Tell us what you have been using and why you have excluded those three providers.  We can't understand your thought process if we don't know why you have excluded some products.

Norton we used many years ago (Corporate Edition) , but their notification to keep the software up-to-date never happened, we paid for maintenance , yet never received the upgrade disks or notifications.

I'd ring for support , only to be told they wouldn't support us becuase we are on an old version , yet we paid for maintenenace to keep us up-to-date, on top of that I have rung Symantec , via the paid supprort line and been put on hold for over an hour!

Unaceptable levels of service means we will not use them again.

Plus NEVER put norton on your PC, more hasle than it's worth, I get more problem calls from people with Norton that any other security program, and once it's on, getting it off is near imposible!

AVG crashed our webserver, we used to use them, then the auto upgrade from v8.5 to v9 stopped our entire company working, V9 has firewall, and even though the server edition doesn't (well isn't supose to), clearly they ballsed up, because somethng stop the web server running CGI programs, as soon as we took AVG off, it worked again.

As support refused to accept that it was AVG causing the problem and that obviously something to do with the firewall was in the webserver version, we cannot use A/V from providers that refuse to acknowledge problems or provide any support to resolve them.

They took our cvompany down for 3 days while we banged our heads trying to work out why the web server stopped woring and what caused it, and then to have AVG lie about it being their software, never again!

so we have been with Sophos for many years and up until now, all had been fine, but they are retiring v3.1 of ECM and the related v7 of endpoint security, only the upgrade path has been a joke, none of the MSI installs work or upgrade , they have failed everytime, support is non-exisitent and they cannot handle the amount of calls they have had because of this abismal upgrade release that doesn't work, we have been without working or upgraded AV for a month now, in a commercial environment, this it totaly unacceptable and so we are sacking Sophos, they can no longer be trusted to supply a working solution or support for it!

This is why those 3 providers are being excluded.

does this help?




 

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I'm going to make a comment here and I don't want you to take it TOTALLY the wrong way.

Could it possibly be that members of your tech team are incompetent?  I mean, both experiences/instances of trouble with Norton and AVG don't sound "normal" to me.  In other words, properly configured, properly administered workstations and servers would not have experienced these issues.

And, I'm not on your side regarding NOT being supported when you're running old versions of software.  That's what companies do.  "What version are you running?  Ok, well you need to upgrade".  I've always been able to get Norton upgrades when a company was entitled to them.

So, not trying to change the focus of this thread, but it seems you have ruled out products based on bad experiences that could have been avoided if things were "right" on your side of the implementation.

Conclusion:  If you pick BRAND X anti-virus next and you don't configure, support, and update it properly, you are doomed to repeat these issues.

Well as there isn't a Tech team and the IT department is just me, then either i'm incompetent, or the answer is NO!

I just gave a you a genuine run down of my personal experience.

AVG9 killed webservers, FACT!

Quote:

I'm not on your side regarding NOT being supported when you're running old versions of software.

You're missing the point, we should have been on the latest versions as that's what we paid for! Not keeping me informed or sending me upgrade disks anymore is unnaceptable, If I'd known there was an upgrade, like we had paid to be informed about and supplied, I would have installed it!
Running an MSI and it falling over when ALL SP's have been applied to SQL and other parts of the OS, is not misconfiguting or not upgrading, it's becuase the upgrade DOESN'T WORK.

I even have an email from Sophos acknowledging the overwhelming flood of suport calls, this wouldn't happen if their software worked!

We also wouldn't have been approached by our reseller/support company offering to upgrade their clients for £150 if it was straight forward and didn't have a load of problems, in fact they have even got Sophos to retract a statement they made to me via email claiming that they wouldn't allow resellers to charge clients to upgrade the latest Sophos.

I also have an email from Sophos confirming the acceptance of my refund request and acknowledglement from the reseller that I have due cause to make this request!

Conclusion:

I made a simple request for A/V recommendation, due to genuine issues and unacceptable service and poor quality software, you do not have to beleive me!

If you beleive there is nothing wrong with these providers and have had good experiences, lucky you, I wish you all the best with them, but it doesn't help my current situation!












 

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Two anti-virus applications, for Windows systems, that I have been pleased with are Avira and Avast.  I haven't used the corporate editions of them so I can't speak to whether or not they would have the features you are looking for.  However, based upon my experience, I would recommend them as products to look into.
 

I have had a few on other threads mention Avira, my only concern with Avast is they don't seem to keep up with latest OSes.

