Without getting into the ins and outs of whether getting a 'flu jab is a smart idea (you clearly think it isn't), tell them it is against your religion.

http://labor-employment-law.lawyers.com/human-reso...

I definitely would not advertise your thinking " Flu shots are dangerous and accomplish absolutely nothing."

Opinions are not arguments and likely to fail.

I would start with your union rep. I all likelihood, as you work in a medical environment, I would find it likely that your union has agreed to these measures and you would need a doctor to sign off on your exemption.

If you are not in a union, employment standards would apply. Again, I would find it likely that you cannot refuse except with the express permission of a doctor.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Quote:

I don't deal with patients or sick people.

What! You NEVER encounter ANYONE either during working hours or not during working hours?

I can sympathize with being forced to comply with some procedure that you deem unimportant. I seethed at being forced to have pee-in-the-cup random drug testing but I knew that it was either pee or get another job. Fortunately, somebody else's drug problem is not contagious.

Who knows: maybe your company is getting a break in their health insurance cost by sticking every employee with flu shots.

Skip,

_{Just traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!}

I'll just come out and say it. Unless there is a compelling health reason for NOT getting the flu shot (e.g. allergic to shot components) the flu shot is extremely beneficial and effective for you and all of society. Even if it's not an exact match for the flu strain of the year, it builds immune response that will likely reduce your suffering IF you got the flu.

You risk killing someone's elderly mother or father if you get the flu and go out into society sneezing and dripping the virus all about. I think it's just selfish if you don't get one, again barring any LOGICAL reason.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares."

First of all, we don't have unions in information technology in America. The advice "talk to your union rep" is worthless.

The medical history argument is likely the best way to get out of this. I will see what I can do. I am already fully committed to leaving this job anyway.

First of all you should read ALL of a persons comment before replying.

I'm getting the sense that you simply want someone to agree with you. I agree that you should leave the job.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Quote:

Flu shots are dangerous and accomplish absolutely nothing.

No they aren't 'dangerous', that's just what the conspiracy "experts" claim, when using fifty year old dis-information to provide 'evidence'.

For the vast majority of reasonably healthy individuals they make very little to no difference to the state of your health after the 'shot'.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

@ChrisHirst re:

Quote:

No they aren't 'dangerous', that's just what the conspiracy "experts" claim, when using fifty year old dis-information to provide 'evidence'.

In the same fashion that I criticised OP for his opinion stated as fact, I cannot let a statement such as this stand.

No vaccine is without risk. Some are more prone to risk than others. Some have had incidences of increased risk due to contamination or poor procedures that have affected popular public opinon negatively and permanently. Everyone has their own threshold of acceptable risk. Most people's threshold for the risk/benefit assessment falls on the benefit side. Some people have difficulty accepting any risk.

The Flu Shot is one of the safest vaccines available and has one of the lowest risk assessments possible. In my opinion, anyone without a medically backed reason should consider getting a flu shot. Anyone who works in an environment where there are people at high health risk from flu symptoms, should be required to protect themselves and others. I have found in the past that work contracts in these environments typically require vaccination as a term of employment.

For more information on the risks / safety see: CDC - Flu Vaccine Safety Information

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Quote:

In the same fashion that I criticised OP for his opinion stated as fact, I cannot let a statement such as this stand.

Modern Influenza vaccines, which is the topic of the thread, do not use a 'live virus' in low doses, the virus is 'inactivated' so about the only 'risk' is being allergic to eggs.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

>I cannot let a statement such as this stand

And yet, you then agree that the flu shot is "one of the safest vaccines available and has one of the lowest risk assessments possible".

So what is it you are not letting stand? Seems to me Chris was 100% correct to say that the flu shot is not dangerous (not dangerous is not the same thing as without risk, especially where the risk is very, very minor). And even risk also has to be seen in context. A minor risk of a sore arm, for example, versus death.

