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FastRAD over Ethernet

FastRAD over Ethernet

FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
There is an old closed thread about this, I am hoping someone who has done this can help me troubleshoot.

- I can connect to the FastRAD directly via serial port.
- I have a NetBurner SB72-EX Serial to Ethernet Adapter
- I can connect to the virtual com port (their software) and have successfully tested between two computers using the steps here: https://www.netburner.com/learn/how-to-create-a-vi...
- When I try to connect to the FastRad I continually get a RAD did not respond error. I have tried a straight-through and null modem cable

I'd greatly appreciate any troubleshooting advice!

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

Keep it as "straight-through" cable.

What exact steps (on the NRU software) are you doing to connect?



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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

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RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
- Browser Tool
- Com 3 (the virtual com port)
- Direct
- 9600
- Connect

Results:
Initializing COM port 3
RAD did not respond

If I pull the serial cable from the Netburner and connect directly to COM 1 on the computer (and set Browser to Port Com1), it connects.

I think there must be some difference between how the PC serial port and the Netburner serial ports communicate. Attached is a screenshot of the Netburner settings:

https://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=...
https://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=...


RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

Well since your fastrad and the NRU software is proven to work it's time to test the NetBurner in standalone.
Disconnect the NetBurner from the Fastrad and jumper pins 2 & 3 on the NetBurner RS232 port. This will create a loopback.

Fire up a terminal emulator program (HyperTerm in XP). If you're running a version of Windows newer than 7 you'll have to scout around for a terminal program (lots of free ones available). Configure the terminal program for the virtual serial port of the Netburner and type a few keys on the keyboard. If the keys you type appear on the screen the NetBurner should be working OK.

Oh, if that step worked disconnect the jumper from pin 2 & 3 and try typing again and you shouldn't see any characters in the terminal window. If you do then the terminal program is in half duplex and you'll have to change settings to full duplex and try again.

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
Actually, I did test the Netburner (see the link in my original post). It worked fine between two computers. Thanks.

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

I guess I've got to brush up on my reading skills.

According to your screen shots the number of characters to accumulate before sending a TCP packet is set to 32
and the number of msecs to wait for accumulated characters is set to 100.

I believe that would mean that NRU has to send 32 characters to the NetBurner virtual port and if 32 characters are not received then the NetBurner virtual port waits 100 msec before it sends characters to the Fastrad.

If NRU expects a reply from the Fastrad faster than 100 msec you'd get a timeout.

Try setting the number of characters to accumulate to "1" from "32" that should get rid of the 100 msec wait time before sending to the Fastrad.

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

Have you tried without the network/switch/hub? or with if not tried?
PC > Adpator > RAD instead of PC > Network > Adpator > RAD

This would rule out network issue and probably narrow it down to software settings.

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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

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RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)

The test I did originally to confirm the settings and NetBurner were OK went:

PC -> Virtual Serial Port (IP based) -> NetBurner Ethernet port -> Netburner -> Netburner Serial port - Another PC

Using MTTY, it communicated fine both directions, So I am confident that the virtual port software and Netburner device are working as designed.

I'm thinking software setting, as well, something the RAD is expecting isn't coming across.

I have a message out to NetBurner to see if I can get any assistance there.

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

Yes and already understand:
We know PC to PC with adapter over network works
We know PC direct to RAD works

However that was not the question, I am asking have you tried it without the network in between the PC and the Adapter.
PC > Adapter > RAD

Simple to do/test so the network can be checked off the list.

Honestly I don't care about the 2nd PC.





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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

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RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
Sorry, I misunderstood your question.

The adapter is Ethernet to Serial and works with Netburner software. You use the software to create a virtual serial port that is mapped to the IP address and port of the NetBurner, and the RAD connects to the serial port on the adapter.

I suppose I could use a crossover cable to connect directly to the Netburner, if that is what you mean?

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
Is it possible to connect via serial to FastRAD without using the Remote Utilities? Just to troubleshoot, etc.?

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

I don't know of anyway to troubleshoot RAD via serial, only to use NRU or to update the firmware and in case you are wondering about the firmware the only fix was to allow a Target line to answer.

Let me explain what I was trying to suggest...

The idea of the Netburner is so you can program the Norstar from a remote location , to do this you must have your PC on one end attached to the network and the Netburner attached to the other end of the network.

Scenario 1 - same building
You and PC in one office
Netburner and RAD in phone room
This scenario uses the Internal Network

Scenario 2 - remote office
You and PC are in the main building
Netburner and RAD in another building
This scenario uses both Internet and 2 Internal Networks

Network being jacks, cabling, patch panels, patch cords, switches, router/modems.

What I am suggesting is remove the network from the picture in either/or scenarios above:
-load virtual com onto laptop with the Netburner software
-go into the phone room with a laptop
-change laptop IP address to 192.168.1.10
-change IP addresss on Netburner to 192.168.11
-Connect patch cord from PC to Netburner, connect Netburner serial to RAD
-On the PC's NRU software connect to com 3 and see if it works

I know you know all this or can read between the lines on what to do now but wanted to spell it out just in case.







