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"Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date
2

"Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

"Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

(OP)
So why do I hear it used that way so often?
Is it just because some speakers are afraid of simple English?
Or am I the one who is wrong?

Chris

Someday I'll know what I'm donig...damn!

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

You hear it that way becaue that is its secondary meaning: marked by characteristics of the present period, modern, current (Merriam-Webster), following modern ideas in style or design (Oxford Dictionaries), belonging to the present time (Longman), conforming to modern or current ideas in style, fashion, design, etc (Collins)

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

It's all about context.

Can you give an example of where contemporary would be used to describe something as "Up-To-Date"?

As for Modern, again, such a relative term. What did you mean by modern?

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

Quote:

What did you mean by modern?
Along this same lines, what do "they" mean by post-modern?

James P. Cottingham
I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

Contemporary just means "of the same time". When you talk of William Shakespeare's contemporaries, you refer to the people who were around when he was. If you describe something as simply "contemporary", it is implicitly referring to ourselves or our time, therefore something recent (or "modern"! smile ).

Annihilannic
tgmlify - code syntax highlighting for your tek-tips posts

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

>what do "they" mean by post-modern?

Ah, well that's really just short for postmodernism, i.e. it refers to a school of thought that postdates the modernist movement.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

(OP)
An example or two:
"Those drapes give this room such a contemporary look and feel"
"This new band put a contemporary twist on jive standards"

Chris

Someday I'll know what I'm donig...damn!

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

They sound fine to me!

Annihilannic
tgmlify - code syntax highlighting for your tek-tips posts

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

2
Those are perfectly legitimate uses of the word.

>Or am I the one who is wrong?

I should have said this in my first post: Afraid so.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

For the first example about the drapes, the feel can be from any tIme that is contemporary with the decor

For the second, contemporary adds nothIng to the sentence and can be eliminated

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

You seem to be trying to shoehorn a rather personal, limited definition of contemporary in here.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

@strongm if your last was directed at me. I disagree

Contemporary simply allocates a timeframe relationship between 2 or more people or things

Drapes can be contemporary with any decor where the style identifiable with the decor

The word new in the second example defines the timeframe so contemporary is redundant and adds nothing to the sentence

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

>Contemporary simply allocates a timeframe relationship between 2 or more people or things

No it doesn't. This is an example of exactly what I was talking about; you continue to only want your own personal definition. I have already provided numerous dictionary definitions that clearly demonstrate that this not the only definition.

>Drapes can be contemporary with any decor where the style identifiable with the decor

The drapes may also give an old-fashioed room a more modern and up-to-date look or feel specifically because they are NOT of the same period as the decor

>The word new in the second example defines the timeframe so contemporary is redundant and adds nothing to the sentence

So, let's just check: you are suggesting that a new band will always create a contemporary sound?

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

@Stromgm - I hesitate to suggest this, but I suspect that your bias is blinding you to what I am saying.

The temporal relationship does not need to be the same, true, but it can be and clues within the structure allow us to differentiate which might be meant.

Contemporary is a relative term and the relationship should be clear.

"Those drapes give this room such a contemporary look and feel" can be either. Choosing one or the other is up to the context. There is not enough context in this sentence alone to indicate which is which. This is all I have said.

"This new band put a contemporary twist on jive standards" vs "This new band put a twist on jive standards"

My version does not suggest that "(I am) suggesting that a new band will always create a contemporary sound". Frankly, I am very confused as to how you came about that conclusion which is why I am suggesting that you are bringing your own bias to bare. My version says exactly what the old says, as contemporary is redundant.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

>your bias

Bias? That I accept, as you do not, that 'contemporary' has a wider definition than "simply allocates a timeframe relationship between 2 or more people or things" to include, inter alia, current/modern/up-to-date.


>clues within the structure allow us to differentiate which might be meant

I agree.

>My version says exactly what the old says, as contemporary is redundant

No. Your version assumes that contemporary is the redundant, understood position for all properties ascribed to the band. And it is redundant for all properties because the band is new. My contention is that you cannot make that assumption. As a result, your version leaves the reader with no idea what sort of a twist the band has put on jive.