I'm not arguing for either side, but from my personal experience, I don't get them. I have only had the flu once in the last 15 to 20 years. That happened shortly after getting the only flu shot I've ever had. There's no proof that it was caused by the shot, but since then, I don't get the shot and I haven't had the flu. This is purely anecdotal.

Barring that, I do believe in flu shots. Also, when working in health care, it's part of the job. You may not work with patients or sick people, but you probably do come in contact with people that do. My wife works in health care and has to take a number of shots each year to be able to work in a hospital. It's part of the job.

What you need to do is man-up and talk to your boss. Tell him you don't want to take the shot for personal reasons and ask if it's a requirement. If he says it's not a requirement, you're off the hook. If he says you need to get it, then you need to again, man-up and either quit or get a flu shot. Flip a coin if you can't decide. It's really quite simple.

What you shouldn't do is go on the Internet looking for people to side with you. That's stupid. You can find people to side with ANY position on the Internet.

>There's no proof that it was caused by the shot

You can't get flu from a flu shot. There's no live flu virus involved. This is not opinion or anecdote. It is fact.

You can however get flu after having a shot, because a) it takes about 14 days for the antibodies to develop subsequent to getting the shot and b) sometimes there is a strain of flu around that the shot does not protect inoculate against (WHO mostly get it right, but not always)

Quote:

I have only had the flu once in the last 15 to 20 years. That happened shortly after getting the only flu shot I've ever had.

Probably not full blown Influenza, as when the 'flu shot was a very low dose 'live' virus, you can develop "flu-like symptoms" a day or so after, simply because your immune system does what it is supposed to and 'attacks' the infiltrator, thus building the necessary anti-bodies then flushing out the 'foreign' material and while this bout of 'chemical warfare' is being fought in your body you might feel a 'bit rough'.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

@ Strongm

If Chris had just said the Flu shot is not dangerous then I would not have had anything to say.

Unfortunately, he continued with

Quote:

that's just what the conspiracy "experts" claim, when using fifty year old dis-information to provide 'evidence'

That part of his statement is not true and just as inflammatory as the original. Using hyperbole to argue with hyperbole is pointless and does not further your argument.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

I take it you have never looked at any "anti-vaxxer" mis-informational propaganda then.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

Quote (Chrishirst)

so about the only 'risk' is being allergic to eggs.

That word "about" covers a lot of things. You seem to be stating that the only concern is having an egg allergy when that is not in fact the case.

Quote (CDC Site linked earlier)

People with severe, life-threatening allergies to flu vaccine or any ingredient in the vaccine. This might include gelatin, antibiotics, or other ingredients.

Keep in mind, a lot of people are unaware of whether they are allergic or not and some people, like myself, develope allergies later in life. I can no longer take any penicillin derived antibiotic for example and I was fine until 51 yrs of age.

Quote (CDC Site linked earlier)

If you ever had Guillain-Barré Syndrome (a severe paralyzing illness, also called GBS). Some people with a history of GBS should not get this vaccine. Talk to your doctor about your GBS history.

Another thing to keep in mind other than Egg Allergies

Further re:GBS

Quote (CDC)

Some studies have found a possible small association of injectable flu vaccine with Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS). Overall, these studies estimated the risk for GBS after vaccination as fewer than 1 or 2 cases of GBS per one million people vaccinated. Other studies have not found any association.

So there is debate about whether the vaccine can cause GBS in 1 or 2 cases per 1 million people. The data is not conclusive but until it is this MUST be considered a risk.

So, don't attempt to dismiss the risks with incomplete data. I am quite confident that this is not a complete list as I only took 10 minutes collecting the info.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Don't think you read all the CDC stuff about GBS properly in your 10 minute skim. They say 1) it is an association, not that it is causal. 2) the same study showed there is a greater association between GBS and getting the flu; indeed the odds were 17 times higher (17.2 incidents per million) if you had flu. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/P...

And 1-2 per million is, in any case ... well, very, very, very tiny.

@Strongm - No I noticed, association or not it is worth noting and can (or must) be considered a risk IMO.

