More of a legal than a technical question

I think that is everywhere. Overtime starts at the 40 hour a week mark. [sig][/sig]

I've been reading this

Page 7 of 85, apparently it does say 40 hours is the mark, also it says 45 is the mark if you are in the amusement and enertainment business.

Of course my other question might be, if I were to say somehting about this, could they say something like &quot;well that extra goes into...&quot; etc etc. [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
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If its the law, its the law. They are tryn to be cheap. Be aware they may retaliate against you if you call them on it.

Going back to your first post, it probably is legal to tell someone their job requires them to be there 44 hours a week. BUT those 4 extra hours are on the time and a half scale.

I assume this is NOT a salaried position. [sig][/sig]

actually it is a salaried position, but that makes me ask because , it says a minimum of 44 hours a week for my salary, but not more than 50 hours a week, but if they complain about me doing only 44 each week, what benefits do I get for any extra hours worked past, frankly I feel that If I was still working hourly at a 44hr rate I would be making more than my salary. [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
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I believe that this law applies only to houlry employees. A salaried position is a whole different ballgame. I know several people (not in NC) that must work 50 hours a week, for which their salary is based.

Although it may feel like you are working 6 hours for free when you put in 50 hours, there are several inherent benefits. First, and most important, you will be perceived as a team player, concerned about the progress of the company. This is what management likes to see, and will eventually pay off in the long run. This, of course, is a blanket statement that will not apply to all organizations.

By the sounds of it, along with some of your previous posts, you are not happy with your current job. Since we spend about 40%-45% of our waking lives working, it only follows that you should enjoy your job. If you are not happy, find a new one!

Just my two cents.

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I like my job itself, as far as the coding goes, but the company has been well inconsittant, It's more my concern towards my employer than it is to the job. For example helping one of the two day new Employee train, as I was getting a point across to him, my CEO snaped at him, yelled some comment, (not at me, but to the new employee) I mean this is a brand new employee, I have to go through that kind of accusations and what not from day to day most of the time, but I have been here nearly a year, also some strings are attached, for example, my appartment is part of the salary, I guess what I am saying, is if the time ever comes that he just blows up about some senseless thing , and me and one of the only remaining employees get fired, or something, I would wish to have somehting to back me up in most unexpected situations. But since the overtime thing doesnt apply to salary, I guess this thread is finished. [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
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Karl:

I am only 99% certain that the law applies strictly to hourly employees. It may not hurt to further investigate the question.

TC [sig][/sig]

I only plan to investigate it, I dont see it as a means of &quot;getting back&quot; if you get my meaning, but for future reference, considering that this current job is my first professional job, and my first salary based job. So IMO I have to use it as a good learning experience, for example, I dont want to just go through get the job done and learn what the job takes, but also use it as a experience for professional enviroments and labor based info, so that in new jobs, I know what to look for, and to know what can be, and what cannot be done.

for example, the company I work with has a &quot;Bogus&quot; contract, that states that while working with this company, if for some reason you leave, or are terminated, you cannot goto a competitor, for a period of 2 years (you cannot tell someone who you can or cannot work for, but it scares the novice people, the reason they put that in, is they were afriad of people giving away company secrets after quiting, you can tell they are amatures when it comes to trying to make a confidentiality agreement) [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
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Actually, the non-competition agreement is legal and enforceable in most situations. This also holds true for the confidentiality agreement. Now, is the company going to hire a high priced lawyer (like there is any other kind) to enforce this? Who knows? [sig][/sig]

yea but we're talking about a small software company with less than 3 employees, if the contract is indeed legal, that means if I quit this job, or get fired, I cannot work for a software company, or a company that even makes software for 2 years, I couldnt be a programmer/software engineer, and my carreer would be ruined for the time being. [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
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It would only apply to DIRECT competition. Typically, these agreements also include some type of geographical range (i.e. a 50 mile radius). Although it may never become an issue because of the company size, you should always watch your back. No one else will! [sig][/sig]

you were right about Direct, basically the contract meant , I could not solicite direct competition to the ESC (Employment Security Commision, we contract for them) [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
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Management level people and two types of &quot;Highly Paid Computer Professionals&quot; are not necessarily entitled to overtime. Here is an article on BrainBuzz: &quot;Computer Personnel Are Entitled to Overtime &quot; By John J. Porter, Esq. that relates to this issue.


[sig]<p> Jeff<br><a href=mailto: masterracker@hotmail.com> masterracker@hotmail.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br>If everything seems to be going well: you don't have enough information.......[/sig]

that is a very good reasource for an &quot;overview&quot; kind of what I Was looking for, according to that thing, I dont fit into any of the exempts from overtime, for example

1) I dont get paid more than 33/hr (I wish)
2) I am salary but only 30K, and I am at more or less entry level, not very high professional, since I have no formal training.
3) well I dont manage anyone, there is no one below me

so forth, I mean right now we have 3 unhappy employees (me , the other guy, and the 3 day new guy) and were the only employee's other than The CEO and his wife, the new guy is definitly getting ready to leave, I have a feeling the other one is too, and currently it isnt doing me any good, I'm trying to cut down on expenses so that I Can be prepared for the worse. [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
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A bit of history...
I spent a year at a small, family owned and operated computer company. They mostly repaired hardware but had begun to venture into networking. Husband and wife ran the joint and the step-son to the CEO was the inhouse programmer and networking guru. I landed the job because they were a family friend with my parents. I was hired on salary to work in the inventory department and be trained as a tech. through Microsoft certification (MCSE). Also, he offered to pay for part of my rent to &quot;help me out&quot;, but I said no to that. No contract or papers were ever signed by either of us.