When windows 7 first came out I couldn't use Avast anymore and had no choice but to use AVG as recommended by MS, I used AVAST over AVG everytime up until then!

I know i'm talking free home use here, but it does worry me , should a member of staff get a new PC/Laptop with a new OS and then we can't put our A/V on it!

I've got our reseller quoting for ESET & McAfee, I'll look into Avira and might get them to add that to the quote.

Avira like ESET have an ever growing name in the industry, BUT, so did Kaspersky, but their 2010 version crashed everyones machine when they upgraded (i got loads of calls from our members all with the same problem!), so again, looks like they are all as bad as each other when their new versions comes out!

One IT company who is quoting for our new server upgrade said McAfee released a change which BSOD'ed everones PC a while back, so I have concerns over using McAfee!


 

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Looks like Avira is out, no UK sales or support

Doesn't look like Avast offers UK support either, when I rung support, their call center tried to claim that Avast was always compatible with Windows 7, when it most certainly was not!

The call center couldn't answer all my questions so gave me another number to ring, but it's just constantly engaged!

Finding decent A/V these days with english speaking support is very difficult indeed!

 

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You're mad, but I'm not trying to make you mad.

What I was trying to tell you is YES to the following:
"If you beleive there is nothing wrong with these providers and have had good experiences, lucky you, I wish you all the best with them, but it doesn't help my current situation!"

AND

Problems you have experienced may be related to your environment or implementation, therefore you may experience issues with another product for the same reason.

Is any product perfect - NO.  Am I suggesting that AVG or Norton are fantastic, trouble free products - NO.  I am saying that it's odd that you've had bad experiences with two "name brand" products.

When you ask a question, be prepared for all kinds of answers.  Somebody else out there should analyze the posters' complaints and see if my comments are reasonable.

Your whole comment about not being notified by Norton about updates doesn't really make sense.  A) You need to actively search for updates and then B) you download them as opposed to having them sent to you.  I don't know of any company that sends media via mail.  They may notify you via email if a relevant update becomes available, but I would always take the proactive approach of looking for updates on a regular basis and specifically looking for patches/updates if you are experiencing a particular problem.

McAfee Total Security with ePO would be a good option. Central deployment of clients and updates and monitoring.

Also you might take a look at Panda security. Good product; alas a bit on the more expensive side.

As always, your budget will be of importance.

"We had to turn off that service to comply with the CDA Bill."
- The Bastard Operator From Hell

Quote:

A) You need to actively search for updates and then B) you download them as opposed to having them sent to you.

That's not how it worked 10 years ago! That's when I stopped using Norton! ,  I dont' expect to have a phone bill for the PAID support line for being on hold for over an hour either.

They stopped sending CD's didn't tell anyone , didn't send emails to prompt you to upgrade, and I don't pay for support and free upgrades for them to expect me to go hunting, I have better things to do with my time.

Actually the fact Symantec bought Backup Exec, is a reason we don't use it and use Brightstore arcserve backup instead, not to mention Backup Exec v10 didn't work with SBS 2003, even though they claimed it did on the box ! (but let's not get side tracked)

I had used Norton since early 90's and always swore by them, until the bad experience 10 years ago, and so NEVER AGAIN.

I'm sorry, but you clearly haven't been using AV or working with computer for as long as I have to make claims that they never used to send updates on CD, I used to get updates on 3 1/2 inch floppies!

I accept things have changed, but you asked me why I ruled those providers out, I didn't expect to get into an argument about it with someone that hasn't had 20+ years of Norton AV experience as I have!

If I hadn't had to support member after member all with Norton 360 problems over the last 10 years since I ditched them myself, I might have considered them again, but in my experience AOL & Norton are the two companines you should NEVER use, period!

But I accept YMMV





 

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We use F-Secure.  It has been OK.  I have never called support.
I guess you are in the UK and F-Secure is Finnish.

Price is pretty reasonable.  They don't have special pricing for servers, just another install license.  I guess they also have "free" AV for MS Exchange, but I have not used it.

The central management seems a little doggy, but I only have 100 seats so is not a huge problem for me.

As far as upgrades go, just down load version you want from their web site.  You need a license key to install, but don't have to jump through any hoops to get the download.  I get an e-mail when a new version is released.  I don't get any notification on patches.  F-secure doesn't have a very big product mix so the website is pretty easy to navigate. Nothing like CA or Symantec, where they have 100's of products, mostly from other companies they have bought.

