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Error 3197 but not corrupt

Error 3197 but not corrupt

Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
I am experiencing an intermittent error 3197 suggesting that two users are accessing the same record but I am the only user. I am aware that this can often be caused by a corrupt memo field but can see no evidence of such corruption within the database (how would it manifest itself?)

Are there any other circumstances when this error might occur and is it possible to generate this error by inadvertently trying to, for example, update a recordset while one of its records is open in another recordset within the same application?

Thanks in advance.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Have you tried the Compact and Repair option?  This may fix the problem.

How are you accessing the table?  Via a form or in the table view?

Is the table related?

Do you get this message when you edit a specific field or any specific record?

Let me know.

Regards,

Richard in Tulsa

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Thanks for responding Richard.

I have not done compact and repair but this is a customer's database and they compact and repair daily and continue to get the problem. Also, the database has been freshly converted from Access 97 and we don't get the problem in Access 97.

We are accessing via a form (in fact a sub-form on a form). We are also experiencing 'Not a valid Bookmark' problems (again not a problem in Access 97) with the same table but I'm not sure if this is relevant.

When I view the relationships, this table does not appear to be related to any others. In practice it is related to an Invoice table.

Hope that helps!
The error does not occur with a specific record - in fact we cannot consistently reproduce the problem, which is frustrating. It appears to trigger as focus moves from the subform to another control. There is only one 'quantity' column in the subform that can be modified so difficult to tell if a specific field is at the root of the problem.

Also, the error re-triggers and continues to do so after each Refresh Interval has elapsed.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Since it seems that your problem is related to one table, try this.

Select the table, then do a Copy/Paste, but only select the structure option.  Give the new table a different name.  This will create a new table with all the fields and settings from the old table.

Then create a new query based on the old table.  Add all the fields to the grid.  Run the query to see if all the data is there, it should be.

Then go to the design of the query and change it to an "Append" query and append it to the new table.  Run it and all the records from the old table will be copied into the new table.

Since the table is not related to any other table, you should be able to rename it.  Change the name of the old table to something like TABLENAME2 (add the 2), then Rename the new table to the same name as the old table.

See what this does.  Since the error occurs intermittent, this will be a killer to find and fix.

Browsing around the Fourm  I found this.

http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/corruptmdbs.htm

Gave it a quick look and it seems to cover a ton of errors.

Regards,

Richard in Tulsa


RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
I tried this thanks and I see where you are coming from but I don't think it has helped - still getting bookmark problem and, although the 3197 error has not yet resurfaced, its intermittent nature suggests it could still be waiting to happen again.

I don't suppose you know of any utility that would perform this operation (i.e. dump & reload) all tables in the database - in case you are on the right track but we have problems with more than one table?

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Let's go one step further.  You mentioned this was a converted db from 97 into 2000 and didn't have the problems in 97.

So maybe someplace in the conversion things went bump in the night.

So try creating a FRESH db in 2000.  Then try File Get External Data Import and import the tables from the "bad" db and see what happens.

Another way that would work and keep the "bad" tables out of the new 2000 db is to try File Get External Data Link.  This would keep the tables out side of the new db.  Then use a query and run "Make Table" queries to use the data in the linked tables into really fresh new tables in the new db.

Is the old 97 db still available?  May try the above using the 97 db.

Just some more thoughts.

Richard in Tulsa

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Thanks Richard. We may well try this on Monday but we have been wrestling with this for a few days now and, time to down tools is approaching here in UK. We have also decided to use up a valuable MSDN incident and Microsoft will (?) be calling us back on Monday.

I will update this thread with final resolution - as well as with results of your further suggestions.

Your efforts are appreciated.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

I'd be interested to hear what MS has to say.

Have a good weekend and hope it's a COOL one.

Richard in Tulsa, OK

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Actually I just tried your first 'Fresh' database suggestion. No joy I'm afraid, same problems. Of course one thing I'm uncertain about is whether, when we encounter one error, this creates the corruption that causes the others.

The 97 db is still available.

Have a good weekend also.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
10 days on and still waiting for response from Microsoft. They have not even acknowledged whether they have been able to emulate the problem. I wonder if MSDN subscription is really worth it!