1-2 / million is low granted but when 100's of millions are vaccinated yearly the number of cases become significant.

You seem to be mistaking me for arguing against vaccination. That is not the case. I am simply supporting my statements that rinks exist to be assessed and the Egg sensitivity is not the only consideration.

I consider the benefits to outweigh the risks significantly (For the record)

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Don't be difficult. Take the jab. Do it for the herd. There exists a purpose higher than than your or my hopes and dreams.
It's about getting mankind to the stars.
We've got enough crap to deal with as a race than to have to worry about 16th century diseases. We're still trying to overcome 1st century religions and 7th century thinking in regards to treatment of our fellow men.
As a race, we don't have time. Take the jab.
The person who doesn't get your disease may go on to invent the hyperdrive or cure death.
Think large, act local.

Let me play my playmo please.

Yeah, I can't see working at any medical location and not being told you have to get a flu shot. I've never gotten one, and have no desire to do so, but in your situation, I would probably just go ahead and get the shot. I've slightly considered it myself once or twice.

I'll have to look that up about live vs not live virus, by the way, from what was mentioned once or twice. When the Pediatrician gave my son the flu shot when he was 1 or 2 years old (I don't remember exact age), she stated that the version for toddlers or small children did not have the live virus, but the one for older folks did. That was definitely modern times, as he's only 10. Has that changed in 5-8 years?

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

@kjv1611

Quote (CDC)

The vaccines either contain inactivated virus, meaning the viruses are no longer infectious, or a particle designed to look like a flu virus to your immune system. While the nasal spray flu vaccine does contain a live virus, the viruses are changed so that they cannot give you the flu.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Thanks for that, kwbMitel. Good to know.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

"First of all, we don't have unions in information technology in America. The advice "talk to your union rep" is worthless."

Perhaps you want to rethink your assessment. While there may be no IT unions per se, there are plenty of IT positions within unions. Here's one now: www.unionjobs.com/listing.php?id=9938
Additionally, my daughter works with an entire IT department whose members are in a union. I'm pretty sure they would be able to consult with a union rep. So perhaps the advice is not as worthless as you think - just not applicable to you, apparently.

Right off of the CDC website:

The viruses in the flu shot are killed, so people cannot get the flu from a flu vaccine. However, because it takes about two weeks for people to build up immunity after they get the flu vaccine, some people may catch the flu shortly after their vaccinated, if they are exposed to the flu during this time period.

Trying is the first step towards failure. --Homer Simpson

Quote (mojoputter)

Right off of the CDC website:

Quote:

after their vaccinated,

Somehow I doubt that the CDC would make silly grammatical errors such as using 'their' instead of "they're".

"their" is a possessive determiner, whereas "they're" is a contraction of "they are"

So the "quote" ought to be;

"... after they're vaccinated,... "

OR

"... after their vaccination,... "

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

That exact line appears to be from this page, not the CDC.


Although the same information is on the CDC site.

ChrisHirst's comment:
"Somehow I doubt that the CDC would make silly grammatical errors such as using 'their' instead of "they're"

Don't doubt it. All their pencils have erasers on them.

I lived with the war stories of their little goofs for 20 years until my SO retired.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

Everybody seems EXTRA cranky.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares."

Here ya go Chris, please chek for gramatical errors and let the CDC now

Egg-Based Flu Vaccines

The most common way that flu vaccines are made is using an egg-based manufacturing process that has been used for more than 70 years. Egg-based vaccine manufacturing is used to make both inactivated (killed) vaccine (usually called the “flu shot”) and live attenuated (weakened) vaccine (usually called the “nasal spray”).

The egg-based production process begins with CDC or another laboratory partner in the WHO Global Influenza Surveillance and Response System providing private sector manufacturers with candidate vaccine viruses (CVVs) grown in eggs per current FDA regulatory requirements. These CVVs are then injected into fertilized hen’s eggs and incubated for several days to allow the viruses to replicate. The virus-containing fluid is harvested from the eggs. For flu shots, the influenza viruses for the vaccine are then inactivated (killed), and virus antigen is purified. The manufacturing process continues with purification and testing. For the attenuated nasal spray vaccine, the starting CVVs are weakened viruses and go through a different production process. FDA tests and approves vaccines prior to release and shipment.

