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Anyone else having trouble finding work?
4

Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Anyone else having trouble finding work?

(OP)
Hey, I used to find work in LA as an MS-Access programmer with fair ease.  Now it seems there are no contracts to be found anywhere.  I've had a few calls with no real results.

Anyone else?  Any advice?  Any leads?

Thanks

-Nima

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

In my personal experience, MS Access just isn't in high demand, and the demand is decreasing.

I was fortunate enough to recently find employment dealing with higher demand technologies (up here in the Sacramento region).
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I'd have to agree, demand for MS Access is becoming less and less.

I've been seeing less and less use of MS Access in companies as the SOX and SAS70 regulations have been kicking in everything has been moving into larger database platforms like MS SQL, MySQL, Oracle, etc.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
MCTS (SQL 2005 / Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services 3.0: Configuration / Microsoft Office SharePoint Server 2007: Configuration)
MCITP Database Administrator (SQL 2005) / Database Developer (SQL 2005)

My Blog

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

While I still see the occasional request for Access developers, they are far and few between. Most of them are contract jobs for migrating it to newer technologies. I would recommend brushing up on your VB6 and SQL. It's short jump from VBA and can be a good stepping stone. Once you get fairly comfortable there start on .Net. Larger learning curve with .Net, but well worth the invested time.

"If I were to wake up with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn't be more surprised than I am right now."

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Remember that mysql is free. You can learn it home. They don't care that you have database experience. Employers in IT do not understand the concept of transferable skills. You're going to have put what they want on your resume, whether you actually have the skill or not.
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

You're going to have put what they want on your resume, whether you actually have the skill or not.
I strongly disagree with this.  Putting down a skill you don't have, while it may get you a job you don't deserve, is a horrible idea.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I would concur with KornGeek...a lot of employers these days conduct separate technical interviews which can really test your knowledge of a specific technology.  If you put on your resume that you know something that you really don't know, I'm sure that would be caught by the technical interview.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

As a MS Access programmer, you most likely have good knowledge concerning database architecture and/or theory. I see no reason why you couldn't add this to your list of skills on your resume.

Employers are looking for what you have right now and what skills you can grow into.  Emphasize your strengths.

Good luck!

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

You're going to have put what they want on your resume, whether you actually have the skill or not.

Most companies that I have dealt with in the past 3-5 years have done technical interviews.  Either you interview with the manager who has technical skills, or you interview with one or more members of the team and they grill you with technical questions.  I have seen companies where the entire 12+ person team interviews you en banc.  I myself do a lot of technical interviews for my employer.  The one thing that I can say for sure is that if you put technical skills/experience on your resume that you don't have you've got about 95% chance of being caught in the interview.

If you're a really, really good BS artist and you're lucky then you might slip through.  But if you somehow do get the job you're not going to have a clue what you're doing, and your employer and co-workers will know it, after which you will usually end up unemployed again.  Just keep in mind that you are usually competing for a job with several other people, and while lying on your resume may get you the interview it's not going to help you compete against other people who DO have those skills.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator  

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Demand for MS-Access is decreasing.
Time to learn another database, such as MS SqlServer (Express or Developer)

Chip H.
 

____________________________________________________________________
www.chipholland.com

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Never lie about your technical skills but on the other hand
the technical questions you are asked at interview, are not always relevant to your required knowledge. I interviewed for a web designer's job but failed to get it as I didn't know how to print the fraction symbol for a 'third' in MS Access. I found this out later when I worked with the interviewer who asked the question, on a community project. Turns out he knew nothing about web design but was an 'expert' with fractions in MS Access.

Keith
www.studiosoft.co.uk

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I am.
   I got my two year degree in 1993, have been setting up and supporting retail and restaurant software packages since. Pretty good at it. Went back to school at night and now have a BSIT degree. All my training and schools have been on proprietary/industry specific software.
  Researched and got advice from here and other places and chose college over MCSE certs and stuff like that. Now I have graduated, looking for the bigger-better deal and feeling piegoned-holed.
  Some of the job ads list just such a multiude of qualifications, that after reading them I feel if I met those criteria I wouldn't be looking for a job, people like them would be finding and fighting over me.  

Bo  

Remember,
If the women don't find you handsome,
they should at least find you handy.
 (Red Green) www.redgreen.com
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?


