they want me to get a flu shot 12

Without getting into the ins and outs of whether getting a 'flu jab is a smart idea (you clearly think it isn't), tell them it is against your religion.

I definitely would not advertise your thinking " Flu shots are dangerous and accomplish absolutely nothing."

Opinions are not arguments and likely to fail.

I would start with your union rep. I all likelihood, as you work in a medical environment, I would find it likely that your union has agreed to these measures and you would need a doctor to sign off on your exemption.

If you are not in a union, employment standards would apply. Again, I would find it likely that you cannot refuse except with the express permission of a doctor.

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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

I don't deal with patients or sick people.

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What! You NEVER encounter ANYONE either during working hours or not during working hours?

I can sympathize with being forced to comply with some procedure that you deem unimportant. I seethed at being forced to have pee-in-the-cup random drug testing but I knew that it was either pee or get another job. Fortunately, somebody else's drug problem is not contagious.

Who knows: maybe your company is getting a break in their health insurance cost by sticking every employee with flu shots.

Skip,

_{Just traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!}

I'll just come out and say it. Unless there is a compelling health reason for NOT getting the flu shot (e.g. allergic to shot components) the flu shot is extremely beneficial and effective for you and all of society. Even if it's not an exact match for the flu strain of the year, it builds immune response that will likely reduce your suffering IF you got the flu.

You risk killing someone's elderly mother or father if you get the flu and go out into society sneezing and dripping the virus all about. I think it's just selfish if you don't get one, again barring any LOGICAL reason.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

First of all, we don't have unions in information technology in America. The advice "talk to your union rep" is worthless.

The medical history argument is likely the best way to get out of this. I will see what I can do. I am already fully committed to leaving this job anyway.

First of all you should read ALL of a persons comment before replying.

I'm getting the sense that you simply want someone to agree with you. I agree that you should leave the job.

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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Flu shots are dangerous and accomplish absolutely nothing.

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No they aren't 'dangerous', that's just what the conspiracy "experts" claim, when using fifty year old dis-information to provide 'evidence'.

For the vast majority of reasonably healthy individuals they make very little to no difference to the state of your health after the 'shot'.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

@ChrisHirst re:

No they aren't 'dangerous', that's just what the conspiracy "experts" claim, when using fifty year old dis-information to provide 'evidence'.

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In the same fashion that I criticised OP for his opinion stated as fact, I cannot let a statement such as this stand.

No vaccine is without risk. Some are more prone to risk than others. Some have had incidences of increased risk due to contamination or poor procedures that have affected popular public opinon negatively and permanently. Everyone has their own threshold of acceptable risk. Most people's threshold for the risk/benefit assessment falls on the benefit side. Some people have difficulty accepting any risk.

The Flu Shot is one of the safest vaccines available and has one of the lowest risk assessments possible. In my opinion, anyone without a medically backed reason should consider getting a flu shot. Anyone who works in an environment where there are people at high health risk from flu symptoms, should be required to protect themselves and others. I have found in the past that work contracts in these environments typically require vaccination as a term of employment.

For more information on the risks / safety see: CDC - Flu Vaccine Safety Information

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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

In the same fashion that I criticised OP for his opinion stated as fact, I cannot let a statement such as this stand.

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Modern Influenza vaccines, which is the topic of the thread, do not use a 'live virus' in low doses, the virus is 'inactivated' so about the only 'risk' is being allergic to eggs.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

>I cannot let a statement such as this stand

And yet, you then agree that the flu shot is "one of the safest vaccines available and has one of the lowest risk assessments possible".

So what is it you are not letting stand? Seems to me Chris was 100% correct to say that the flu shot is not dangerous (not dangerous is not the same thing as without risk, especially where the risk is very, very minor). And even risk also has to be seen in context. A minor risk of a sore arm, for example, versus death.

I'm not arguing for either side, but from my personal experience, I don't get them. I have only had the flu once in the last 15 to 20 years. That happened shortly after getting the only flu shot I've ever had. There's no proof that it was caused by the shot, but since then, I don't get the shot and I haven't had the flu. This is purely anecdotal.

Barring that, I do believe in flu shots. Also, when working in health care, it's part of the job. You may not work with patients or sick people, but you probably do come in contact with people that do. My wife works in health care and has to take a number of shots each year to be able to work in a hospital. It's part of the job.