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
It appears that, after over two weeks, the Microsoft explanation that I will have to accept is that this is down to timing issues where certain code that I understand to be running concurrently (e.g. DLOOKUP statements) is conflicting. The fact that it is happening under Access 2000 and not Access 97 could be down to the additional overhead of Jet 4.0 vs 3.5.

Microsoft's suggestion, believe it or not, is to rewrite the application (which is not our design and is certainly open to criticism) or revert to Access 97.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Hi

I have the same problem, so wondered if you have made any further progress on this.  I managed to miss this thread so started another, it was only towards the end when I was getting 'bookmark' errors I found yours. My thread, not as useful as this, is Thread181-788113

TIA

John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Hi John

Re progress - no, not really. We have found that the problem(s) disappear when the database size is reduced. In fact we are about to run a controlled purge on the client's database.

It seems that Access 2000 / Jet 4 simply cannot handle this combination of database size and application complexity. Shame they don't have this plastered across the sales literature.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Many Thanks for that feedback - is this also true about Access 2002/03 - as I believe they are still Jet 4?

Out of curiosity, what size is your database?

TIA

John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
My guess is that more recent versions of Access/Jet are probably, if anything, worse still. My interpretation of what we were told is as follows:

a) As new versions of MS products evolve, they become less forgiving than their predecessors and practices which may have 'escaped unheeded' in an older version may be rejected in a new version.

b) Substantial changes in the Jet database engine between Access 97 and Access 2000 can lead to performance issues in more substantial and complex applications. The degraded performance can in itself cause timing issues which causes the application to proceed with certain processes before others complete. The busier the network, the more likely this is to happen – this could explain why we could not emulate some of the problems experienced by our customer.

The database in question is about 80Mb but contains 80+ tables; 700+ queries; 200+ forms and 350+ reports. It also involves a front end with linked tables. We are expecting that the purge we are organising should halve the database size.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Long time no hear.  I'm glad you at least got going on the right track, but it's unfortunate the track looks broken.

Your answer really scares me as our company will be upgrading all our hardware and software very shortly.

The hardware is no problem, but the OS will be WinXP and the Office Suite will be Office 2003!

The bad part is I have probably a dozen programs currently running under the current version of Access 97. One is large and the others are small.  It's will be fun to see what happens when I have to convert them from 97 to 2003.

Your answer will sure help when I have to call "our" HELP DESK since they will be the support on this corporate installation.

I see fun and games coming down the road.

I better have double back-up of everything before I proceed.

Have a great week!

Regards,

Richard
Tulsa, OK USA

 

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Well it would be interesting to hear just how similar jjob's symptoms are and if, by purging (a copy of!) the database of a reasonable volume of records, whether the problem disappears. Otherwise, maybe ours is an isolated case?

I think a lot will depend upon the quality of the database design and application code. The one we were converting is, er, far from perfect.

It might be wise to flag the issue with your company NOW so at least you can say 'I told you so' when the thingy hits the rotary cooling device. Though no point in spreading panic - it is only a risk rather than an inevitability.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

In fact, tomorrow I'm heading down to our headquarters for some training on the new heardware/software and WILL bring up the question of Access conversions.

I'll let you know what they say. I really don't expect any real answers as they probably haven't run into any problems yet.

I wonder if Access 2003 has the same option to use a previous version as the default.  2002 can create db's in 2002 format and are backward compatable to 2002.

We'll see.

Take care,

Richard

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

My symptoms are identical, A master form with a sub form (sales rep details for a visit on the main form, list of objectives on the sub.) This form appeared fine  until it was required to be called from a complex form via a command button. (although I can't be sure that it was not already a problem, but got worse on moving)

The form 'saves' temporary stuff in to 'permanent' data. Initially I used the same sub form table for the temporary data and ran an update on the foreign keys using SQL execute, I then tried a DO LOOP in a recordset, then a DO LOOP with a temporary table inserting from that into the live, then the temp table with a SQL insert. Each change altered the problem slightly, moving from the 3197, 'Jet Stopped the operation', now to the 'Bookmark' problem.  I belive my symptoms are identical.  I have a front and backend database, and I have the new temp table in the front end, but still problems.   I'll check the database BE size tonight, but the front end is about 4 Meg - with very complex forms.  The back end has about 28,000 large customer records, plus various other tables AND it worked OK in Access 97.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
jjob Yes your problem does sound VERY similar. We got bookmark problems too. Very frustrating. It would be worth just trying to remove a chunk of those customer records (and perhaps records from other related tables - orders, receipts or whatever) to see if the problem is alleviated or removed.

