×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS

Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you a
Computer / IT professional?
Join Tek-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Tek-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Using CAT 6 for phone wire

(OP)
Has anyone experienced phone issues when using CAT 6 cable for phone wire?  Does this cause a problem?  I'm having trouble researching this issue.  Know of any helpful links?

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

It shouldn't cause any problems, but for standard voice it is overkill. You can run voice on pretty much any twisted pair of wires.

jeff moss

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

like jeff said there is no advantage keep in mind that POTS service reachs your DEMARC on cable that is probably not evan  up to cat 3 standards.

 it is a interesting question though I rember when cat 5 cable first came out reading that it shouldnt be used for POTS service becouse it could cause cross talk and other problems  

 we use it all the time though never seen any problem in fact we dont evan carry cat 3 cable any more

 so to answer your question I dont think you will see any problems in using the cat 6 cable and of course its nice to have in the wall for future needs

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I've seen weird problems with Cat5/Cat5e over LONG distances causing major cross talk and static (touch tone tommy, tell everyone the story you told me) but that was about 800-1000 feet I think.

With cat6... I'm sure the same would exist, although cat6 with webbing might not have that problem.  I'm not sure.

Bottom line -- I used Category 3 wire for voice if I'm pulling plenty of extra data, to where I know that the voice cabling could never be required for data usage.  Category 3 wire is MUCH easier to terminate and work with.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I am doing some residential work now, and the customer bought the cable. When he went to ADI to buy cable, they told him there was no such thing as Cat3 cable, so they sold him quad wire. Go figure on that one.

jeff moss

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I use general cable Cat-3 and I'm pretty sold on HT's Cat5e.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I use General Cable Cat3 also, and usually General Cable or CommScope Cat5e.

jeff moss

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I am doing some residential work now, and the customer bought the cable. When he went to ADI to buy cable, they told him there was no such thing as Cat3 cable, so they sold him quad wire. Go figure on that one.


I hope you dont plan to use the quad wire

  

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

he only has one phone line now, so I did put it in. I also installed 2 cat5e in each box and one RG6 coax.

jeff moss

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Hi Avaya Novice,

I would like to know more about this "CAT5/e story" with TTT. Can you enlighten us? What kind of phones were being used etc., because I have never had a crosstalk problem using "electronic" or digital phones - only analogue and that means 500/2500 series type phones or the analogue side from the CO or basically TIP/RING dialtone. This could or would be caused by split pairs, bad terminations, or resistance shorts.

Also those interested might check the cable manufacturers' websites for more info on specific cable and white papers that may provide some good insite into design and applications. You can even call them and talk to an engineer with specific questions. This would surely clear up any erroneous information about the proper use of cable types and the side effects thereof.

BTW, I like General Cable's CAT3 also. It's a good product!

....JIM....

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Jim,

As I recall... Tommy and I were discussing CO feeders... and it was a rural residence that had twisted pair dialtone drop cable from the pedestal, in conduit, to the SNI.  I want to say it was in the range of 1000 feet plus.  And it was long ago to where it was definetely an analog telephone.  I recall him saying that as soon as they put in NON twisted pair cable, it was fine.  I think it was two pair twisted, this was in the 80's if I recall.

I'll have to ask him about it tomorrow.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Like I mentioned earlier we dont evan carry cat 3 anymore we use 5e for everything

 we rarely run lines that will be strictly analog POTS usually just a fax or modem drop and well under 500' much less a 1000

 I have a quanity of cat4 8 pair that I picked up cheap and we often use it to extend demarcs but again usually 100- 300 ' naver seen any problem though

 as to the quad wire I can garantee you will have problems if you try to add a second line ..not worth the effort to install in my opion.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

The weird thing about this is... most of the outside plant work I have done with telephones has been with big big big cables, in the 600-1800 pair category, and a lot of them were VERY old, not quite lead sheath, but almost -- and the twist in those is about every 3-5 feet, not to mention that it's 26 guage conductor.  And I never really had any problems with crosstalk there either... most of my splices were either 710 if I had available space in a splice enclosure, or with smaller splice enclosures -- beans to keep the size down.  And we're talking 10-20 miles here...

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I did the install this week with the quad wire. So far, I have the jacks and blocks terminated and I'm waiting to go back and terminate the feed cables. When the job is done, I will post some pictures here. This week I'm also getting some Snap-N-Seal connectors to terminate the coax for this job, I have not used them yet, hopefully they will work well. (from what I read here, they work very nicely)

jeff moss

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Hey Avaya~
I think the senario that you are remembering was a little different. The rural customer could only get an MPOE at the edge of their property, and had to run their own cable to the house, about 700' or so. They put in their first line themselves, using the two Tips of the two pairs. When they added a 2nd line, they used the two Rings, and had terrible crosstalk. When we straightened it out properly, the crosstalk vanished. Not sure why using Cat5 or even Cat6 would cause any problems with a dial tone though. I agree that it's a whole lot easier to terminate Cat3 on blocks, if it's appropiate for the particular installation.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Hi Everyone,

As I read Avaya Novice' response, I was thinking some folks either don't know from lack of knowledge or forget that the circuit characteristics are very different for analog telephone service versus ethernet data transmission and the different anomalies that can and will affect both types of transmissions. In this case the twisting of pairs for analogue causes crosstalk to be cancelled, whether it's 3 feet or 1 inch in relation to the other pairs. The twist causes the signals to cancel one another. So for CAT5/6 or whatever it has NO effect on analogue voice and will not degrade service. That is why there are so few twists in outside plant cables. These cables have been designed with specific characteristics by the manufacturers for the circuits they carry whether it is T1, dialtone, ISDN, DDS, audio, or XDSL(ie ADSL, HDSL, SDSL).

