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Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

(OP)
I have two similar servers. One is the PDC running NT Server 4.0 SP4. It runs one NIC, it is the DHCP server and a file server. It was set up by an outside agency.
I have new server sitting directly beside this one. It is a BDC and is being used as a test server for MS Proxy and was set up by me (guess which one has the problem. :) It is running NT Server 4.0 SP5, and MS Proxy. I've installed Whats Up Gold on both of these computers so that I can see what they can see without having to individually ping everything.

The server that is running MS Proxy(the new server) is not able to see the same computers as the PDC at any time. It can see all LAN computers, the router, and computers on the other side of the router just like the PDC. But it can't see any of the remote locations(WAN) in any way. I can't ping them, I can't telnet, as far as this computer is concerned, the remote locations don't exist. The router I spoke of switches all traffic back to our vendor company, while we use Micom multiplexors to handle all the traffic on our internal WAN. The PDC can see all computers on the WAN, but not this computer.

As another aside, our PDC went down earlier this month. While it was down, all computers lost their ability to get to the router which in turn killed the internet, email, etc. I'm assuming that these problems are related since it seems that one computer knows where everything is, and all the others don't know diddly.

As long as the PDC is up, all clients have visibility to all other computers on the LAN and the WAN.

My question is do I have an issue with the LMHOSTS file? I've been meaning to take a look at it but I'm not familiar with it so there is a bit of a learning curve and I just haven't taken the time to learn. This is my first step in that process.

Thank you all for your time and your help.

Dan Moore
mooredan@jddealer.com.

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

Look at all TABS and settings in Network Icon on PDC.
Jot them down or Look at same in BDC.
TCP/IP etc.

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

If TCP/IP shows same subnet on both machines, then recheck your "Default Gateway". Remember, Netbeui is not routable.

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

(OP)
Ok, sorry for the delay in getting back to this thread. We've had the "Storm of a lifetime" or whatever the talking heads are calling it.

I have looked at all the things that were suggested, thank you for your help. All TCP/IP settings seem to be correct, they don't match exactly, as they shouldn't. I am not using Netbeui. I am using TCP/IP only on all computers Here is the deal. The new server is acting as a proxy for the network, but only on a test basis. I've got all my clients still set to use DHCP on the PDC, and everyone is still set up like they will be routed through the router, to our vendor, and out to the internet. The clients that I am using to test the new internet through are using DHCP as before, but now have the Win Client proxy setup so that they can go to the new server. The server itself is set up statically on the internal NIC, and dynamically on the external NIC. I do not have a gateway entered on the internal NIC as I lose all internet access when I do. However, if I enter our standard gateway into the internal NIC, I regain all visibility to our WAN but lose all access to the internet, at the server and at the client. I guess my question is, how can I have the internet and the internal network at the same time. Do I need to manually set up something on a routing table or LMHOSTS file so that I can blank the gateway? There is another recent thread here that is talking about the same issue and I am going to study it a bit and see what I can find. If anybody has any more tips, please pass them along.

Dan Moore

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

Not sure if I understood the problem! Try setting the standard gateway to the internal NIC and tick the IP forwarding option and restart. That should give access to the WAN and route the Internet traffic to the external NIC.

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

(OP)
Sorry if I'm a bit confused on this and therefore don't make sense.

I've tried setting the standard gateway on the internal NIC and the IP forwarding option has always been checked. If I set the normal gateway on the internal NIC I see all of my network, but none of the internet. If I clear the gateway(make it blank), I see part of my internal network and all of the internet. I always see my ISP(DHCP from the ISP works) regardless, I just don't see any websites.

Thanks

Dan

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

Are the address ranges of the computers across the WAN you are trying to connect to added to the LAT of the Proxy Server? This is probably why you cannot ping the machines or telnet to them. As far as browsing, I would change the proxy server so that it does not maintain the browse list. In the registry, change the value of MaintainServerList to equal "no", and change the IsDomainMaster to "false". This should force Proxy server to use the PDC as the browser computer.

These entries are in:
HKeyLocalMachine\system\CurrentControlSet\services\browser\parameters.
Also, let the gateway on the internal NIC empty.

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

(OP)
Bruce,

Thank you. I was pretty sure that the gateway was supposed to be empty, but I'll try anything twice. I pretty much assumed that there was something with the Local Address Table or LMHosts or whatever. I just didn't know what it was. I do know that all of my internal addresses have been added to the local address table in Microsoft proxy. We use the 10.x.x.x range and I've excluded the entire range, from beginning to end. I'll make the registry changes that you suggested and see if that helps.

Thank you for your help.

Dan Moore

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

(OP)
Bruce,

I've made the changes that you suggested. The master browser was already set to be false, and I changed the maintain a browse list to no. Now I get service specific error 2550 because NT is upset that I set it to "no" but that's no big deal. I've made sure that the gateway is empty on the internal NIC and that MS Proxy has all the internal addresses in the Local Address Table. I included from 10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255. That should take care of all the 10. range. My situation now, and how is has been since the beginning, is that I cannot see any computers on the WAN from this computer, and I forgot to mention before Two DNS servers at our vendor show the DNS service being down, although they are not since I see them from the other server. Therefore DNS is not available over the router with the default gateway cleared on the internal NIC. I just checked and DNS is the only service that is available to test at our vendor, all other services are turned off so all I know is that DNS isn't available through the router, while I can still ping the routers and servers.

Any ideas?

I had a suggestion earlier today to use WinRoute from www.tinysoftware.com rather than MS Proxy. I'm thinking of downloading it and giving it a go.

Dan

Dan Moore
mooredan@nospam.jddealer.com

Tell me again why FORMAT C: won't work...

