Smart questions
Smart answers
Smart people
Join Tek-Tips Forums
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS

Member Login




Remember Me
Forgot Password?
Join Us!

Come Join Us!

Are you a
Computer / IT professional?
Join Tek-Tips now!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

Join Tek-Tips
*Tek-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.
Jobs from Indeed

Link To This Forum!

Partner Button
Add Stickiness To Your Site By Linking To This Professionally Managed Technical Forum.
Just copy and paste the
code below into your site.

Norstar 8 x 24 Compact ICS Music on Hold PinoutHelpful Member!(5) 

serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
18 Feb 10 14:26

Hi Gens
on a Nortel Norstar 8 x 24 Compact ICS
in system programing Music on hold :y, background music:Y
 oi tired Pin25 on Amphenol port Connector and Pin25 on Line Connector, it did not work, i can hear the music with But set, Feature 86 gives dead air on the phone speaker
where did i go wrong
or i am on the wrong PINOUT

Thanks
Serge9
Helpful Member!  curlycord (Programmer)
18 Feb 10 14:31
Violet Green pair

Wiring diagrams :
http://www.tek-tips.com/faq.cfm?pid=799

 

=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
www.curlycord.com

 

Helpful Member!  misseditbythatmuch (TechnicalUser)
18 Feb 10 14:32
Helpful Member!(2)  exsmogger (Vendor)
18 Feb 10 14:33
Line cable, violet/green (23) pair.

Brian Cox
Brian Cox Telecom Services
http://www.linkedin.com/in/briancox1952


 

serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
19 Feb 10 16:00
i connected it to pair 23
Music is set to yes, back ground music is set to yes
stil no Music coming out for on hold or back ground
i can hear the music with a but set on bix 23
i tried bix 25, still noting
thanks
telebub (Vendor)
19 Feb 10 16:13
You put it on pair 23 of the trunk cable, not station cable, right?


 

curlycord (Programmer)
19 Feb 10 16:40
Right

=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
www.curlycord.com

 

misseditbythatmuch (TechnicalUser)
19 Feb 10 16:47
When checking for background music, you are going to a set, on hook, and doing Feature 86 to turn it on for that specific station, right?  (Feature #86 to turn it off).

You are also aware you will hear music on hold for external calls put on hold, not for station-to-station intercom calls put on hold, yes ?

You followed exmogger's advice, yes ?  (You are on violet/green from the Lines / Central Office amp)

What is your actual music source and how are you estimating the volume being output to the CICS ?
serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
19 Feb 10 23:59
yes, to all of the above
+
Feature 86 = music on
Feature # 86 = Music off

the only thing i did not check
is if pair 23 on line AMP is really well bixed Violet/green
or it is not
this i can only check next tuesday or wednsday

music source is a Radio
i use 1  telephone jack + 1 1/8 in lug converter cable
and i can hear the music befor connecting it to pair 23 on line AMP with alligator connector and a But set
radio volume is set to max, if i remove the 1/8 from the radio, the volume is extremly high

Thanks Gens
Serge9

              
misseditbythatmuch (TechnicalUser)
20 Feb 10 0:33
When checking the bix, also make sure the corresponding amphenol connector is squarely seated and not canted or lifting out of its mate on the ksu.

Be cautious with injecting super loud of an improvised music source as you can overload components on the ksu motherboard.  Generally keep within 1 Vrms at 3300 ohm.  Also, after F86, you may need to play with the local phone volume if it was last set very low.

I have seen suggestions, as a last attempt, to also flip the polarity on the MOH pair, just in case the radio is picking up a field ground of different potential than the ksu.

A bit of a long shot here, but ...

One last double check.... we are talking about a Compact ICS and not the older M8x24 console?  If the older one, that case it would be the violet/slate pair which is the last pair at the bottom of the stations block.  Violet slate is MOH ground and slate violet is MOH input.

Image of Compact ICS:  http://www.setesacr.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/norstar_compact_ics.bmp

Image of Older M8x24:  https://www.gfaelectronics.com/gfadata/images/NT5B20.jpg



After all of the other work you have done, if it gets to the end here, I would then suspect damage to the motherboard in the ksu.
serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
20 Feb 10 9:23
Thank You Misseditbythatmuch
yes, it is ICS Compact

i will check the bix block on tuesday or wednesday
and veryfy if the APM is sitting properly
or if i need to reverse polarity
very much appreciated
serge9
serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
22 Feb 10 15:09

tha is the one

ICS:  http://www.setesacr.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/norstar_compact_ics.bmp

AMPS is sitting properly


conected music source to Line cable, violet/green pair(23) . still no music
reversed Polarity, still no music
will try to replace the APMs

 
Helpful Member!  Alex51650 (TechnicalUser)
22 Feb 10 15:20
You can also check MOH on pins  by hooking up your tone generator turn it on grab cross wire hook it strip ends off one side place your tone generator on the stripped ends punch down the other ends on the appropriate pins do feature 86 the tone should come out on speakerphone if working properly.
serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
22 Feb 10 15:55
Thanks Alex51650
i did that did the same with the music souce, i can hear the music by connecting it to alligatore connector on the but set
but once it is punched on pin 23 line cable, i can not hear it with the same alligator connector or by doing feautre 86
when i do feature 86 i hear shoshsh
no music just silence
 
exsmogger (Vendor)
22 Feb 10 16:21
Sounds like the MOH pair is damaged and shorted.  Put an ohm meter across the MOH pair and check the resistance.  If it's at or near zero you'll need to have the CICS repaired or replaced.