I'd accept that it could be redundant in a statement such as

"They are a new, contemporary band"

but even there the particular context may require its use. And yes, you are right, context is of course important.

"A new production of Hamlet in contemporary costume" or "Contemporary critics of Shakespreare" are both ambiguous and either need more context, or to be reworded, in order to make their meaning clear (although you'll no doubt try to argue that contemporary is redundant in the former statement, since it is a new production ...)

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

@strongm, I will accept that you make some valid points. Where you fail in your argument is by rewording my argument to suit your needs and then claiming that I have stated things That I have not. I will leave you now with the fact that I will consider your intent and reflect on that.

One question before I go:
Can you give Tme an example of a sentence that is contextually sound with the original whereby a "New Band" would not be considered contemporary?

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

(OP)
Whoa! As the late Michael Winner might have said "Calm down dear, it's only a friendly discussion!"

I posed the original question because it grates on me when I hear TV presenters describing something as having a "contemporary feel", or saying BS like "adding ketchup to the mince makes these burgers so contemporary". That usage just annoys me whenever I hear it, but I was quite prepared to be told that, yes, I am the one who is wrong. This was confirmed by strongm in his first post, and I thought the matter was closed by his 3rd: "...I should have said this in my first post: Afraid so".

The two examples I gave were just plucked from my mind to satisfy kwbmitel's request; "Can you give an example of where contemporary would be used to describe something as 'Up-To-Date'?" I wasn't suggesting that they were actual real world examples, or that they were (in)correct... just a couple of illustrations of the kind of thing that irritates me.

I now accept that I'm a bit hypercritical of this word, and that it does, indeed, have secondary (and probably tertiary wink) meanings I hadn't considered before.

Now please can we all shake hands and draw a line under this?
peace

Chris

Someday I'll know what I'm donig...damn!

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

@MeGustaXL

A few tips
Once a conversation is started It is over when people tire of it. It's sometimes quite interesting to see where things end up. Having your answer is good and all but other questions were raised. Enjoy the ride

Don't assume that people who disagree are hostile. Respect, first and foremost. I rarely disagree with Strongm as he is better at the basics by a long shot. This case was very specific and I had a competing viewpoint on the examples that I thought to share

I've declined to continue not because I think I'm wrong or because I think I'm right but because I can't think of a way to continue without simply repeating myself (usually that means I'm wrong btw, but I hold hope otherwise)

Finally, and I'm making an assumPtion here based On your user name, this is not reddit. The people here are scary smart(I don't rank yet). Argue at your peril, be willing to learn a thing or 2.

Enjoy and welcome to the forum

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

One other thing for everybody,

My typing has taken a serious downturn as most of the time I'm using a smartphone left handed (I'm a rightie)

I have a Karate injury - distal bicep tendon tear - for those more curious

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

As kwbMittel says, we (er, as a group, rather than solely kwbMittel and myself winky smile ) often have discussions in here that can sometimes become heated and fiercely argued. But we normally manage to keep it civil rather than hostile. And we still talk to each other afterwards smile

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

==> Contemporary simply allocates a timeframe relationship between 2 or more people or things
Contemporary brings two items into the same time period. With respect to that time period, unless a specific time period is identified, the time frame is the present.

With this sentence, as written:

Quote:

Those drapes give this room such a contemporary look and feel
It's pretty clear to me that the drapes are NOT of the same time period as the furniture. If the drapes were contemporary with the furniture, then the drapes would not have given the room a different look and feel from the one it already had. In other words, the drapes have changed the look and feel of the room. And since no specific time period is identified to apply to contemporary, one can naturally assume the present. I take the sentence to mean, "Those drapes give this room such a modern look and feel." (and that the furniture is not modern). I agree with strongm; that is a perfectly normal use of the word.

With respect to the second sentence,

Quote:

This new band put a contemporary twist on jive standards.
I again agree with strongm. This a good use of the word and contemporary is necessary as it does provide additional meaning to the sentence.