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

Dan,

I saw your post on nowonder and thought I would reply here instead of closing the call at the other site.
I will be honest with you, I know very little about routing tables but after talking to several people about your problem, all have said this is definately an issue with the routing table.
Make sure the routing table is not full and also take a look and make sure the IP address of the BDC is in there.

Jennifer
jennifer@nowonder.com

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

(OP)
Ok, now my question is, are we talking about the routing table of the Cisco router or are we talking about the server that is acting as a router? If it's the server, where do you find the routing table?

Dan

Dan Moore
mooredan@nospam.jddealer.com

Tell me again why FORMAT C: won't work...

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

I am completely confused at this point....

Cisco Router: How is that attached to the network (directly to the network, located in a DMZ with a NIC on a NT Server (ie the PDC or BDC). What is the configuration of the router? (ie how are the ports setup and what are their IP addresses)

PDC: What is the gateway address for this machine? Are the workstations using the PDC as their gateway out or are they using the Cisco Router's IP address as their gateway?

BDC: How is the dirty NIC connected to the outside world? Connected directly to the Cisco or via the network to the Cisco?

Yes, it probably is a routing issue, but its tough to say exactly where the issue is. It really depends on the setup of the network -- the Cisco's routing table may need a static route to the BDC, although this might be tough with a dynamically assigned IP on the dirty side of the BDC.

Alright, here are the questions you need to ask yourself...
1. What is the path from a client workstation to the internet or the WAN? (ie workstation --> BDC ethernet port 0 --> Proxy Server --> BDC ethernet port 1 --> Cisco ethernet port 0 --> cisco serial port 0 --> ISP --> internet). Now, what are the addresses of each of those interfaces? Does the workstation have its default gateway setup as BDC ethernet port 0, or is it set to PDC ethernet port 0. If the later, is there a static route in the routing table ("route print" from the command line to see the routing table).

If you can, give us a little more physical idea of the network, where IP addresses are and what is connected to where from the workstation all the way to the internet. If you cannot ping the computers on the WAN via IP address that is an indication of a routing problem and hosts/lmhosts is not going to cure that. Once we can ping via address then consider why you cannot ping by name or see via Network Neighborhood, etc.

Hope this helps a little....

Paul

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

(OP)
You think YOU are confused!! :)

Ok, I'd could probably explain it better if I could draw you a map.

Maybe if I go in chronological order of how the network was built, it will help.

We started with a LAN at the home office. We then installed Micoms in all locations and installed LANS at each remote, connected to the LAN at the main store via frame relay to give us a WAN. Then, our vendor decided that we needed to have a direct link to them so they arranged to install a frame relay circuit. They contracted the telco and shipped the Cisco router. All of this was installed at their spec and the Cisco router belongs to them, I don't touch it and don't have access to it's configuration. It is connected directly to a switch on the rack, along with all the servers and hubs. We were able to purchase email and internet access through them.
So we had a WAN connected to our vendor over a router and all PCs used that connection. This was stable for quite some time.

Then, I decided that we could have internet locally that would be cheaper and faster, so I ordered a new connection, ADSL, which terminates at a modem. Then I took a new server with dual NICs and statically mapped one to our LANs settings, except for the gateway which was left blank. The other NIC was dynamically assigned by the ISP. I am running Microsoft Proxy 2.0 on this server. I have not modified any routing tables, edited any files, or changed anything other than having set up these programs as described and making the changes suggested here. NIC #0 is the dirty NIC as you described it, it connects to the ISP. NIC #1 is the clean NIC and it connects to the LAN.

The PDC is also the DHCP server, the WINS server, etc. it's address is xxx.xxx.xxx.10 The Cisco router is address xxx.xxx.xxx.1 The default gateway for the PDC is the Cisco router, the .1 address. The default gateway for all clients is xxx.xxx.xxx.3 I believe that the .3 address is a kind of virtual address created by the PDC, that then reroutes the gateway traffic to the Cisco.

The BDC's dirty NIC is not directly connected to the Cisco at all, rather it is connected to the ADSL modem directly, then the clean NIC goes to the switch, then to the Cisco via the switch.

Now, your last question. How the connection flows from point to point. I'm originating all these connections at the BDC server itself so that eliminates the workstation from the mix. If I'm pinging the internet, I go from the BDC Server, to the dirty NIC(ethernet 0) to my ISP, then out. If I'm pinging the PDC I'm going from the BDC, to the clean NIC(ethernet 1) to the switch, to the NIC on the PDC, to the PDC. If I'm pinging our vendors router at their site. It's from the BDC, to the clean NIC(ethernet 1) to the switch, to the Cisco router, across the frame, to their router on their end. If I'm pinging a remote location the ping goes from the BDC's clean NIC(ethernet 1) to the switch, to a Micom 10K, across the frame, to a Micom at the remote site, to a BDC at the remote site.

Once again, I can accomplish all of those pings, except for the one to the remote site. If I put the default gateway xxx.xxx.xxx.3 in the clean NIC on the BDC like I have it on the clients, then I am able to ping the remote sites, but the internet is no longer accessable.

All clients are up and running with the default gateway entered xxx.xxx.xxx.3. The test clients that I'm using have the same gateway as normal clients, they just have MS Proxy client loaded. The browsers are configured for a direct connection to the internet and everything works at the client side as long as the PDC is up and running. If the PDC goes down, everyone loses visibility to the WAN, all clients and all servers.

I know all of this is confusing, it's definitely confusing me but I hope that clears things up.

Dan

RE: Two servers don't see the same computers on the network.

(OP)
Ok, it's fixed. Once I learned how to edit the routing table, I just had to put some entries in the table on the BDC and it works fine.

Thanks for all the help.

Dan Moore
mooredan@nospam.jddealer.com

Tell me again why FORMAT C: won't work...

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