There are many different manufacturers that use this production technology to make flu vaccines for use in the United States. This production method requires large numbers of chicken eggs to produce vaccine and usually takes longer than other methods used to produce vaccine.

Trying is the first step towards failure. --Homer Simpson

No major errors in the CDC text you quoted .... ... YOUR text however, ...

Quote:

please chek for gramatical errors and let the CDC now

Has three glaring errors.

Check (it has a 'c')

grammatical has TWO 'm's

And the last word should be know.


The CDC text does have at least one minor error,

... grown in eggs per current FDA regulatory requirements. ...

should be;

"... grown in eggs as per current FDA regulatory requirements ..."

To be grammatically correct English, because "as per" is synonymous with "in accordance with", whereas the usage of 'per' on its own, is a replacement or synonym for "by means of"



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

I'm betting someone swallowed that 'Hook, Line and Sinker'

Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.

You are correct mattKnight, got me a big'un

Trying is the first step towards failure. --Homer Simpson

Cranky.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares."

Nope, but if you don't want an answer DO NOT ask the question.

Because I really do not care if something is posted as a childish "watch this" and ask for the grammar errors to be pointed out, ... ...


You WILL get exactly what you ask for, and I will not "feel" that I am been ridiculed. Plus from now on I will be completely justified in patronising you because that is the impression I have of you from now on.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

Chris -
Instead of "whereas the usage of 'per' on it's own", I believe you meant "whereas the usage of 'per' on its own".
"It's" is a contraction of "it is", whereas "its" is the possessive form showing that something belongs to "it".

At Chris and Carp - LOL (Loving it)

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

Quote:

Instead of "whereas the usage of 'per' on it's own", I believe you meant "whereas the usage of 'per' on its own".
"It's" is a contraction of "it is", whereas "its" is the possessive form showing that something belongs to "it".

Absolutely correct. Thank you point pointing that ironic typographical error out.

Post now corrected.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

And ... I can assure you that I won't be posting from my phone with predictive on ever again!

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

Predictive can be more than a little annoying - especially since it seems to cloak errors until you press "Return"!

Oh yes, 'predictive' is far too good a word to be used for such things, "Make a wild-arse guess" would be closer.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afm3vjn0PuQ

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

Quote (Because I really do not care if something is posted as a childish "watch this" and ask for the grammar errors to be pointed out, ... ...)

Sorry Chris, I was a minor league pitcher at one time, and if I can put one down the middle in someone's wheel house, I will

Trying is the first step towards failure. --Homer Simpson

mojoputter: Well, if you pasted website quotes as well as you pitched, maybe this thread wouldn't have gotten as ridiculously off-track as it has.

Quote:

Sorry Chris, I was a minor league pitcher at one time, and if I can put one down the middle in someone's wheel house, I will

I have no idea what that even means, :)

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.

Never mind this jesus character, stars had to die for me to live.

You are correct Guitarzan, after all this nonsense, I wonder what Johnnygage ended up doing..?

Trying is the first step towards failure. --Homer Simpson

Died from a flu shot.

Corpulent before his time.

AWOL since 6 Nov 16 22:03.

Maybe he couldn't take the election results.

Skip,

_{Just traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!}

Sloped off to Canada?

Corpulent before his time.

Canada does have internet so he COULD have posted an update.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares."

But then it's the flu season up there too.

Corpulent before his time.

Wait - the theory was that he was already dead. Unclear if he went to Canada to avoid flu shot or as a result of the election. Would be ironic if flu killed him in Canada regardless of reason for leaving.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares."

Please no more.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

Last part of this post has been the best, RIP Johnnygage

Trying is the first step towards failure. --Homer Simpson

This is what happens when you ask a question, rile up the regular posters and then disappear!

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares."