×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS

Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you a
Computer / IT professional?
Join Tek-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Tek-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

I have no hope

I have no hope

I have no hope

(OP)
I have no hope. I have been in this career for 15 years. I am still swapping tapes and doing intern-level work. I make a salary about the mid $40,000 range.

I have a 135 IQ. I scored a 790 on the SAT in math. I had a lot of hope for this career. I have none now and don't believe that I will ever do what I am capable of doing. My brains have been wasted, and I don't believe that they will ever be utilized.

I was optimistic when I got into this. I had high hopes. I worked hard and cared about my success.

I don't care anymore. I don't want to touch a computer anymore.

I am desperately searching for some way out of this drudgery. Assuming I make the choice to stay alive, what options do I have? And why should I stay alive?


RE: I have no hope

When you say "this career for 15 years" do you mean in the same job for that time?
If so that's a long time in one job by any standard.

If you mean you have been in a number of different jobs have you simply been applying for something you feel comfortable with?

If you are reluctant to apply for something which challenges more than your current role why not go for something in a different industry?

It may seem a drastic step but it may give you the incentive to get up in the morning and see what you can achieve.

Failing that, what about studying for a qualification in something outside of your comfort zone? You sound as if you would be more than capable of achieving something which would help you move forward. If you have the time and resource it can only be a good thing.

As far as "...why should I stay alive?" well, it's better than the alternative, however you may be feeling right now.

As we say on this side of the pond, "Chin up old man."

Good luck.

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: I have no hope

It sounds to me like you need help with depression and that is beyond what can be provided in a technical forum. As gjgoldstein pointed out, it also sounds like you need a job / career change, which very well may be part of the answer and solution you need. My advice would be to seek some counseling.

RE: I have no hope

>It sounds to me like you need help with depression

+1
And do it now, not later, now! It amazing how much better something as simple as looking for that help may make you feel.

Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.

RE: I have no hope

(OP)
I have went after dozens of jobs. I have had probably hundreds of failed job interviews.

Applying for a job does not mean that I will get one. Asking for a job does not mean that I will get it. That applies to a new career as well as a job. A new career also likely means moving down in money, which is something I don't want to do.

I am working on a novel right now. I will be publishing it. That is one hope I Have.

When I meet kids who are majoring in stuff like computer science, I tell them to stay the hell away from this.

The only other thing I do is take lots of acting classes. I love the people. And unlike IT work, I can actually meet women there.

As far as classes are concerned, I was an MCSE on NT 4.0. It was worthless. I haven't bothered with anything else since then.


RE: I have no hope

1. Assuming you've been at your current position at least a month, have you made it clear that you are interested in EXPANDING your role and knowledge in the computer field?

2. If not, are you stating in the OBJECTIVE section of your resume (if you have one) or in the cover letter for the position that you are interested in positions where you have a chance to grow your knowledge, career planning, and things like that?

3. When you interview, do you also focus on these topics when the interviewer asks you if you have any questions?

If not, you need to be doing so. Believing that you have no hope show in your attitude. There is hope. You need to get focused again.

====================================
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw


RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (hjgoldstein)

When you say "this career for 15 years" do you mean in the same job for that time?

No, I have changed jobs. The longest on a job was about three and half years.

Quote:

If you mean you have been in a number of different jobs have you simply been applying for something you feel comfortable with?

I have applied for many jobs. I have applied for jobs which may have been over my head. I have applied for jobs which I thought I could do, even though I didn't have the experience.

Quote:

If you are reluctant to apply for something which challenges more than your current role why not go for something in a different industry?

I have no confidence that another career will be any better than this one. By "different industry," do you mean getting out of IT? Or do you mean getting out of where I am?

By a lot of standards, I have a better employer than most. That is one good thing I can say. I don't believe we are allowed to transfer until after a year though.

Quote:

Failing that, what about studying for a qualification in something outside of your comfort zone? You sound as if you would be more than capable of achieving something which would help you move forward. If you have the time and resource it can only be a good thing.

I was once A+ Certified. I was once an MCSE--it was on NT 4.0. What qualifications do you mean? I have found that certifications are absolutely worthless.

If I believed that there was a path to IT success, I would try to get on it. If I believed that such a path existed, I would have no hope.

I honestly believe that I could be a CCIE with the right experience. I honestly believe that I could do work that would command six figures. I don't think IT work is that hard. I have never been given a chance to do challenging work. I have had a job which had a path for career growth.

I do tae kwon do. It takes 16 belt tests to get to a black belt. Nobody gets a black belt overnight. It works like this. I learn the skills to get a senior white belt. I pass the test. I learn the skills for a yellow belt. I pass the test. I learn the skills for a senior yellow belt. I pass the test.

I have never had any opportunities to go anywhere in my career. I go back and do the same stuff over and over. It is tedium, apathy, and monotony. I am sick and tired of this. I am disgusted and have every reason to be. I keep taking the same belt test, and I keep passing the same belt test.

RE: I have no hope

Quote (nicholasharris)

I have no confidence that another career will be any better than this one

You're right. It may not be any better but it will be different. It sounds form your first post (leaving out the "stay alive" stuff) that you are:

a) bored;
b) unfulfilled;
c) feeling taken for granted;
d) feeling undervalued (by your employer and yourself).

What is your employer's key industry? Are there any openings (ok, after the year) internally which you could fill, maybe combining the tape-changer/intern duties with something else that they need? Speak to them and tell them how you feel. The worst they can do is say "no."

When I mentioned qualifications I meant to suggest that you study something that you can be challenged by. I completely agree that most certifications aren't worth the paper they are written on, let alone the time and effort involved. I would look for a study course in something you love, have always wanted to do, and you can then maybe plan a career change into something exciting and new.

There is no silver bullet here. Find something you can be enthusiastic about - the way you once felt about IT. To expand on your analogy: switch from Tae Kwon Do to Judo. Same belt structure, different tests.

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (hjgoldstein)

a) bored;
b) unfulfilled;
c) feeling taken for granted;
d) feeling undervalued (by your employer and yourself).

You got it.

Quote:

What is your employer's key industry? Are there any openings (ok, after the year) internally which you could fill, maybe combining the tape-changer/intern duties with something else that they need? Speak to them and tell them how you feel. The worst they can do is say "no."

I actually think they would listen and care enough to consider my feelings in all this. I'm not sure what they could do though.

I keep hearing all the propaganda about how there is a "shortage of talent" in IT. And there are plenty of people who good jobs in IT who aren't that smart.

Quote:

I would look for a study course in something you love, have always wanted to do, and you can then maybe plan a career change into something exciting and new.

It is hard for me to get excited about anything. I honestly don't believe that any career would be any different.

And I have tried other changes. I made a big move in 2004. I applied to the Peace Corps in 2002, but didn't get it. I remember how enthused I was about moving to a new city. When you have been enthused and disappointed as many times as I have, you eventually stop getting enthused about anything.

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (johnherman)

1. Assuming you've been at your current position at least a month, have you made it clear that you are interested in EXPANDING your role and knowledge in the computer field?

I have brought up tasks that I think I could do. There are other groups who seem to have more work than they can handle. In spite of this, my team basically has to fight to get work.

When I ask other people about helping them out, I usually get the same song and dance that I always hear in this godforsaken industry: "We have lots of work. But we don't have time to train anyone who can help us." Horse manure like this is nothing in unusual, and it is a big reason why I would advise anyone to stay the hell away from it.

Quote:

2. If not, are you stating in the OBJECTIVE section of your resume (if you have one) or in the cover letter for the position that you are interested in positions where you have a chance to grow your knowledge, career planning, and things like that?

Do employers read cover letters or objectives?

I used to have hope. Why do you think I lost it? I didn't just decided one day that I won't have hope anymore.

RE: I have no hope

--> We have lots of work. But we don't have time to train anyone who can help us

Are you skilled in the areas where you can help them? If you want a more fulfilling work experience then go the extra mile and get training outside of work. If you want to go into networking and become a CCIE then buy switches and routers off ebay or a simulator and start practicing, same goes for any field. Do get certified in relevant tech unless you have years and years of experience in that field.

I was in a similar situation long ago. I wasn't fulfilled in my career so I changed it by educating myself and having certs helped me get interviews since I did not have the work experience I needed. It took awhile to get a cert, get a job in that field, get the next cert, etc but step by slow step I became happy with my career.


--> Do employers read cover letters or objectives?

Yes. Whenever I interview I read everything. Be honest, be upbeat, be personable, and be knowledgeable. Having the skills is only half the requirements, you also need to fit into and work within a team.

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote:

Are you skilled in the areas where you can help them? If you want a more fulfilling work experience then go the extra mile and get training outside of work. If you want to go into networking and become a CCIE then buy switches and routers off ebay or a simulator and start practicing, same goes for any field. Do get certified in relevant tech unless you have years and years of experience in that field.

I have generally found that this kind of "experience" doesn't count. It's better than none, of course. And as I said earlier, my experience with an MCSE tells me that certifications are worthless. When I was pursuing my MCSE, I committed to reading for an hour a day for about two years. I made that commitment because I believed that there would be a payoff. You've been burned once, and you don't do it again.

The only certifications that seem to have any respect in IT are ones that cost a small fortune just to test for. I think that's quite sad. A certification should be based on whether or not someone can do the work, not based on whether some can or can not afford to take the test. I have heard that the CCIE costs about $10,000 just to take the test.

RE: I have no hope

About 15 years ago I worked as a hardware tech and warranty repair counter. I taught myself basic networking, and started dabbling in programming. I found I had a knack and real love for programming and went to a 2 year school and got my Assoc. in it. After applying to over 400 different companies (it was just after the Dot.com bust and no one was hiring), I landed my first job. A year later 9/11 hit and my company lost 60% of their government contracts and I got laid off. That was another 400 resumes out with no luck. I.T. has not always been an easy path, but there are so many different avenues and fields of expertise, there is no reason to be board or disengaged unless you have no love of computers to begin with. I now work for a company that just in the last 5 years came off of a 90's Unisys Mainframe. We are archaic in our processes, but rather than focusing on what IS, I have learned to focus on what I can make it Become. I don't always ask for new tasks, I just do them. Sometimes I get popped for overreaching, but often I get praised for the ambition and motivation to identify a problem and just fix it. I volunteered for many of the "crap tasks" just to learn another little aspect and process of the company. We have a flat corporate structure here. There is nowhere for me to go unless my boss leaves or dies. But through patience and persistence, I convinced him to create a "Head of Software" position, and now I run the development team. It wasn't easy. It wasn't handed to me. It wasn't even an option up until this year.

My point is, I have had many highs with horrible lows in this career path. When even hope is lost, you simply have to fight through it and keep trying. Eventually, you will come into your own. I'm willing to bet there are many here that have similar stories in nature, but have persevered and came out on top.

Life rarely hands you the good cards. Sometimes you just have to go smack the dealer and take them from him.

--------------------------------------------------
“Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.” --Wernher von Braun
--------------------------------------------------

RE: I have no hope

Please don't take this as an insult. You need to seek professional help. I think it is very common for very bright people to suffer depression and feel their life is being wasted. Can you take an extended leave from work? At least 4 weeks, and do something completely different. You seem to be social with your acting and Karate. I might recommend volunteering. We all need money, but if you are just seeking to advance in your career and nothing else you will feel unfulfilled.
What would you do if you had no experience in anything but had the opportunity to learn?

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (Mountainbear)

Please don't take this as an insult. You need to seek professional help. I think it is very common for very bright people to suffer depression and feel their life is being wasted.

I don't take it as an insult at all. I have felt that way most of my life. Work really is no different from school in that regard. It reminds me a lot of having go over times tables over and over even though I had learned them years before everyone else.

Quote:

Can you take an extended leave from work? At least 4 weeks, and do something completely different.

I can't at this point. And I need about four months or more.

Quote:

You seem to be social with your acting and Karate. I might recommend volunteering. We all need money, but if you are just seeking to advance in your career and nothing else you will feel unfulfilled.
What would you do if you had no experience in anything but had the opportunity to learn?

Actually, it's tae kwon do. One reason I enjoy TKD is that there are excellent teachers there, and the same goes for acting. I find excellent teachers there. These people are real mentors.

I can honestly say that I've had one person I considered a mentor. That was in 1999. That company is out of business. I'm sad to say that I've not seen him in many years.

Mentors are very rare in IT.

One big difference about acting is quite simple. ACTORS LIKE PEOPLE. They are a complete and total contrast to all the misanthropes who work in information technology. Never in my life has a group of people treated me better than the people in the local acting community. If people in IT treated me this way, I wouldn't consider leaving at all.

And I have almost no talent for acting at all. I mainly do it because it's better than any therapy anyway.


RE: I have no hope

I'm at 52 years and counting and have faced some of the same frustrations. Using your skills as a volunteer for a charity would be one way to feel better about your life and might offor some opportunities to expand them.

The local United Way was one that I supported while they were transitioning from punched card accounting to mainframe and typewriters to networked PCs. My contribution was hardware support which was lacking from their suppliers (donor companies who dumped surplus equipment).

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (edfair)

I'm at 52 years and counting and have faced some of the same frustrations. Using your skills as a volunteer for a charity would be one way to feel better about your life and might offer some opportunities to expand them.

Let's see. I'm writing and publishing a novel. I take martial arts and acting classes. I have a job. I work out three times a week. Just, where am I going to find the time to do this? And how is volunteering going to offer me these opportunities?

RE: I have no hope

As I stated before, but with a typo, your attitude will show. And believing that you have NO HOPE can become self-fulfilling. You do have hope, but your stubborness in believing that you have no hope is holding you back. If you can't convince yourself that you do have hope, seek help. There are self-hypnosis CD's and DVD's regarding Reaching Your Potential, Chasing Your Dreams, etc. And there are people who can help with such things as well. Personally, I prefer to save the money and get the CD's first, then consult with a professional if necessary (such as when I tried to quit smoking). Personally, I like Wendi. www.wendi.com

====================================
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw


RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (johnherman)

As I stated before, but with a typo, your attitude will show. And believing that you have NO HOPE can become self-fulfilling.

You are exactly right. I remember the exact minute. It was 8 September 1999 at 3:24 pm Eastern Time. I was happy and excited. I had a great life. Then I just decided right at that moment and said to myself: "I will no longer have any hope." I made a conscious decision then and there. It all goes back to that exact moment. Right after that, my mutual funds went down. I lost job and found another one for less money.

It all started at 3:24 on 8 September 1999. At 3:23, I had hope. At 3:25, I didn't. And just like that, everything went to hell. I ruined my entire life in just one moment.

RE: I have no hope

It seems that you are in a situation which needs more specialist help than you can get from this forum.

You are not being consistent in your statements:

Quote (nicholasharris 10 Jul 13 5:02)

I have felt that way most of my life. Work really is no different from school in that regard. It reminds me a lot of having go over times tables over and over even though I had learned them years before everyone else

Quote (nicholasharris 12 Jul 13 3:33)

It all started at 3:24 on 8 September 1999. At 3:23, I had hope. At 3:25, I didn't. And just like that, everything went to hell. I ruined my entire life in just one moment.

This suggests to me that you are trying to justify your feelings by responding to others' suggestions with conflicting memories.

You appear to have a very active life outside of work - Tae Kwon Do, Acting, writing a book. Do you not take any positives out of these? Most of us have periods of not being happy at work, though we make up for it in our "real" lives. Work is, for the vast majority, a means to an end. It earns the money to pay for the good stuff.

If you are really so unhappy in your job you should actively seek an alternative. If you don't think that anything else is going to be any better - without even giving it a shot - it may be that your situation will only be improved after counselling or therapy.

Whatever you do, I wish you luck and good health.

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: I have no hope

Erm ... one suspects that there might have been a heavy dollop of irony in nicholasharris last comment.

RE: I have no hope

Quite so. I should have realised that right away.
The fact remains that our correspondent is a very unhappy person in their professional life.
My opinion remains that only a change of job/career will stand a chance of helping to solve the problems which exist.

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: I have no hope

Agreed. We've tried, but although we're professionals, we are not professionals in every field. This is outside our realm of expertise. imho, as long as nicholasharris is without hope, he is beyond help.

====================================
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw


RE: I have no hope

I have been kind of following this thread. I was going to chime in earlier but others have covered what I was going to say.
It seems that there are two possibilities.

1. The OP is pulling everyone's leg and is stringing it along.
2. The OP is in dire need of professional help and perhaps medication to control depression, mood swings, OCD, or whatever may be the problem.

I can't tell which one it is. Either way, I don't think any advice given here will help.

My $.02 (and believe me, that's all it's worth). flowerface

RE: I have no hope

I think the supreme irony is that the OP would come to a forum filled with "misanthropes" to discuss his issues. I agree with tcbiz's two alternatives. Either way, the necessary help is not likely to be found here.

RE: I have no hope

(OP)
Actually I already knew about Wendi Friesen and like her a lot.

I can think of many, many times in my life in which I had high expectations for something; and those expectations did not come true. In many cases, there were unexpected surprises. Life is full of surprises, and most of them are bad.

Did the people on the Asiana Airlines flight say, "We're going to be in a deadly crash today."? How was this a "self-fulfilling prophecy"?