The latest version is version 9.  It seems to be pretty good on performance.  The previous version 8 was kind of a dog and I was considering changing to someone else until 9 came out.

They recently won some kind of award, if that does anything for you. :)

http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00002091.html



 

Well they don't have UK support per sae, though there is a UK number to ring.

I spoke with someone from Kuala Lumpur who had fantastic English, so as long as that's typical, I have no problem with that.

Though they seemed to indicate that if a new product is released, you have to re-purchase licencing for the new product?

They have protection for windows servers/ exchange and either client or workstation protection.

Client protection includes application control but also comes with firewall , but they said you can turn it off and control this from the central distribution application when you push out the client protection.

I'll get onto my reseller and see how pricing fairs and see if they have any comments regarding F-Secure.

Though my re3seller has already told me they only recommend the providers I don't want to use

  

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Quote:

Though they seemed to indicate that if a new product is released, you have to re-purchase licencing for the new product?

I pay an annual license fee for av updates.  This includes using the latest version of software.

In the US I do my license upgrades through insight.com.  I see they also have a UK website. http://uk.insight.com/


 

I've used insight, they are pretty good, but went through a little up heaval a while back and I got passed from account manager to account manager and so gave up using them as a dedicated reseller, but still do the odd online shopping with them, there is also Dabs, Novatech and eBuyer, all very similar.

I've had a great phone call with Panda and am looking forward to receiving their solution proposal and pricing!

I have my reseller looking into F-Secure, ESET and Panda, I've decided to steer clear of McAfee after my experience with their customer services and support call centre's, unfortunately they don't speak English!

 

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Since you already use Computer Associates' BrightStor ARCServe have you looked into Computer Associates' anti-virus solutions?  CA has UK support and reseller phone numbers listed on their web site.

We use CA's anti-virus and have never had to initiate a support call.  The documentation is good and easy to understand and you can centrally manage the system.  You can use enforced policies that will work even if you have laptops that are out of the office and not connected to your network.

Hope this helps.

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Quote:

CA has UK support and reseller phone numbers listed on their web site

No they don't, you get put through to Bangalore India, and half of them can't speak English properly or understand what your saying.

It drives me nuts when ever I need support for their software, because like Sophos, the upgrades raley go smoothly.

I now have a specific support personnel that I only deal with as she is the only one I have found that can speak good enough English for me to understand and knows what she is doing!

It's a shame as they have 'follow the sun' support, and I used to get put through to people all round the world, Norway, USA, Austrailia, CA support used to be absolutely amazing, until they moved what appears to be UK support (or maybe it's just because of the timezone) to Bangalore, it's been nothing but a headache ever since!

For that reason I haven't even considered CA Anti-Virus.

I'm looking forward to my online conference demo with the people from Panda tomorrow, they are going to guide me though their 'Cloud' solution and give me a free demo. I'll let you know how I get on.


 

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Quote:

...because like Sophos, the upgrades raley go smoothly.

Well, all I can say is that I've never had a problem with upgrades for either CA's anti-virus solution or for ArcServe.  I find their documentation very easy to follow.  As I stated, I've never had to initiate a support call so I don't know where my call would be routed to.  I'm in Canada.

I was only suggesting it because you were already using ArcServe.

Hope this helps.

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Sorry for the flame, but if one "user" has a problem with nearly every "vendor/product" and their support, the majority of the mis-match is not all of the vendors . . .

FWIW - i believe it is not "good" that you are in this by yourself in your organization. If nothing else, the risk to the organization should not be acceptable.

Also, i too am not always thrilled with how different vendors implement their products and provide support - but as my clients have to use those products and that support, i learn. . .

 

Right, so you beleive that CA didn't drop the ball and release a version of Arcserve that didn't work properly on SBS 2003?

You live in a fantasy world, I even helped support fix the problem, by being their guniee pig and helping them resolve the issue, I could produce an email audit trail to prove this if I so desired!

Not to mention that the document level / brick lever agent corrupted public folder calendars and contact lists and when restored brought them back as email items instead of contacts / calendars.

Hmm, I don't think it is my company that is at risk, but yours if you were not even aware of or found these serious bugs and problems in the CA software at the time they occured

What about the tape log file that has default settings that don't purge or are not set to a reasonable size limit and so grew to more than 1GB in size for a text file (lucky I noticed!), perhaps you better go check!

OK the upgrade went smoothly this time from V12.5 to v15 (except for the tape log issue!) And it still required SQL Express 2008 to be installed.

Also are you also trying to tell me when you ring support from the UK you are not put though to Bangalore and find it difficult to hold a conversation?