What you need to do is man-up and talk to your boss. Tell him you don't want to take the shot for personal reasons and ask if it's a requirement. If he says it's not a requirement, you're off the hook. If he says you need to get it, then you need to again, man-up and either quit or get a flu shot. Flip a coin if you can't decide. It's really quite simple.

What you shouldn't do is go on the Internet looking for people to side with you. That's stupid. You can find people to side with ANY position on the Internet.

>There's no proof that it was caused by the shot

You can't get flu from a flu shot. There's no live flu virus involved. This is not opinion or anecdote. It is fact.

You can however get flu after having a shot, because a) it takes about 14 days for the antibodies to develop subsequent to getting the shot and b) sometimes there is a strain of flu around that the shot does not protect inoculate against (WHO mostly get it right, but not always)

I have only had the flu once in the last 15 to 20 years. That happened shortly after getting the only flu shot I've ever had.

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Probably not full blown Influenza, as when the 'flu shot was a very low dose 'live' virus, you can develop "flu-like symptoms" a day or so after, simply because your immune system does what it is supposed to and 'attacks' the infiltrator, thus building the necessary anti-bodies then flushing out the 'foreign' material and while this bout of 'chemical warfare' is being fought in your body you might feel a 'bit rough'.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

@ Strongm

If Chris had just said the Flu shot is not dangerous then I would not have had anything to say.

Unfortunately, he continued with

that's just what the conspiracy "experts" claim, when using fifty year old dis-information to provide 'evidence'

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That part of his statement is not true and just as inflammatory as the original. Using hyperbole to argue with hyperbole is pointless and does not further your argument.

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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

I take it you have never looked at any "anti-vaxxer" mis-informational propaganda then.



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

Chrishirst said:

so [highlight #FCE94F]about[/highlight] the only 'risk' is being allergic to eggs.

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That word "about" covers a lot of things. You seem to be stating that the only concern is having an egg allergy when that is not in fact the case.

CDC Site linked earlier said:

People with severe, [highlight #FCE94F]life-threatening allergies[/highlight] to flu vaccine or any ingredient in the vaccine. This might include gelatin, antibiotics, or other ingredients.

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Keep in mind, a lot of people are unaware of whether they are allergic or not and some people, like myself, develope allergies later in life. I can no longer take any penicillin derived antibiotic for example and I was fine until 51 yrs of age.

CDC Site linked earlier said:

If you ever had Guillain-Barré Syndrome (a severe paralyzing illness, also called GBS). Some people with a history of GBS should not get this vaccine. Talk to your doctor about your GBS history.

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Another thing to keep in mind other than Egg Allergies

Further re:GBS

CDC said:

Some studies have found a possible small association of injectable flu vaccine with Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS). Overall, these studies estimated the risk for GBS after vaccination as fewer than 1 or 2 cases of GBS per one million people vaccinated. Other studies have not found any association.

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So there is debate about whether the vaccine can cause GBS in 1 or 2 cases per 1 million people. The data is not conclusive but until it is this MUST be considered a risk.

So, don't attempt to dismiss the risks with incomplete data. I am quite confident that this is not a complete list as I only took 10 minutes collecting the info.



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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Don't think you read all the CDC stuff about GBS properly in your 10 minute skim. They say 1) it is an association, not that it is causal. 2) the same study showed there is a greater association between GBS and getting the flu; indeed the odds were 17 times higher (17.2 incidents per million) if you had flu.
And 1-2 per million is, in any case ... well, very, very, very tiny.

@Strongm - No I noticed, association or not it is worth noting and can (or must) be considered a risk IMO.

1-2 / million is low granted but when 100's of millions are vaccinated yearly the number of cases become significant.

You seem to be mistaking me for arguing against vaccination. That is not the case. I am simply supporting my statements that rinks exist to be assessed and the Egg sensitivity is not the only consideration.

I consider the benefits to outweigh the risks significantly (For the record)

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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Don't be difficult. Take the jab. Do it for the herd. There exists a purpose higher than than your or my hopes and dreams.
It's about getting mankind to the stars.
We've got enough crap to deal with as a race than to have to worry about 16th century diseases. We're still trying to overcome 1st century religions and 7th century thinking in regards to treatment of our fellow men.
As a race, we don't have time. Take the jab.
The person who doesn't get your disease may go on to invent the hyperdrive or cure death.
Think large, act local.

Let me play my playmo please.