Actually this board has been better than I expected. My expectations couldn't have been lower. It's safer to go into things where you have little or no expectations. If something good happens, I'm pleasantly surprised.

RE: I have no hope

I'm working in IT and training Taekwondo too (it's been about 20 years with some pauses and I'm 2.nd degree Black Belt).

IMHO, you have probably too much time to thing about your life. You have some illusions and dreams that were not fullfilled and that makes you very unhappy. Illusions are bad and makes you sick. Don't waste your mind and time with illusions and dreaming. Do not thing about what was so good yesterday and what could be so wrong tomorrow. Yesterday is gone for ever and maybe tomorrow will never come. So live fully now - do the things right now:
* Do not be weak, but hard on yourself. Think about this: "What does not kill me, makes me stronger. (Friedrich Nietzsche)"
* Train harder taekwondo in your dojang - it helps you get rid of morbid ideas
* Find some hobbies you can engage
* Search for a new job

Reading some motivating literature may help you - for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3...
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Power-Within-Chuck-No...

Do not be so naive to believe that somebody helps you, you must make the effort to help yourself.

RE: I have no hope

To the OP , something that has not been picked up on but was in one of your first posts , "i can actually meet women there" , is that one of the things that is making you truly unhappy the fact you are not in a relationship ? I ask because you seem to have all this other stuff going on and I keep reverting back to that in my mind , you have lots going for you that a lot of people do not.

Is this making the whole work thing become amplified ?? just a thought.

APSS (SME)
ACSS (SME)
ACIS (UC)

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (mikron)

IMHO, you have probably too much time to think about your life. You have some illusions and dreams that were not fulfilled and that makes you very unhappy. Illusions are bad and make you sick. Don't waste your mind and time with illusions and dreaming. Do not think about what was so good yesterday and what could be so wrong tomorrow.

Actually I can't think of very many good times.

Quote (mikron)

Search for a new job

Are you serious???????? Job hunting is--without a doubt--the most depressing activity a person can do. And I don't see how or why any job would be better than this one. I certainly have better things to do than go through a bunch of failed job interviews. I already have enough of those.

Actually there is one thing more depressing than job hunting--I could talk to my family.

It also seems quite obvious that you haven't read my posts. I take acting classes. I am writing a novel. I work out at Gold's Gym three days a week.

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (montyzummer)

something that has not been picked up on but was in one of your first posts , "i can actually meet women there" , is that one of the things that is making you truly unhappy the fact you are not in a relationship?

Yes, it is. It has for a long time. I realize that some people think that desiring a relationship is a horrible thing. But there also seems to be a consensus that we need love in our lives.

And you certainly can't look for this anywhere else. Opportunities for meeting quality women are very rare. You certainly can't do it at work, even though there are many great women in my workplace.

{quote]I ask because you seem to have all this other stuff going on and I keep reverting back to that in my mind , you have lots going for you that a lot of people do not.[/quote]

Thank you. What gave you that impression?

One thing that has been interesting about my novel writing is that I have gotten more help and encouragement there in about 15 months than I ever have in about 15 years in IT. When I talk about my novel, I get the vibe that people actually want to see me succeed. I certainly can't say that for my godforsaken technical career.

When has anyone ever helped me find or get a good job? Never. And I have made the effort to help plenty of people find jobs. It would be nice just to get equal for equal. I have given people contact information. I have passed people's resumes along to people who could actually help them. I have made suggestions.

People actually do read my novel when I ask them. They actually offer feedback. They want to see me succeed.

Telling people that you're job hunting is like telling people that you have cancer or leprosy. Nobody helps you.

RE: I have no hope

Quote (nicholasharris)


I take acting classes. I am writing a novel. I work out at Gold's Gym three days a week.
Then you have more hobbies like someone else...

I currently only train two 1,5 hour evenings a week Taekwondo and do 2 hours jogging at the weekends. That's only 5 hours in a week. The rest of my time I have to spend with my wife and children.

I don't see then a reason, why should you be unhappy.

RE: I have no hope

Just to throw this thought out there, one of the big differences between referring somebody for a job compared to offering feedback on a novel is that when you refer someone, you are putting yourself on the line. If the person gets hired and then doesn't work out, it can be seen as a reflection on the referrer. Can you think of any reason why people you know might not want to put their reputations on the line to refer you?