Yeah I guess i'm making it all up and i'm just an idiot that doesn't know what I'm doing!

- hey I don't mind, I got tougher skin than that

Anyway I know i'm an idiot , I have a certificate to prove it it's called Dyspraxia, your not discriminator against disabled people are you

But I didn't come here to have to justify myself, I know the facts, I've been doing this for long enough!

I asked for AV recommendations, guess some prefer to shoot people down for there choices, experiences and opinions

Quote:

I was only suggesting it because you were already using ArcServe.

and it's appreciated, but for the reasons I mentioned I won't use them for A/V, but I still valued your input!
I would ask though :- have you been using CA Brightstor Arcserve Backup since 2003 v10 on Small Business Server 2003?
 
Anyways, I actualy came back to give feedback since having had my Panda Security demo / trial and let you know how impressive it was.

It runs as SaaS, so no clunkly installation on the server or upgrades that don't work, or requirments for SQL be it MSDE/Express or anything else.

If the stats are correct they are right up there as one of the top AV providers, though any statistic should be take with a pinch of salt right!

On a side note another reason to steer well clear of Sophos, is they have just refused to refund the outstanding years licences fees.

Not only does their software not work, their support is abismal and their cutomer service, but they are also thieves.

This company is most certainly not reputable and whoa betide any of you that use them and do end up with a problem wanting a refund!

Sophos are a disgrace!

I got my AVG pro-rata refund when it crashed our server, and Panda assured me they would never behave in this manner should the unlikely case be they did not deliver the product and service for which we had paid.

But talk is cheap when sales people are after your money, it's another kettle of fish when you want it back!









 

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LOL!
Nothing's better than a good rant at due time!

Concerning PANDA and its ranking:
It is usually ranking in the McAfee realm.
Although it is supposed to be rather good, that CLOUD solution is said to be slightly on the slow side for scanning systems.

On the other hand: when it comes to Network security, it cannot possible be as slow as Symantec (God forbid).

I think you'll be quite happy with Panda. When I set up our environment three years ago, I only preferred McAfee because I knew it and trusted it and I didn't want to even spend slightly more on a product I didn't know.

That said, sometimes side effects caused by McAfee, especially that last faulty update of theirs made me doubt whether my choice was the wisest!
(see thread760-1600840: Biiiig problem: new W32/Blaster? Same symptoms)

Anyway, remember: there ain't no such thing as a free lunch, and there ain't know such thing as a flawless software...

"We had to turn off that service to comply with the CDA Bill."
- The Bastard Operator From Hell

, yup, been a very stressful day!

Attached is a data sheet they sent me , though how 'massaged'  the figures are is anyones guess, well you tell me!

on a side note, as Sophos are refusing to refund, we are stuck with them for the rest of our current licence.

Prior to all this , our resller contacted us offering to perform the upgrade for £150.00 , something they are offering all their clients, as they are fully aware of the issues surrounding the latest Sophos upgrade versions.

Since the fiasco with Sophos support and customer service , they have waived the £150.00 fee and will be finishing the upgrade for nothing instead of Sophos, now that is what I call customer service.

I have had many account managers with many resellers, and i can say hand on heart, my current reseller is second to none, Sophos and many other IT companies could learn alot from them.

So if you are in the UK and you want to be put in touch with an IT company that really cares about their customers and offers a service above and beyond anyone else out there, I'm more than happy to put you in touch!

I have never experienced service from a reseller like it where they bend over backwards to help even when it isn't their problem or fault and they aren't earning a penny from it.


 

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• http://www.homeloanpartnership.com/AV-Comparatives.pdf

Quote (1DMF):

...have you been using CA Brightstor Arcserve Backup since 2003 v10 on Small Business Server 2003?

No, I've been using it and CA's anti-virus on Server 2003, Server 2003 R2, and Server 2008 R2 with Exchange 2003 and Exchange 2008.  

I've been using it without problems for many years and have done several restores.  I never use default settings because they're usually not what I want for my environment.

Hope this helps.

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I think the problem lies with SBS!

It has been a nightmare for many years as it was a new OS and concept (everything on one box), which many software companies just hadn't got to grips with at the time of launch.

Hey it's the same for any new OS, just look at 3.11->95->98->2000->XP->Vista->7.

Nothing rarely went smoothly between each new release!

SBS compatability has certainly got better the last few years and as SBS has become a standard OS especially with the release of 2008, I'm hoping when we migrate, it won't be as painfull as when we first implemented SBS2003!

