on a phone were much more time consuming. Adding phones was much more time consuming in Call Manager. Getting little things like multiple coverage points required an additional module. Basic things like being able to be on the phone, get another call, then conference in both parties didn't work and required a new version of code. Now that was a couple years ago and I'm sure all of that is fixed but the Call Manager product isn't as mature as Avaya's Communication Manager product. We ended up going Avaya IP with multiple locations (with ESS or LSPs on site for local survivability) registering back to a centralized Avaya server. In our case even the data guys were happy with the Avaya stuff. The real question you may need to think about is who is going to support your system. Either way you will need support for the infrastructure. Who is doing the MAC and call center programming?
At the last place I worked were were an Avaya shop with a converged Data / Voice group of about 12 people. The data guys bought a bunch of Cisco gear so Cisco gave us a Call Manager and a Unity VM to demo. The voice guys were all very knowldegable on the Definity the data guys very good on the Cisco interface. Coming from an Avaya background Call Manager seemed much harder to administer. Little tasks like switching buttons around on a phone were much more time consuming. Adding phones was much more time consuming in Call Manager. Getting little things like multiple coverage points required an additional module. Basic things like being able to be on the phone, get another call, then conference in both parties didn't work and required a new version of code. Now that was a couple years ago and I'm sure all of that is fixed but the Call Manager product isn't as mature as Avaya's Communication Manager product. We ended up going Avaya IP with multiple locations (with ESS or LSPs on site for local survivability) registering back to a centralized Avaya server. In our case even the data guys were happy with the Avaya stuff. The real question you may need to think about is who is going to support your system. Either way you will need support for the infrastructure. Who is doing the MAC and call center programming?
phoneguy55
Programmer
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