Do you always get a problem or is it a bit unpredictable? We found unpredictable - it might happen every 6-7 attempts for example - particularly after we had cut the database size down by less significant percentages.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

When I do development work using a front-end/back-end, I always use a back-end with minimum records as it's easier to see what your results are and also I don't have to work with the customers REAL data if they don't want it out there.

So when working with a small back-end and all goes well, then when the customer links to their back-end and has problems, you can suspect there is a problem with their data or too much of it.

Richard

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Errors are unpredictable, but inevitable, if that makes sense.  Initially I couldn't get the errors at all on my system, because I kept calling the problem form from the "main menu", once I realised that the user was calling it from the tab in the company forms, it didn't take me too long to get the errors, but I had then asked for, and got, the users data, as I was convinced there was corruption - there wasn't.   To get the error I have to SAVE data, not just enter data then abort and exit the form.  Saving does 2 things, obviously invoks table writes, BUT because the new data needs to appear as a summary in the complex parent form (customer asked for an immediate refresh), a refresh of the complex parent form is executed by the child. I have a refresh sub as a method of the calling form class.

The bad news is that I now get the errors when calling the data entry form on it's own, but, as I said earlier maybe it's since having the user data, also possibly only if I've first run it via the complex form! I need to check that by starting up and adding via the main menu only.

I've been almost a week just trying to determine the circumstances.  I have found that it is always the sub form that is generating the errors, even though this is bound to a relatively small table - about 3000 small records (it's a link table), none are corrupt by the way.

 I will try reducing the backend database size, but I'm interested in trying a few other things first


a) introduce a time delay in the SAVE procedure and see if that allows Access to sort itself out.

b) replace any dlookups in the complex form with my own lookup functions, in fact try and replace any Access function wth my own.

What surprises me is that as this is such a standard and straightforward action, Microsoft appear to have nothing on their sites or knowledge bases - the two errors, 3197 and the Bookmark seem to be typical of the problem but I've found nothing.

My customer is going to love it when I tell them that their upgrading to XP and Office XP (Access 2002 I believe) is the probable cause of the problems!

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Just checked the BE size, 20 Meg. (front end is now 8 Meg - growing because of temp table resident in it.)

Another thought, re database design - I inherited this database, it was originally all Access Wizard stuff produced by a technical user. The core of the appliction is a form with about 8 tabs, many subforms etc and there is loads of data handling and links.  It looks good, but I think it produces a lot of processing, always did, and it's penchant for corruption was why I started to strip out anything clever that I could reproduce in VBA or SQL.

I came on board when the techical author found it hard to produce the report filter forms (actually being a developer I went straight for VBA, I could probably have used SQL and QBE to produce queries, but felt I had more control and time was short, with hindsight I think this was a good move!)

I've replaced all macros, split it into front and backends and to speed things up have replaced lots of access functions with my own, however, the database remains basically a 'bound forms' one. It also did use lots of the Access table fields were you would look at the field and get another table appearing. It did corrupt a lot during development, but as I removed the Access stuff and replaced it with VBA it became stabler.  I think there is much to be desired, but it has worked for about 18 moths with up to 5 simultaneous users (maybe more). No corruption of the database on site so far, what corruptions occured where normally at my end during development.

I've used Access back ends on web sites and it seems robust enough, the problem seems to me to be in the user interface part. Certainly the back end here has so far stood up well

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
>My customer is going to love it when I tell them that their upgrading to XP and Office XP (Access 2002 I believe) is the probable cause of the problems!

Boy do I know where you are coming from there! Our credibility was in the balance on this issue having been called in to do the Access 97 to 2000 upgrade and being caught out in the process.

Removing the DLOOKUPs sounds like a good idea. As well as their very helpful suggestion (cough) of reverting to Access 97 (after it was far too late), Microsoft also suggested migration to SQL Server. Removal of DLOOKUPs would help if you ever decided to go that route. We couldn't do it (much as we would have liked to) because it would have been too much additional effort.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

7:45am UK time, and I'm about to start on my day client's work, but thought the following may be of use.

My database is less than a quarter of the size of Glasgow's, about 80 Tables, 75 Form forms, 60 queries and about same number of reports. There is one very complex form with 8 tabs and many subforms, which I think probably opens most if not all tables in the db.