Brian Cox
Brian Cox Telecom Services
http://www.linkedin.com/in/briancox1952


 

curlycord (Programmer)
22 Feb 10 20:32
Just for a test try a spare amphonal cable in case it has an issue.

 

=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
www.curlycord.com

 

exsmogger (Vendor)
22 Feb 10 21:27
I just had another thought.  Could be a split pair punched down on the block.

Brian Cox
Brian Cox Telecom Services
http://www.linkedin.com/in/briancox1952


 

serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
22 Feb 10 22:16

i also thoght that the pair 23 is split and wrongly punched but when i checked it, it was the violet/green pair?

testing pair 23 with Ohm meter (that is a great idea)
i will test it tomorrow before replacing the AMPs

i suppose i should do a shut down first or can i replace it while the system is running (stupid question i suppose!)

Thanks Gens, you are Great people

Serge9
curlycord (Programmer)
22 Feb 10 23:22
You can leave it running but no lines would be accessable during the test.

Just put some tone on 23rd pair, swap amps quickly and see if you get BGM, if not sounds like the port is toasted.

 

=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
www.curlycord.com

 

serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
22 Feb 10 23:52

Thank you Curlycord
will try it tomorrow
Thanks again smile
Serge9
serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
24 Feb 10 20:29

i tested Pair23 with Ohm meter
it showed 1.92 one time, and 1.85 another time
connected the music source again
feature 86 and music on hold were dead
i pulled out pair23 and connected the nusic souce directly to pair23, guess what
with feature 86 we can hear a very low volume but it is there
music on hold still dead (calling from a cell and asking the user to put the call on hold)

i will try replacing the 1/8 in lug converter cable
but why feature 86 gives very low volume music and music on hlod is dead

Thanks
Serge9
misseditbythatmuch (TechnicalUser)
24 Feb 10 20:41
It is progress.  Before you conclude that MOH is dead for outside callers, try a landline.  Your cell phone may not be sensitive enough to pickup the low volume music source.  A related topic came up before about MOH distortion on cell phones.

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1492962

Once you have the physical connection corrected, you can double check your programming for MOH, and then work with the volume of the source.  Please keep in mind the limits I posted earlier so you do not overload the KSU components.
curlycord (Programmer)
24 Feb 10 20:53
Make sure to press volume up when using F86

=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
www.curlycord.com

 

serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
24 Feb 10 21:49

thank you all
i did F86 and raised the set volume to max and the sound was very weak
 
Thanks
serge9
curlycord (Programmer)
24 Feb 10 21:55
Good indication the port is blown then, otherwise verify with another amp cable first.
 

=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
www.curlycord.com

 

exsmogger (Vendor)
25 Feb 10 1:38
Less than 2 ohms is basically a short.  Glad that suggestion helped you track the problem. I'd still try Curly's suggestion to sub another amp cable.  Small chance the short is in the cable or connector.

Brian Cox
Brian Cox Telecom Services
http://www.linkedin.com/in/briancox1952


 

demrispapa (TechnicalUser)
28 Feb 10 16:50
sometimes overlooked with MOH is the input. If you are using a stereo plug it will have a right and left channel. each has a n insulated wire and an uninsulated braid.This has to be wired mono. into the system.The 2 insulated wires are connected together for one side and the 2 braided wires are connected together for the other. if you just use the 2 insulated wires the volume goes to nothing.
serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
28 Feb 10 22:45
thank you demrispapa's for valuble detail you have supplied
(the plug i used is a mono plug and was used on another system (MICS))
i am trying to think of every possible cause, so since i have not open the plug to verify how it is made
i bought a new mono plug, wires and connecting box, will make my own plug and test it on wedensday
 
RoddyMaclean (Vendor)
1 Mar 10 6:14
Serge9, can you clarify two things for me?

1/  Can you hear the audio on the bix, after you punch down the wire from your radio?
2/  You said the ohnmeter reading was 1.92 and 1.85,..  Is that ohms, or kOhms?  

Something to try while you are working with the amphenol connector.  Listen to the audio on the bix while you are pulling off the amphenol connector from the CICS, if the audio goes loud with the amp removed from the CICS, the cable is not shorted, the CICS is loading down your source.  This may or may not be bad.
serge9 (TechnicalUser) (OP)
3 Mar 10 18:34
What a story
The music is on!
** i bought new Lug cables
made my own lug plug, and got one made by a friend, a tech who works on suffisticated printed circuit.
** got another AMPS
and went to see this system, verified the installed AMPs,
the cable was of the older system, it had one screw at the higher end to secure it in place, and this system does not have a hole to screw this screw in!, the screw was screwed in a bit too much = lifting the AMPS just a milimeter or 2, so it was not sitting properly, unscrewed the screw, pushed teh AMPs in, could not get a good volume
replaced the music source and lug cable and it started to sing
Thank you all for your support and generosity and good blesse you all

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Tek-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Tek-Tips and talk with other members!

Close Box

Join Tek-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical computer professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Tek-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close