Quote:

I can honestly say that I've had one person I considered a mentor. That was in 1999. That company is out of business. I'm sad to say that I've not seen him in many years.

Mentors are very rare in IT.

I also had one mentor in the IT industry. (Coincidentally, it was also in the late '90s.) The way I found this mentor was that I was involved in Boy Scouts as a teenager (and later volunteered as a young adult), and he was one of the adult leaders. When an internship opened up at his company, he got me my first IT job.

A later job that I took was a referral from one of my brother's roommates. He worked as an accountant for a small company that was looking for a programmer. I ended up working there for several years.

From my experience, the best leads that I made were people that I knew socially. I would suggest continue with your acting and martial arts (I have a close-knit group of friends from my martial arts gym) and make friends. Close friends are the people who are more likely to stick their necks out to refer you.

Another thing that worked for me was working through a temp agency. I made their clients happy, and the temp agency in return was more willing to help me find long-term employment that met my needs. Again, they were putting their reputation on the line, so I started by showing them that I could deliver.

As far as meeting people romantically, have you tried any of the online services? There are free dating services that actually work pretty well for some people, including me. I messaged many women online, talked on the phone with several, met a few in person, and ended up in a long-term relationship with one. There are no guarantees, but by taking chances, you increase your odds.

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (KornGeek)

Another thing that worked for me was working through a temp agency. I made their clients happy, and the temp agency in return was more willing to help me find long-term employment that met my needs.

I've been in this godforsaken career for 15 years. Do you really believe that I haven't considered this?

I got two contracts at Dell through two different temp agencies. I was abandoned by both agencies after the contracts reached their term. Both ended because of Dell's limit of 1,450 hours. As far as I know, they got good feedback on me. In spite of this, I was still abandoned. This is even though Dell actually brought me back for a second contract and had me working with some of the same people.

All three jobs were basically go-for work. They were intern-level work. They would be just fine for me TEN YEARS AGO. I get jobs--I don't get experience.

I even turned one short-term job in 2007. It was a job that involved moving computers from one building to another. I told them that I was above opening boxes. I wanted to do real IT work. I had been in the industry nine years at the time.

Quote:

As far as meeting people romantically, have you tried any of the online services? There are free dating services that actually work pretty well for some people, including me. I messaged many women online, talked on the phone with several, met a few in person, and ended up in a long-term relationship with one. There are no guarantees, but by taking chances, you increase your odds.

I went on-line as early as 1998. I got burned out in about two years because it was horrible. Your suggestions are long on vagueness and short on specifics. If these web sites are freaking great, why don't you specify and identify them?

RE: I have no hope

I was hesitant on endorsing particular sites, because I didn't want to appear as spam, but since you requested, I thought plentyoffish.com was pretty good, and I thought okcupid.com was the best dating site out there. Even though it's free, I felt it was better than any of the pay sites. I met my fiancee through that site.

The biggest specific I could offer you is to change your negative outlook. I understand it's easier said than done, but in most of your posts in this thread (and I can offer specifics there if you need them), you come across as exceedingly negative if not hostile. If this is the way you behave in your interpersonal relationships, it could be a reason why people are choosing not to mentor you or aid you in your job hunt.

RE: I have no hope

>>>I was abandoned by both agencies after the contracts reached their term.<<<
You seem to misunderstand how temp agencies work; they are not Hollywood agents; they may be friendly, but they are not your friends. They pay you; you work; everyone is even when the paycheck clears.

>>>I told them that I was above opening boxes.<<<
Opening boxes is honest work.
You were presumably offered a lucrative rate to do so.
A professionall does his best work even when it's not fun. ... because he/she is accepting money to do it.

>>I wanted to do real IT work.<<<
I'd like to know what you think that comprises.
Designing and building enterprise apps?
Designing compilers?
Nobody does that stuff at end user site anymore, if they ever did; it's just too much work, and too much risk, for one person to bear, or for one person to be entrusted with.

I'm sorry if my impression is inaccurate, but here, you sound like a whiny prima donna, who will be tolerated so long as a critical need for your specific skills exists, and will be encouraged to ride off into the sunset at the first opportunity.

Some people nevertheless make a career out of that, accepting that their value is transitory, staying mobile, and letting their banker keep score of how well they're doing.

The other alternative involves some hard self-evaluation and a large attitude adjustment.