My problems seem to be with the one form, a sub form on a data entry form, I enter a Sales Rep, with his customer and method of contact, ie whether he is visiting, phoning etc on the main form, on a sub form I enter his objectives, these are of the form, 1.1 - 'Flog him stuff', or 1.2 - 'ask for payment' or 3.7 - 'just say hello' etc. The sub form is a continuous form and can display 4 objectives before needing to scroll (may or may not be significant)

Each form of the sub form has 4 visible fields and 2 hidden, the hidden are the Pk and the link to the Rep table.  Of the 4 visible fields, 3 are lookups, one a memo. of the lookups one is a description populated by my own function getObjectiveDesc(field, form) the field is used to lookup the desc, the form is for logging errors (this function is called from various forms)

I appear to have a hierarchy of errors, First is the 3197, next is the Bookmark, finally there is an error generated in my function getObjectiveDesc, which claims that the field is not an object.  I say hierarchy, because I believe that 3197 is when access gives up and stops engine, the bookmark error, is I think after that and my form can read the table, but Access possibly hasn't finished something, and the same with the getObjectiveDesc error - access hasn't, I think, got the 'Objective' field ready in the bound sub form. So it may be I'm close to having an error free process, maybe a delay in my code may help - but I'll try that tonight, back to my musings.

I have moved from intermittent 3197's, via a similarly intermittent Bookmark error to the almost predictable 'getObjectiveDesc' error.  I've managed that by recoding the 'save' proc in the rep form. Now it works as follows, first sub form now uses a temp table in front end, NOT the live objectives table in the back end as it did originally.

a) Saves rep using recordset
b) Uses CurrentDb execute SQL to insert objective records from temp table into live
c) Uses CurrentDb executeSQL to delete objective records in temp table.

With those changes I've moved to being able to regularly obtain the getObjectiveDesc error by adding more than 4 objectives on the sub form. 4 or less and thing saves fine (so far, but maybe if I tried long enough I may get the 3197 errors again) If I add 5 or 6 (my biggest attempt so far) I get the error message, BUT after clicking OK, the form appears blank, ready for input, AND the 6 entries are in the database.

Now it may be coincidence that 4 objective entries saves without error, more than 4 don't - given that a maximum of 4 can be displayed on the sub form before scrolling.

I will continue testing tonight, but I find this rather depressing, as unless I've now corrupted something, Access should surely be able to cope with this level of complexity?

Barring a miracle, my Customer will be rather disappointed when I have to report on my progress tomorrow!  :-(

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
I wonder whether you should be struggling with this so much? Do you have an MSDN agreement with Microsoft? It might be worth raising a support incident with them so at least, when you have to report bad news to the customer, you may be able to lay the blame with Mr Gates. If necessary, I can dig up our own incident number so they can compare.

We struggled for ages on this (and on a fixed price contract) before effectively coming clean with the customer. We offered some workarounds but, to be honest, we were far from happy with that solution as we thought it a matter of time before something similar cropped up elsewhere in the application. Convincing the customer to archive off some older data was not so difficult especially when offered the additional carrot of likely  performance improvements in addition to disappearance of the symptoms.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

I'm on a fix priced contract too, and I do have MSDN Universal subscription, runs out in April mind you.  I just can't believe that Access can be hamstrung by such trivial task and am convinced it must be something I'm doing.  I'm particularly concerned as my app  is only a quarter the size of yours.  

I 'm going to mail the customer tonight with the bad news.

Thanks for all your time and advice, it has been most helpful.


John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Well if you have an incident or two left on MSDN, you might as well use one up before they expire. Just maybe you'll get a different result from us.

One thing I forgot to ask - I assume you have applied all available Access & Jet service packs? I know that one of Jet service packs (circa Sep 2003) resolved one of the problems we were experiencing.

Good luck.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Thanks for the advice, I'll check I've upgraded my system - I use VMWare to produce various environments and it is more than possible I've failed to update this one.

I've never used MSDN incidents, I don't suppose I could bother you again to ask what you do to raise an MSDN incident can I?

Again thanks for your efforts.