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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

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RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

Hmmm, unless you have a handshake issue I'm still running on the theory of a timing problem.

A couple of shots in the dark.

Leave the chars to accumulate at 32 but change the number of msec to wait to "1" from "100".

Theory behind this: 9600 baud (bits/second) is approx 960 chars/second. 8 bits of data + 1 start bit + 1 stop bit or approx one character per millisecond. So NRU will send chars to the virtual serial port every millisecond (one character timing).

Without a logic analyzer on the tx and rx leads of a normal pc to fastrad hookup we're just guessing at numbers so play around with them.

You could also try lowering the baud rate from 9600 and see if that changes things although that lower speed would be painful to use in production as the few times I've used NRU were molasses slow already.

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

You could be right indeed.

My first thought is the Netburner is like a BCM, too many settings to please the world.
The one and only one I have ever touched was almost 20 years ago and all I recall was that is was simple.

When the error "RAD did not respond" that would say it NRU does not see a RAD therefore no handshake.
"You could also try lowering the baud rate from 9600"
That's a good idea too.
On local landlines that were in rural area's we had to play with this up or down, usually down so maybe the network is simulating a bad line.

doughonea have you tried Hyperterminal or Putty yet?











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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

Add me to LinkedIN

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
Curly,

I've used mtty and successfully communicated between two different computers through the NetBurner (a slight variation of the testing protocol in the link in my original post -- that called for a loop back to the same computer.).

That testing makes me very confident that the virtual port, NetBurner, and network are working right. There is just some idiosyncrasy about the RU and FastRAD that I can't nail down. That's why I wondered if there were some sort of commands that I could issue through PuTTY that the FastRAD would acknowledge.

I lowered the speed to 4800 through the F** command and set the virtual port to 4800 as well. For some reason, though, the RU connection properties only offers 9600 and 19200 for a Direct connection. Ideas?

Honestly, I only have five of these systems to maintain, and changes are fairly rare. I can spend $100 on an old laptop with a serial port and just go onsite. If I can't figure this NetBurner thing out in the next day or so, that's what I'm going to do. Not that hard to program a CICS from a set, but it is nice to be able to back up and restore the config.

THANKS to all of you for your advice and assistance!!

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
I would add that the only *successful* posts in Tek-Tips about this used Digi One SP adapters. Maybe the NetBurner just isn't compatible.

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

You keep referring to what you have done in the first post.
I also said I don't give a rats ass about the 2nd PC.....it's a Bloody RAD you are trying to connect!!!!!

Seems that you cannot give straight answers to simple questions and that you are not willing to try anything that is suggested or cannot understand the simple concept of removing the network from the equation as a test.

For those reasons I am bowing out and will not be wasting any more of my time on this BS.

Good luck on your issue.







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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

Add me to LinkedIN

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
@Curlycord

WOW! That's pretty harsh. I didn't say I wouldn't do what you asked, I just haven't had a chance yet. I have to build a crossover cable to be able to connect to the NetBurner. Also, I don't have a laptop with 32 bit Windows right at hand, so I have to get that, as well.

Hope you have a great day, and thanks for all the GREAT assistance you have given me in the past!





RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)

@rrmass: Just as an FYI: I connected a router to the NetBurner serial port to test and I can reach it without any problems. FastRAD just seems to have some issue with the "flavor" of serial that the NetBurner speaks. As I noted, there are no posts that mention successfully connecting to FastRAD with a NetBurner, only with a Digi One. I'm just going to pick up an old laptop with a physical serial port, load RU on that and move on.

@curlycord and @rrmass, I really do appreciate both of you being willing to donate your time on this site to assist others. You truly provide a great service!

Thank you.

Doug

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

Thanks

Yes it was harsh, sorry!
It is frustration when one is defensive and does not communicate properly.

I have made an error in asking about about putty or hyper....so used to using them both on BCM that I momentarily forgot it's NRU you are needing to work with.

Cheers




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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, Canada

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RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

(OP)
No problem! We all face that frustration from time to time. I do user support for a living so I am very familiar with communication issues. I appreciate the extraordinary support you provide here--quick to answer and always good information.

Have a great day!

RE: FastRAD over Ethernet

Almost certain the netburner drivers do not support 16bit method of communicating with the serial ports that the Nortel remote utilities is using. Likely only works with 32bit compatible software.

The DigiPort adapters are more likely to work because they have a long legacy of this stuff so their drivers have all the old 16 bit support hooks to grab the serial port data that the NRU uses. You can go to their website today and download Windows 98 and NT 4.0 drivers for the Digi One SP and TS series.

You need a device that was around back in the early 90's or at least is based off something that shared similar driver history going back that far. I used to use the Digi products to deploy old school dumb terminals for IBM unix boxes in the 90's. I remember setting up the ethernet versions for remote branch offices then. I also used them for dos software running under windows XP that communicated with CNC equipment. The digi drivers have no problem with the legacy stuff.

Now my alternative to what you are trying to do is just stick an old PC you can remotely control on the RAD and not worry about tunneling the serial data. Just remote the machine with VNC or remote desktop.

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