Some of the job ads list just such a multiude of qualifications, that after reading them I feel if I met those criteria...

But do you meet at least 30-40% of the criteria? Do you apply for the jobs then? You should. They list all of the criteria they can imagine. Especially when the requirements are written not by a hiring manager, but by a HR or some such person. Often that list means that they want one or the other, or that they would be satisfied if at least some of the criteria are fulfilled. If you apply, you might be surprized.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I'm with Stella740pl. Nobody has all the qualifications for most jobs advertised in IT. I remember one job I applied for, they had a whole list of alphabet soup requirements (ASP, SQL, etc) and wanted a Masters in IT as well. I didn't have everything but had a few of them and I got the the interview and found they wanted to pay around $25,000 per year. No way they got anyone with even minimal skills let alone a Masters for that kind of salary. Those skill lists are just wish lists and bear little relationship to the reality of what they want. If you have good solid skills in any of the major ones (you can make a guess on what is major based on the job description) then go ahead and apply.

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Absolutely, Stella. My wife is in HR. She says the only items on the job you have to be concerned with are the Required items. Those are the skills that have been defined as absolute to perform the job and HR will screen out those that do not meet the minimums before sending them on to the IT manager for review(There is some flex in this with smaller companies and "Mom and Pop Shops"). The "Additional Skills" are things that can be trained and are willing to train in. Obviously they will typically take the candidate that has the most amount of requested skills, but not always.

Put it simply, Apply for anything you come relatively close to. As long as you think you could do the job if hired. What's the worst thing they could do, not call back?

"If I were to wake up with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn't be more surprised than I am right now."

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?


As long as you think you could do the job if hired.

And then sometimes you don't always completely know what the job is about until you get the interview and talk to the hiring manager, not just read the HR-posted ad. I've seen it. And even what HR posts as "Required skills" are not always absolutely required. It could be that they ask for, say, all the database systems they could think of, when, in fact, hiring manager mentioned all of them just to say that they need at least one of them, any one, not all.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Oh man, trying to interpret Help Wanted ads -- that's a magical science sometimes...

monkey Edward monkey

"Cut a hole in the door.  Hang a flap.  Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

That is true, too, Stella. However, I was meaning for example: VB programmers applying for a Java position that has some VB scripting. Obviously you can do the scripting, but can you do the Java? If not, then don't apply. Use common sense.

"If I were to wake up with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn't be more surprised than I am right now."

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?


We recently wanted a person who would be familiar with database design and programming, knew Visual FoxPro, preferably had some knowlege of SQL server and some VBA to write an occasional Excel macro.

We hired a person who is familiar with database design and programming, doesn't know Visual FoxPro, but knows reasonably well SQL server and Visual Basic. He is now successfully learning Visual FoxPro while working on the project; and knowing VB, he doesn't really need to learn VBA.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?


Your most important skill when looking for a job and starting out on a job is simply knowing how to play the game. It doesn't ever matter if you can do the work. If you know how to scratch your supervisor's back, you will go as far as you want. Schmoozing, manipulating, and sucking up beat talent, hard work, and passion most of the time.

Many people don't like admitting this. However, you have to judge them by what they actually do, not by what they say.
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

shoalcreek,

Wow, what caused you to become so jaded?  Yes, there are circumstances where people get ahead based off manipulation, but in my personal experience, they don't stay ahead for long without some hard work, talent, and/or passion.
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

shoalcreek,

With that attitude, you may indeed have some short-term gains, but if you keep that up, the first wave of layoffs will find you on the other side of the door. Nobody likes a manipulator, except other manipulators, and even they will turn on you eventually.

Nullum gratuitum prandium.
--Sleipinir214

 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

While it's true that there are some aspects of career development that are game-like (or at least where a solid knowledge of game theory would be helpful, like in salary negotiations), I think it's very silly to look at your livelihood as a game.  Games are played for entertainment and mental exercise.  Most of us work so that we can support ourselves or our families.  The stakes are much, much higher.

While it's true that "playing games" and trying to manipulate people might give you some short term success, it's not a winning strategy long term.  Not only does it tend to alienate people (both your peers and those who have workplace authority over you), but it also reduces your value to the organization.  If you spend your time "playing the game," you are not providing/creating value for the company, and that's the equivalent of painting a giant bullseye on your back.