John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
You get 4 incidents per year on Universal I think - i.e. problems you can get MS to investigate. Might as well get your money's worth. 99 times out of 100, I use Tek-Tips and it is fine. But, in this case, I used an incident - though ultimately it was credited back because they didn't really resolve it.

You can do it on-line I think but I suggest phone. Are you in UK? If so, call 0870 5010100. They will obviously ask for some ID (subscription or contract no). Is MSDN in your personal name, someone else's name or company name? Make sure you suss that first in case they refuse to deal with you personally when you call.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

TVM, I've given you a star for this, as I never realised I could do that, in all the years I've had the subscription!

If anything useful comes of it, I'll post it here

regards

John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

I am in Texas and have experienced exactly the same error.
Out of desperation I put acDataErrorContinue into the error for the form.  This kills the error.  Yes the error still occurs.  It appears when I go to another record in a bound form it errors. got both errors as you described.
I did clean the database, no help. Can't back up, and having a lot of problems with it. converted using acess routine to go  from access 97 to 2002.
HELP!!!!!

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

My errors are intermittent, and I've no corruption so I'm not sure if the circumstances are the same. I have experienced the same errors due to corruption, but in this instance there is no corruption.  I've informed Microsoft via an MSDN Incident, and am awaiting a response.

AS I said earlier in this thread, I'll post here any response from MS or any fix I may find.

regards

John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

A Microsoft Engineer has just emailed me, so I'm told, with some suggestions, unfortunately, I won't be home until late tonight, but I'm also hoping to speak to the Engineer on Wednesday afternoon, UK time.   I'll post anything of use up here.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
That's an obligatory phase. Understandably, they're not going to jump straight to the conclusion 'oh yes, this one is our fault, Access 97 is better'. However, for your sake, I hope they come up with a different conclusion.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

These are the links the MS engineer sent to me.

This message assumes corruption, where I think there is none, but I thought I'd paste the links anyway

If you are, in fact, encountering random database corruption, then you will
want to review the following web pages, and apply the suggestions therein:

    ACC2000: How to Troubleshoot and Repair a Damaged Jet 4.0 Database
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=209137

    ACC2000: Defragment and Compact Database to Improve Performance
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=209769

    ACC2000: Updated Version of Microsoft Jet 4.0 Available in Download
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=239114

    ACC2000: Jet Compact Utility Available in Download Center
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=273956

    ACC2000: Unexpected Project Corruption in Access Database
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=280433

    ACC2000: Table Corruption After Referential Integrity Checks
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=296389

    HOW TO: Keep a Jet 4.0 Database in Top Working Condition
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=300216

    ACC2000: How to Troubleshoot Corruption in an Access Database
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=306204

    How to Obtain the Latest Windows 2000 Service Pack
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=260910

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Still looking at this with the help of Microsoft, and the thinking at the moment is that the sub form has not completed it's update before my code on the parent form starts updating the database - interestingly enough my comment earlier regarding the number of entries visible on the subform

'Now it may be coincidence that 4 objective entries saves without error, more than 4 don't - given that a maximum of 4 can be displayed on the sub form before scrolling.'

seems to be significant, if we expand the subform, we appear to push the figure before failure up to the number of displayed (and partially displayed) sub form records!

That was this afternoon, I'm not 100% convinced that this is the cause, I tend to think it is a symptom - but we are looking at VBA code in the parent to try and figure when the sub form has finished committing it's records.  I will keep you all informed.  I think both MS and I now agree that there is no corruption, although they have not ruled it out completely, but do suggest if there is, it is very subtle.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Sounds like it is following a similar path to our own problem where similar suggestions were being made by MS but sounds also like they are delving a bit deeper with your case than they did with ours so it will be interesting to hear the final outcome.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Have Microsoft waved their magic wand yet?

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Errm, no, but they are very friendly!