RE: I have no hope

Mike -
You and me both.  As soon as somebody says "that work is beneath me", I lose all interest.  I've had to clean kennels, deliver papers, and work in cucumber fields/apricot orchards to keep paychecks coming in.  If "opening boxes" is "beneath you", you are beneath contempt.  Perhaps "Rants & Raves" on Craigslist would be a more appropriate forum for the OP.  All I've seen so far are excuses about why things can't possibly work (they can and do), certifications are worthless (they most certainly are not), how IT people are misanthrops (in spite of the IT people here trying to be helpful), and how it's impossible to get anywhere in the IT field (which seems pretty silly on a forum populated by people who are making the IT field work for them).

RE: I have no hope

Quote:

When I meet kids who are majoring in stuff like computer science, I tell them to stay the hell away from this.

Out of curiosity, what path in life do you believe would have made you happier? Do you believe there is something about the I.T. industry in particular that has led to your current lack of hope? Or is it the lack of mentors and guidance that very well could have been the same for you regardless of which industry you joined?

Based on your posts, I suspect it may have more to do with your negativity and feelings of elitism rather than the people in this particular industry. After all, your experience is relatively rare compared to what most of us have encountered.

RE: I have no hope

Lets see. I have 30 years in the industry. Outside of it, since May I've had a recently retired coworker die from cancer, a family friend die three months after a diagnosis of ALS. Two weeks ago, a master teacher in history who directed me in five theatre productions and a 12:10 this morning was in the hospital saying goodbye to a dear friend when he died. A month ago he was asking to borrow my tent for a canoe trip.

Like most people who reify or should I say, deify their IQ; I've met members of mensa that I wouldn't trust with a burnt out match. I don't have much sympathy. If you're that intelligent you should know we are more than our work and if your not getting out of life what you think you should, consider you can only take out what you put in.

Telecom was not my chosen field or career. I was a professional actor at 20. I miss it dearly but this career has been a good mix of physical and mental work, and provided a moderate living. I've had no more setbacks, disapointment and joy than that of anyone else and am proud, that at 52, I'm not embittered and cynical and have not lost a childlike sense of wonder.

You need a care counsellor not a technician.

KE407122

"The phone was working fine before it knocked over my coffee."

RE: I have no hope

(OP)

Quote (KornGeek)

Out of curiosity, what path in life do you believe would have made you happier? Do you believe there is something about the I.T. industry in particular that has led to your current lack of hope?

It generally has horrible leadership. I don't have any dislike for the work itself.

My best work experiences have been working under middle-aged women. My theory on this is: middle-aged women have been around long enough that they recognize honest people who work hard. They recognize the schmoozers for what they are. They judge workers on how they do the job. They see right through the fakes.

The other thing is that women do expect you to work hard when you are there. However, they do not expect you to be there all the time.

Quote:

Or is it the lack of mentors and guidance that very well could have been the same for you regardless of which industry you joined?

There are definitely mentors in other industries. I often find myself missing the hotel business. In the hotel business, you are judged by your willingness to work.

I'm glad I posted this commentary here. What I've seen has made me focus more on my novel so I can get out of this.

RE: I have no hope

Dysphoria - the generalized anxiety and depression one feels when your creative output is blocked, either from within or without.
At least, if it was Bipolar you can get medical compensation...You'll have to work on that manic a bit more. Detailing and blaming get pretty good marks too.

Believe me, I'm a frustrated actor but the dysphoria was at it's worst when I was between acting jobs. I didn't just have myself to think of. I had a wife and two small boys. Reconcilling the artistic and the prosaic isn't that important when you're hungry, children are sick and the rent is due. Besides, I didn't want to spend 90% of my working life as a server and call myself an actor. Surpising thing in life that wasn't bad, I built a career from a set of channel locks, side-cutters, needle nose pliers, linesman pliers a few screw drivers, scissors and knife.


What will you do?

When the rejection notices start coming from the publisher's as they often do for first-time contributors. (See Job Search - a Job search consists of 200 NO's and 1 Yes.)
When you hit a wall between belt gradings that confound any progress on the kata.
When it's 3.00 am, the screen is blank and the publisher needs another 10,000 words by 9:00 am tomorrow or they'll demand the advance back.

Is it?
a) Blame the reader.
b) Blame the sensei.
c) Blame the publisher.
d) All of the above.

So far, your're answers have all been d).








KE407122

"The phone was working fine before it knocked over my coffee."

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Tek-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Tek-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Tek-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Tek-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login

Close Box

Join Tek-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical computer professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Tek-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close