Jaded was exactly the word that I was thinking.  Maybe I'm naive and stupid, but I still believe that being a hard worker and developing your professional and technical skills will get you far in your career.  Maybe I'm just an anomaly, but it's worked well for me.  And my wife.  And pretty much all of our friends and immediate family.
 

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator  

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

With that attitude, you may indeed have some short-term gains, but if you keep that up, the first wave of layoffs will find you on the other side of the door. Nobody likes a manipulator, except other manipulators, and even they will turn on you eventually.

The best manipulators are never discovered. If people know that you are a manipulator, you are already doing it wrong. Nobody ever turns on the most successful manipulators.

 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote (shoalcreek):

Nobody ever turns on the most successful manipulators.

Except for other manipulators, that is.

You are giving manipulators too much credit. I can spot one a mile away. And, so can most good managers.
 

Nullum gratuitum prandium.
--Sleipinir214

 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

Schmoozing, manipulating, and sucking up beat talent, hard work, and passion most of the time.

These are the kinds of people that get the least amount praise in my book. I've managed many that were like the above stated and they all stayed at the bottom. I give more credit to those that admit to mistakes and try to correct them than those that hide their mistakes and blame them on other people. They cause most issues within the department. Respect is earned, not given. You will not get any True respect from those around you (or above you) if you have your lips attached to their back-sides.

"If I were to wake up with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn't be more surprised than I am right now."

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

The best manipulators are never discovered.
Then how do you know that's how they're getting ahead?

Logic Error: Line 73
Please reboot logic server.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

Then how do you know that's how they're getting ahead?
Logic Error: Line 73
Please reboot logic server.

Okay, you got me.

But do you honestly think that people like George Bush and Dick Cheney will ever serve any jail time for their manipulative crimes? Did Josef Stalin serve any time for all his murders? Did Mao Tse-tung ever get punished?

Carly got a well-deserved firing from HP and got a nice severance package. She's not the only one.
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

But do you honestly think that people like George Bush and Dick Cheney will ever serve any jail time for their manipulative crimes?

Ah, now I see. You think you can get away with manipulation because of your perception that others have done so.

While I'm sure that some have done so, that does not make it right. Besides, have you forgotten about WorldCom Global Crossing, and Enron (just to name a few)? People are in Federal prison now who used to be in corner offices..

Nullum gratuitum prandium.
--Sleipinir214

 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Another logic error.

As it has been stated in somebody's signature:
"The plural of anecdote is not data."

Just because something has happened does not mean that such a result is common, likely, or probable.  (Notice all the weight loss ads that say "Results not typical".)  It is a fallacy to say "These people succeeded through manipulation, thus manipulation succeeds and hardwork fails."

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

The jails are full of "manipulators", the only manipulators that get away are the ones with a lot of money and power, they can buy themselves out of any trouble:
Stalin, Bush, Mao Tse Tung, Dick Cheney and other big calibers.
Shoalcreek, if you start doing like Jozef Stalin I am sure that you will be locked up in an asylum.  

Steven
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I've been looking for 3 years.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?


3 years?
Looking for a job at all or looking for a better/different job?
Are you currently working? What are you doing now and what do you try to find?
Do you have trouble getting interviews or do you have trouble selling yourself at the interviews?
How exactly are you looking for a job?
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

Do you have trouble getting interviews or do you have trouble selling yourself at the interviews?
Mildly off topic, but does anybody else have a strong dislike for the phrase "selling yourself" in terms of job hunting?  To me, it sounds a bit too much like standing on the street corner in a short skirt and thigh-high leather boots.  (And I really don't have the legs to pull of that look.)

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?


Substitute it with any term of your liking, but basically, that's what you are doing. You will prove that you can do the job later - if/when you already got it.

I guess, you don't have a problem with the rest of the questions? Because to me, they seem like valid "troubleshooting" questions to someone looking for a job for 3 years.

 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Stella,

I actually thought all of the questions were valid, and I can understand the use of that term, but considering some of its other uses, it feels a bit awkward.

I personally was without stable employment for most of 2 years.  During that time, I worked temp jobs and had one job for about 6 months (it was a mutually very bad fit), but I was continually searching for stability.  I had trouble getting interviews, and when I did get them, I was often the "2nd choice" where they liked me but found somebody a little more qualified.

