Alternative Development Environment?

[leobaby]

After a good year on this one project, it is time to start thinking about version 2. Access has given me hell as far as performance, security and stability is concerned. While I am having no trouble finding suitable candidates for back end database(pervasive, sql server, fox); I am having great difficulty finding alternatives to access as a front end development environment.

Are there any alternative front end development environments that you guys might suggest? Are there any tools that might help me create a visual basic based front end(since much of the code for this is vb)?

Any links to products, comparisons, reviews or software archives would be Greatly Appreciated!

Thanks Much In Advance,
Matthew

 

[ToeShot]

There are many different frontends that can be used. You could use Delphi which uses the Pascal language it has a rich delvelopment enviorment with many wizards and tools. There is also VB6 that uses the Visual Basic language and would most familar to you since you built the first database in Access. There is Also C++ builder using the C++ language. These are just a few and basicall any development that supports ODBC and SQL may be used. if you are unfamilar with any of the development enviorments there is a link below that has tutorials, you may want to check this out just to get your feet wet. good luck on your choice.

HTH

http://www.programmingtutorials.com/main.asp

 

[hsitz]

I haven't done any huge projects in Access, but my understanding is that you can improve performance, security, and stability just by using Access with a different back end.

If you use a SQL Server backend aren't you able to use the SQL Server security features? And wouldn't that that solve most of the performance and stability problems? I'm curious what type of performance and stability problems you had that just switching to a SQL Server back end wouldn't solve.

In moving to SQL Server back end with Access, you'd probably want to make full use of ADO (and in Access 2000 the "Access Data Projects&quot in such a way as to take JET totally out of the picture. But that can be done.

Perhaps because I haven't worked on any huge projects, I feel like I'd be very hesitant to give up the rapid development of environment of Access to go to VB, Delphi, or anything else. They are supposed to be RAD environments, but the front end development package that Access provides is still much faster and easier, as far as I can tell.

The only problem I see with Access as a front end is that it's a pretty "heavy weight" client. But that's not a big concern in many installations.

Basically, I'm just curious about what performance, security, and stability problems you're likely to have with an Access front end/SQL Server back end combination (that you're not also going to have with a VB or Delphi front end). -- Herb

 

[MichaelRed]

As they say ...

Into every life (or development environment?) a little rain must fall.

I have been in the software business for a while (much longer than I would have liked). Each "development environment" has it's peril and promise. In my experience, the perils comes mainly " ... beween the seat and the keyboard ... ", however it is often clothed in other garments. Ms. A. DOES have performance issues, especially with the Jet engine, as it is NOT a Client server db. As to other problems, Ms. Access is IMHO actually one of the better products from MS, and perhaps the best example of improvement over it's life time. My biggest issue with Ms. A. is the fact that it is all to accessible to the hordes of 'wana-bes' who think they can just slap together some tables and forms and then have a full 'commercial' product. Mostly they do this with out 'reading the book' or doing the exercises. "They" then use hte whine and complain" option (in public) to blame the product for their own failings. IMHO, may of these "programmers" should have their keyboards revoked, or at least reduced to game PLAYERS (preferably with only a joy dtick).

I, personally, find Ms. A. one of the better development environments available, with most of the real issues resolved by using ANY ODBC Client-Server database (usually in conjucnction with the Jet engine (for those few things the "Industrial strength" dbs do not (yet) include - such as cross-tab queries.

MichaelRed
m.red@att.net

There is never time to do it right but there is always time to do it over

 

[leobaby]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

In my searches, I did come across one alternative development environment(in case anyone comes to this thread looking for such). It is a product called clarion by softvelocity. I know very little about it but I have found applications created with it and they look solid. Any other suggestions?