The problem....
The CEO (let's call him Bill) was independently wealthy and knew he needed no one to help him because he had gotten there himself. I learned that Bill liked to integrate himself into peoples lives and try to control their decisions (because his way was the only way they could be succesful). The promise to train me was never fulfilled and when I inquired about the training he denied the discussion ever took place. If ever something wrong because of Bill's wife or step-son the blame always fell on someone else. God forbid you get stuck in the middle of a family fued because they brought it to work. Bill also cut corners on finances such as not passing a discount onto the customer for parts he got a discount on.

The resolution.....
I left. I am not advising you to leave, this will have to be your decision. Should you seek legal counsel, be sure it is truth not rumor. And if you chose to challenge your boss on these issues, insure you have a plan &quot;B&quot; and &quot;C&quot; with a new place to live in both plans. If there is a contract, have it reviewed by your legal counsel for any loop hole. The salary, apartment , and hourly thing (in my opinion) are just a way he is trying to control your life. Overall, I recommend to find the simplest and most painless way out of there, try not to burn any bridges if you can help it. Also, remember you are early in your career and mistakes don't hurt you as much now as they can later in life.

I hope this will help and if you wish to ask me anything, feel free. ;-)

[sig]<p>Turbo<br>[/sig]

The &quot;Bill&quot; Person sounds very much like my CEO, the only reason he got me the appartment and paying utilities was to
1)&quot;help me out&quot;
2) didnt want me to leave the company, and move with my family

My ceo is the kind of guy who makes a great programmer, but a poor manager(IMO), idependantly wealthy, he wont buy anything expensive, unless he can either show it off, or brag about it. (there are times he brings me back in his office to show me his new digital camera hooked up to firewire, funny thing is, both products are what &quot;I&quot; recomended weeks before)

Also if there is a group conversation, he HAS to be the star of the show, if there is something interesting about yourself, he has to be the one to mention it.

I feel wishy washy about him, there are traits that can make him a complete a***le but then there are those other traits that are nice to know, in general he's ok, but if something stands for accusations it's never his or his wife's fault (go figures) and has often acused people.

For example, I rember having 1 can of compressed air in the office, it got used up, over the course of a couple weeks, now for some reason he belives he paid 8$ for each can (he thinks he bought 2 cans) and was accusing people of possibly feeling the need to take the extra can.

It's just little things, well the good news though is that he gave me a 1500$ bonus this week on my paycheck in &quot;appreciation for helping the guys&quot; (refering to my 2 new co-workers who are still trying to get the knack)

The legal issue is I want to be sure only if ...
1) I have to quit
2) I get terminated

as long as I can hold the job, I really dont mind too much (the bonus had some influence on my opinion, which obviously shows the slight tension money can cause)

Just to clear things up and all.

he gave me a bonus, so I have to be doing something right.

Karl
kb244@kb244.com
Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)

Karl,

Couple of questions:

Is your salary on a par for people your/age/experience/local? Including the apartment?

Do you visit TT during your working day or in the evenings?

I work for one of the worlds largest consulting firms. I have worked 50hr+ weeks for the last 6 months on a project. Graduates are expected to work the same.

The pay when you convert to dollars is not much more than what you get, and the grads are getting less than you are!!!!!

I think that you are doing very well financially. If you want to move to a larger company you'll have to learn that unpaid overtime comes with the territory!!!!!



Cal

thought for the day .. if the economy in your area will support it - why not go contracting and be your own semi-boss ? if you are not trained/qualified to a standard that will allow you to go looking for alternative work, then it is YOUR responsibility to get trained (books, internet, evening school etc) - believe me as i talk from personal experience, whatever cash you spend as an investment in yourself will come back several fold.

i was with also a senior it consultant with one of the 'big 5' international consultancies and could not stomach (amongst other things) the unpaid overtime as a salaried employee. some people are lucky to have a dream job but the rest of us are only numbers ... the boss only cares about the bottom line. i am not a bitter person but i have realised that whatever you want you have to get yourself !

another thing that you could consider is slowly extracting yourself from dependency on current employer eg find and move to new accomodation etc so that if you do decide to jump ship (or worse are pushed) you will ahve less strings attached.

bottom line - if you are not happy then PLAN to move - always minimise your dependence on others where possible


Best of Irish Luck, David.
djwilkes@hotmail.com

I just heard a very interesting report on NPR (National Public Radio) that focused on the topic of paid overtime.
As far as overtime law, check with the Department of Labor. The laws have nothing to do with whether you are salaried or hourly. I too was caught by this common misconception. There are several factors that influence the requirements for paid overtime, which are sometimes hard to interpret. Contact your local Dept. of Labor for your particular situation.