==> The word new in the second example defines the timeframe so contemporary is redundant and adds nothing to the sentence
The adjective 'new' defines the age of the band; however, it does not define the time frame of the music the band plays. Just because the band is new doesn't mean that their music is new. Please consider the following:
This new band puts a contemporary twist on classical music.
This new band puts a contemporary twist on ragtime.
This new band puts a contemporary twist on disco.
For our case, this new band put a contemporary twist on jive. In each of these examples, 'new' defines the age of the band, but 'contemporary' applies to the type and style of music being played. New and contemporary apply to two entirely different things.

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RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

==> I have a Karate injury - distal bicep tendon tear - for those more curious
Ouch. Hope that heals quickly.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

=> distal bicep tendon
Shouldn't that be distal biceps tendon ? wavey

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

@hjgoldstein

I know you are not criticising a persons typing skils who is appologising for same with good reason. Needless to say...

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

*Sigh* I don't care what anyone says. When I hear, contemporary, I think of the 1960's. That word was so overused back then. Avocado-Green kitchen appliances anyone? winky smile



James P. Cottingham
I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

(OP)
What is reddit? I know it as the comment made by a frog when offered s book to read, in a VERY old gag...

Chris

Someday I'll know what I'm donig...damn!

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

I couldn't find the tongue-in-cheek emoticon. No offence.

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

(OP)
@hjgoldstein: None taken smile I've just never heard "reddit" before, other than in that very old joke. Maybe it's something us Brits don't have over here.
I must be getting too old and cranky to allow these things to pass uncommented - see my previous whingeing about the use of "Leverage" as a verb flame

Chris

Someday I'll know what I'm donig...damn!

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

@MeGustaXL - sorry, my comment was aimed at kwbMitel and his sore arm. I too am from the more ancient side of the pond.

@kwbMitel - wasn't having a go, honest!

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

@MeGustaXL - I'm taking it on faith that you are not trolling me
http://webtrends.about.com/od/reddit/a/Me-Gusta-Me...

@hjgoldstein - no offence, I smiled, my response was open ended on purpose. people fill in the most remarkable thinf to "Needless to say..." I've sorta been playing with it lately (trolling if you will)

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

So, if I am understanding correctly...

We just replaced our lighting in the living room; I wanted lights that looked like the old-style gas lamps, because of the age of the home (built in the late 1920's), and felt that would best fit the time period and decor/style of the home.

So, in that context, I put in contemporary lighting?

Just my 2ยข

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg http://parallel.tzo.com

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

==> So, in that context, I put in contemporary lighting?
Only if you explicitly state that the time period being referenced is the age of the home. If you don't specify the specific time period, then the present would be the default. You did not put in contemporary lighting; you put in lighting contemporaneous to the age of the home.


--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

>contemporaneous

smile I was going to mention that word much earlier in the thread, but for reasons too tedious to get into here, decided against it.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

re:contemporaneous

Was Sir Francis Bacon a contemporary of William Shakespeare or was he contemporaneous with him?

Is the lighting contemporary with the look of the home or is it contemporaneous with it?

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

(OP)
@kwbMitel - I'm taking it on faith that you are not trolling me
Not at all - but I like the drawing!

No, I chose that tag a long time back because (a) I like Excel, and (b) I was learning Spanish for my holidays in Magaluf, hence "Me Gusta Excel" [boom, tish]

Chris

Someday I'll know what I'm donig...damn!

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

==> Was Sir Francis Bacon a contemporary of William Shakespeare or was he contemporaneous with him?
Both.
==> Is the lighting contemporary with the look of the home or is it contemporaneous with it?
Both.

The thing you must be careful about is that if you wish to use contemporary, or contemporaneous with any time period other than the present, you must identify the specific time period.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886: How can I maximize my chances of getting an answer?
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

RE: "Contemporary" does not mean modern or up-to-date

Quote (2ffat)

Avocado-Green kitchen appliances anyone?

How about putty-colored bathroom fixtures? Blecch. We "Bath-Fittered" the tub; now I have to whack the sink.

-----------
With business clients like mine, you'd be better off herding cats.

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