For the remainder of this project, I suppose I will concentrate my efforts on finding a better database server. I have not been able to find any comparative reviews, but I have been able to evaluate three products. They are pervasive sql, advantage database server and ms sql server. If anyone has any other suggestions or links to reviews, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Again,
Matthew

 

[MichaelRed]

I have never used Pervasive SQL Server. I have "used" (or abused) their BTrieve Product (more-or-less the equivalent of dbIII). I attempted to find some method of using a relational database based on "SQL" to interface to ONE BTrieve file, as "MY" app was a companion to another company's app. I found the Pervasive support quite confused and condusing. One rep told me that what I was asking could (easily?) be done while another said it couldn't be done at all and a thrid said it was possible, but no concurrent access would be possible. A fourth said that it was possible, but the Pervasive SQL would be required, and it would need to be started BEFORE the BTrieve run-time engine. After three months of conflicting 'opinions' -and NO specific direction, I abandoned the entire concept of concurrent access. The 'end product' used a set of Class modules to simply get the BTrieve table and 'import' it into a relational db for "off-line' use. I then needed to "maintain" the transaction history for the table so any changes made in my part could be entered into the BTRieve table at the end of hte session. Needless to say, it is quite a mess and ends up with far more error handling than actual 'processing' of hte data. I haven't talked to the Pervasive support group in over a year, so -perhaps- they have "improved" their capability/consensus of the products.

MichaelRed
m.red@att.net

There is never time to do it right but there is always time to do it over

 

[demoman]

I have used (in order) COBOL, R:Base, Dbase, Progress, Oracle, Access, SQL Server and VB6. I have to support apps written in Delphi/Pervasive SQL.

Personally, I like using the combination of Access, VB and SQL Server. They all have their place.

I like Access for workgroup applications and prototyping VB/SQL Server apps. All my WAN apps are VB/SQL Server. I use VB frontends whenever security is an issue, but I MAY use Access as the data backend. Occasionally, I even have a C++ friend create a DLL to add to the 'toolbox'.

I think there is a lot of flexibility in this development environment. It also has a very large user base, and that is very important. There is always risk when moving too far from the mainstream. Experience has taught me to avoid this.

 

[Guest_imported]

i hope i am not opening the doors of abuse on myself here,,,
but i do think a good [maybe one of the best] dev. env's is ms interdev. That introduces asp of course.
ASP seem to me as a good interface, togehter with a web browser off course[all operating system have them these days].
The learning curve is still steep, even with good knowledge of VB. We all know that back ends is not a problem, lots of choice here.
Also, with a browser there is some weight removed for remote access as well.
hope my opinion counts...

 

[hsitz]

I like web interfaces, too, whether they use ASP or some other scripting environment. (Zope is one that I'm partial to.)

The problem is that not only is the learning curve steep, but once you've climbed it development is still not as fast as it is with using Access as a front end (and the resulting web user interface doesn't have the flexibility and ease of use of Access forms, either). Granted, other front ends have advantages over Access, but I don't think any beat it for rapid development of a quality user interface. That's Access's biggest virtue, in my opinion. -- Herb

 

[Metrokel]

I am a book publisher that will be telemarketing (outbound/inbound) a History book series covering the past 2000 years of Christianity. The telemarketing will be outsourced starting in February and migrated to our own call centre within the first year. At that time we will be implementing a predictive dialer that needs to interface with a COM Server which will send a GUI pop-up to the opertor when someone answers the phone.
Mine is a new company that requires a robust RDBMS. We plan to purchase call lists from topical magazines and newspapers, load them into the DB and forsee over 5M records by the end of year 2. My question is this: What DBMS would be best for me if I start with 300,000 records. Would It be best to build the front and back end using Access on a Client/Server envronment using MSDE and migrating to SQL Server or should I just bite the bullet and go SQL Server now? Also my accountant would like to use ACCPAC. If anyone has expereince interfacing ACCESS 2002 or SQL Server to ACCPAC, please let me know how labourious the task is.

 

[MichaelRed]

I can't talk bout ACCPAC, but for the backend, my suggestion is to straight to the 800# gorillia (SQL Server?). There are some additional tools for the database management in the full package which are not included in the 'run time' environment. If you are going there anyway, the detour through the lightweight version will only slow down the development and increase the learning curve.

On the otherhand, your post is 'off topic' for this thread, and you will get more / better response by starting a new one.

MichaelRed
m.red@att.net

There is never time to do it right but there is always time to do it over

 

[Guest_imported]

as i have the complete ms visual studio, it includes foxpro, and it seems like another good environment?

any of guys used it, and what exactly do you use it for?