I hope this makes sense. This is why understanding the basics is important in how to apply knowledge to a situation and learning from experience.

....JIM....

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I've lit up several T1 circuits on 26 guage OSP stuff from the 80's... and suprisingly it worked.

I agree, tommy told the story right -- i remembered it incorrectly.

I still have had problems with properly termianted cat5 twisted pair for dialtone, ill have to think back to what it was.

Oh well.  Stick with cat 3 for voice!

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Stick with cat 3 for voice!

I feel the customer is better served by having at least cat5e in the wall for future applicactions

 the cable cost diffrence is negligable

 
 as to the diffaculty of termination it is minimized by practice.

 I always strive to give the customer the biggest bang for the buck

 getting back to the original question I would pull the cat 6 for the phones

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

As I stated before, If it is a wiring job where there is conduit in the walls, and I'm already running cat5e or whatever for data, then I'm going to run cat3 for voice.  I think a lot of people would agree on that one.  It has nothing to do with cost, it's just better practice for me -- considering the ease of termination, smaller o.d., etc.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

One of the great advantages of Cat3 for voice is the ability to use different pairs for multiple phones/faxes/whatever without having to run additional cable. Not a factor on a new installation, where you would just have additional cable runs, but definatly one on a service call for a move/add/change. You just can't snag that brown pair for the credit card machine when it's all Cat5 on patch panels.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Regarding AC noise/induction:
I have had induction issues several years ago with certain types of Nortel analog phones used in a cabled office where all drops were cat5e fully terminated on 8 pin 568B jacks and run back to patch panel for cross-connection to the PBX. The problem was not the cable quality or installation, but because the phone had a 4 pin connector and used a 4 pin line cord some AC hum was induced into the second pair and for somehow was passed into the audio path. Once the line cord was switched to a single pair cord the problem vanished. (The cables were tested and certified for data usage.)Check for unused pairs and make sure they don't enter the phone itself. Some older digital or hybrid analog/digital phone systems had similar issues of not liking open pairs attached and not grounded.

Gerald

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

BTW, Quad wire sucks and whoever allows this to be sold in this day and age should be strung up. It's time has long past, please let it die! Someone else will come along after you and have to replace it if you don't!

Gerald

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire


You just can't snag that brown pair for the credit card machine when it's all Cat5 on patch panels.

good point but I dont terminate the cat5 voice cable to a cat5 patch panel I usually terminate to cat3 inserts in a blank panel or to a 66 block also I split the 4 pair into two two pair cat 3 jacks on the customer side.

  so there really isnt a need to snag the brown pair for a extra device as there is one extra jack at each location already

 I have had a few instances where that cable was needed for data and it simply a matter of replacing tha jack an cusomer side with cat5 and re-routing the cable on the equipment end to the data patch panel

  works for me and the customers appreciate having the spare cat 3 jacks for voice and aux equipment.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I've never had any problems using Cat 5 for voice. Have not even considered Cat 6. I prefer to use Cat 3 for voice cause it is usually a little cheaper and just to ID it as voice as opposed to data. But I have run plenty of Cat 5 for voice just because it was readily available.

Richard

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Hi, When I re-wired my house I used cat 5.  It was a great choice.  I decided later that I wanted a Merlin Legend phone system.  So if i did not use Cat 5 i would have to re-wire. I have done some homes where you put in standard 2 pair.  A week later they get a third line.   I always like to be safe. Run cat 5.  You never know what will come tomorow.     

Jake

Happy new year all.....

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Jake,

I've ran merlin legend phone systems of 4 pair CMX station wire.  Its category 5 rating has nothing to do with it, you just need 4 pair station wire, which of course cat3 4 pair certainly is.

Cat3 for voice.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

But If i ran normal 2 pair phone wire?   It could not be done.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

2-pair wire is no longer "normal". The bare minimum that you _should_ be able to purchase at the wholesaler is Cat-3 FOUR pair. That will support Merlin ATL sets, and any type of 1, 2, or 3 pair electronic key system telephones, and of course up to 4 dial tones if not using a key system. Anyone still selling 2 or 3 pair I/W should have their heads examined.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

But If i ran normal 2 pair phone wire

 I dont think there are many that would call 2 pair (also known as quad) phone wire normal.

  rhe standard has been 3 twisted and now 4 twisted pair cat3 for at least 15 years .

 any 2 pair install is substandard.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Quad is NOT 2 pair cable. Quad is 4 wires only, not 2 individually twisted pairs that then twist around each other.

Gerald

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

gerald

 quad cetanly is two pair cable pair one red green pair two black yellow,

 you are correct though it is not however 2pair twisted cable.

 i have seen plenty of quad wire run and while i'm sure it exists i have never seen 2 p[air twisted cable and I would imagine it to be a special order item and hard to get

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

I've seen it, shielded... for data circuits.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

after i made the post i recalled that I did run into once it was wht blue /wht orange and I skinned the jacket back looking for the wht green and it wasnt there

  but as I mentioned I doubt any distributor stocks it and it would be a special order item.

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

L-Com sells 2 pair Cat 3 and Cat 5e.

jeff moss

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

2 pair cat 5e ? ?

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Yes, they have 2 pair stranded Cat 5e and 2 pair shielded Cat 5e. Also 2 pair Cat 3 PVC and Plenum.

jeff moss

RE: Using CAT 6 for phone wire

Yes I have seen 2 pair CAT5 cable used by Rauland Borg for thier Nurse Call system.  The Responder Nurse call system has a 2 pair CAT5 cable that home runs to the main equipment cabinet from the patient rooms.

I WILL FISH FOR FOOD

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Tek-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Tek-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Tek-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Tek-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Close Box

Join Tek-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical computer professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Tek-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close