In fact I've figured out most of the 'fixes', one that has removed the 'consistent' error without inceasing sub form 'window' size, was simply to stop the sub form container on the main form being disabled when there was no main form data entered.  They think it was a 'thread problem', but I'm now of the opinion (tentative!) that the 3197 and 'bookmark not found' may not be related to the object not found that I think we've fixed. The 3197 & bookmark  are so intermittent however, it could be weeks before I can confirm if this also fixed these 8-(

Nice though the guy is, I'm rather surprised, as he appears to be a developer just as I am, and whilst I may not have as much experience with Access as he has, I know the App and have worked on this problem for a considerable time, so I had expected that maybe they would look "under the bonnet" so to speak - it appears they haven't. If they do come up with anything else I'll let you know.  I'm about to release a new version to my customer, so I should find out if there is any improvement.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Possible final update

a) The 3197 error (and it appears the bookmark errors) I eliminated by recoding to prevent 2 forms being open at the same time - even though one was set up to read the data as snapshot etc, it appeared that this had no effect as the datasource was a query.

b) Before I could solve the above, we had to make the sub form container remain 'enabled' as otherwise any attempt to save more sub form records that could appear in the sub-form without scrolling, produced an 'object not found' error in one of my functions where a bound field was being passed.

My testing after the above changes worked fine, and the amended database is now back with the user, I am awaiting feedback, so far it has been with them for 4 days, but they need to be prompted for information so until I do that (this evening) I cannot confirm all is now well.

Suffice it to say, I and MS are now convinced that the 3197 error was genuine, and it was confused by a bound sub form issue.

John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

I am experiencing a VERY similar issue with the error 3197.  It started when converted from 97 to 2000.  It happens very predictibly for me.  Its on an Invoice form with a payment subform.  On the Invoice form a "Find" button opens a dialog popup type form to select the invoice and display it.  It happens not on the first invoice payment, but only on the second round of Find/display/enter payment.  The payment on the 2nd invoice is entered and as soon as I move either to the main invoice form or to a new record on the payment subform the error occurs. Another thing - it only occurs if there are no existing payment records for the invoice.  I can get this to happen every time I do it.  I have the latest service pack and I've done the stuff on the MS Knowlege base website suggested to fix corruption & no better.  I am working with a front end/backend situation and I converted the backend back down to 97 and left the frontend in 2000 (just to see what happens) and the error goes away.  Now if the data was corrupt (which I'm not convinced), does it un-corrupt it when converted back down? For now, we have taken our customer back down to 97 until we can resolve this issue - and from what I've been reading here, is not very promising.
The frontend is 75MB and the backend is 110MB

Linda in MN

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Hi Linda,

IF your problem is the same as mine (and it sounds rather likely) then it isn't a data corruption, it is something to do with the way Access 2000 works, a timing issue of some sort between the sub form and main form - my error became very predictable and the man from MS decide it was the along those lines.  I haven't got the emails that passed between us to hand, but I will look and see if I can find them over the weekend.  You may like to try moving further up the Access 'range' to 2003 and see what happens.  My customer appears able to live with the new situation, particularly as the number of concurrent users has fallen, and this seems to have an impact; the error occurs less frequently - although maybe my changes to code and the form helped. I'm afraid I don't know. My customer was understanding when I explained that it was an Access issue. (Although having the Microsoft emails may have helped!) Had I the luxury of being able to move the backend database engine to MSDE I would have done so, to see what happened, but I have to earn a living and my customer was (and is) happy with the database as it is, warts and all.


Good Luck

John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Linda - have you investigated volumes? Are you working over a network? It might be worth taking a few steps to ensure you are working in a 'streamlined' environment - i.e. low volumes on dedicated stand-alone PC. If it works in that environment then you may be on the same trail I was. If not perhaps there is a different explanation.

Our final solution was to run the purge I referred to earlier in the thread - by reducing the volumes by about 50% or so, it seems OK.

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

Me again Linda,

Re Glasgow's reply, my problems occurred even in a low volume environment, so Glasgow and I appear to have/had different problems.

By low volume I mean, in my case, with only me on the PC, and in the case of MS, with only the MS contact on the machine,  - IIRC the MS copy of my database was stripped of all but the bare necessities for the form to run, and it still produced the error.

regards

John

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

I receive the error even when I have the front and back end on my local drive.  I changed some code to do an db.execute instead of an .Update and then error changed to the Bookmark error instead of the 3197.  I did purge out a bunch of data from a copy of the user's backend database here on my local drive to reduce to only the current year info(reduced to less than 7,000 recs) and it seemed to eliminate the error.  However, sadly this is not an option.  They need to have much more that one year available at all times, due to the nature of the business.  I am at my wits end at what to do to fix this.

Linda in MN

RE: Error 3197 but not corrupt

(OP)
Do you HAVE to stay with Access 2000. Is revert to 97 or upgrade to MSDE/SQL an option?

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