The only reason we used Arcserve was at the time Veritas (Backup Exec) 10 didn't work, in the end we sent it back and got CA Arcserve instead, ok that had many teething troubles as I mentioned, but back then they had awesome support so working with the to resolve the issues wasn't a problem, now they are in Bangalore, it's made it very difficult to resolve any issues or even get basic assistance with configuration settings.

Hey ho, as Jean-Luc pointed out

Quote:

... there ain't know such thing as a flawless software...

I know that, there's the stuff I write for a start

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just thought i'd update this thread due to the fiasco that immerged after our reseller got their IT support guys to 'fix' the Sophos problems.

I use the word 'fix' with total sarcasm!

While i was in london at the Insight technology event @ billingsgate, these so called experts who have upgraded Sophos 2-300 times, dialed into our server to upgrade Sophos from ECM 4 with SQL 2005 express -> ECM 4.5 with SQL 2008 express.

Only instead of fixing anything, they trashed our sever, corrupter our SQL 2000 production install and the entire company was taken offline for 4 days, we were not back up and running until the following tuesday!

They totally corrupted Sophos, so it hasn't worked for weekes now and they also trashed our CA Arcserve backup SQL 2008 instance, so i then had to spend two days with CA support to fix the darn backup software.

They then had the gual to try and tell my MD it was me who broke everything, when I wasn't even there as I was in London!

The most unbeleivable, jaw dropping incompetence I have ever experienced.

So don't any one dare tell me there is nothing wrong with Sophos and perhaps it was my lack of skills that was the problem, I never trashed our server upgrading, and I had successfully upgraded from ECM3.1 -> ECM 4.0 which was working fine.

It took a real expert support company with 100's of Sophos upgrade experience to really cock things up.

Sophos sucks and no amount of experience upgrading will change that fact, never again!


 

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Congratulations - any possible incompetence on your side of things (not being sarcastic) has been totally overshadowed by a greater incompetence that raises the bar.  Now what you gonna do?

Hope Sophos doesn't read your post and sue you.  You should add:  "It is my opinion....."

People have been sued for facebook/twitter comments where they slam Product X or Company Y.  No kidding.

Or even this:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/landlord-sues-tenant-after-tweet-about-moldy-apartment.ars

Yeah, talk about ironic!

Hey, you can only sue for slander or saying something that isn't true.

I have only expressed a real world experience, which can be backed up by evidence, and of course I can only speak for myself, but the facts are the facts.

I wish I hadn't been put in this situation in the first place and could still sing Sophos' praises, which i had always done up until this fiasco.

Unfortunately, this experience and subsequent corruption of our company's system have forced me into the situation of having no choice but to get rid of Sophos.

we cannot afford to be without AV protection and have downed systems like this again.

I'll let you now how I get on with Panda!





 

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So, were the folks who "fixed" the issues working directly for Sophos, or were they some external support agency of sorts?  If they weren't directly controlled by Sophos, then I'd suggest you do need to be more careful with slamming the product.  Even if they worked for Sophos, the issue is: was it the product, or the individual(s) involved in the specific instance?

That'd be like saying some large bank is absolutely horrible, b/c one moron working there caused you to lose $100k.  Of course, that's all made up.  I've never seen that money in one place, except for showing how much I owed on my mortgage.
 

I had already had a mare with Sophos support , who after a month still hadn't helped us upgrade, this was all before this external company screwed things up even more.

But point taken, I don't want anyone thinking this corruption was done by Sophos, they were a totally separate IT company!

The missus has just managed to upgrade here Sophos across 5 servers and 50+ workstations in two separate co-locations, it was a headache and took a long time.

She helped me with mine, before trying her upgrade, so was fully aware of the pitfalls and problems I had experienced, she confirmed in writing, that i had sucessfully upgraded Sophos to ECM4 with SQL 2005 express, but neither of us could get ECM 4.5 with SQL 2008 express to work.

just as well i had got her to come in and give us a hand, i had a wittness to prove it was this 3rd party It company that screwed things up and not me!

The only difference between her environment and mine is we have SBS & SQL, they don't, so perhaps it's more SBS specific than Sophos per sae.

either way, it's now about to be totally removed and a new era of Panda security will commence.

But there had to be something fundamentally wrong for me and the missus not being able to get it to work, Sophos support after a month not being able to get it to work and then for this external IT company to totally trash Sophos and the server.

I think it's safe to say, a common denominator was found!





 

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"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

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