I tried placement companies, online job hunting, classifieds, etc.  Unfortunately, I have minimal professional contacts in this area, and that seems to be the best route.  I eventually got a job through a temp agency, and will be transitioning to a permanent employee soon.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

KornGeek where are you located and what is your skill set? After all this a form of proffesional networking happens here, and maybe one of us knows your area.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
                           - Daffy Duck

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

(OP)
OK, thanks for all the feed back folks.  So far I've learned here...

George Bush and Dick Cheney know how to code.  I should wear a mini skirt for a job interview (I wonder if employers will like my hairy legs).  And ousoonerjoe can sleep through his head being sown to the carpet.

Yeah, I've had two interviews since.  Not to sound prejudice but a number of calls were from Indian recruiters who have 2-3 people call me (also Indian).  Have thick accents.  Negotiate a price with me a fair amount lower than my asking price and never call me back.  Though two were actually professional and were the only recruiters from their office to call me and have gotten me actual interviews at some point.

First one (no recruiters involved) liked me but ended up hiring someone with a ridiculous amount of Access experience.  The pay was $20/hr more than my regular rate and my rate is not low.  However I could've gotten through that entire contract without writing a single line of code... and that's no fun.

Second one had an internal recruiter and is an actual consulting company, not a recruiting company posing as a consulting company.   Still waiting to hear from them (maybe today) but it didn't go that well.  I couldn't answer a few of their questions for which I actually know the answers.  I had medium level of technical expertise compared to other candidates.  They aren't looking for an Access programmer though, more of an SQL programmer.  Oh well.  At least they liked my presentation.

Right now, as I type, Visual Basic Express is being downloaded with SQL Server Express on my new AMD dual processor with 2... um almost 2 gb RAM.  Got a great deal at http://www.1saleaday.com.   I should probably get a book.  Any recommendations?  Also I might need some suggestions on what to code to show as a demo.

Thanks in advance.

-Nima

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Are you downloading Express to brush up on SQL server?  if so you might be better off investing the $50 in SQL Developer Edition, it has the same functionality as Enterprise.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
                           - Daffy Duck

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

(OP)
I don't think I'll be interviewing with questions that would apply to the Enterprise edition an not the Express edition.

-Nima

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Nima - I would also say, download Oracle. For development and / or training purposes I believe it is free. And its a great skill to have.

SantaMufasa and ThargtheSlayer are your friends here - I'd I'll happily join in with lower-level questions too.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

You can never be over prepared or know to much about a technology when going in to an interview or looking for a job related to that technology

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
                           - Daffy Duck

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

(OP)
OK, thanks.  

I know Oracle (and for that matter I know SQL Server).  What I would like to learn is VB.net OOP.  I don't think it'll be that hard.  Someone once told me that if I understand how a cookie cutter works, I can understand how OOP works.

I asked for advice on books here http://tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1498259&page=1

The Wrox books didn't always have good feedback.  The Microsoft books did.  I can see M$ having a vested interest in making their books really good.

If anyone has advice on VB.net books please reply on that link.  Thanks.

-Nima

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I traded OOD and C# lessons for MDX lessons with a friend of mine and he has given me a couple books for C# which have been real helpful.  I have hem at home and will post them with links to amazon tonight.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
                           - Daffy Duck

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

Someone once told me that if I understand how a cookie cutter works, I can understand how OOP works.

I want to know what kind of OOP that person was talking about!  I know how a cookie cutter works, but that didn't help in grasping the details of how to program OOP...getters, setters, methods, attributes, encapsulation, interfaces and implementations....and in Java, let's not forget the listeners!  

Yeah, a cookie cutter.....

Leslie

Have you met Hardy Heron?

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I totally agree with you Leslie.  Perhaps that person was talking about Design Patterns, not OOP as a whole.  I can see how Design Patterns can be likened to a cookie cutter.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

(OP)
It was a C++ class at Santa Monica College in Los Angeles county.  

Actually it wasn't the teacher.  It was a substitute, I think one of his students.  I don't remember if the class got canceled or I just dropped it b/c of the teacher not being there for the first few sessions.

It wasn't an elaborate nor detailed explanation of OOP.  Just a basic concept.  Makes sense, you create a basic frame and duplicate it elsewhere.  Just that you can make changes to that frame and it would be reflect it where you already used it.

-Nima

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Er, since Willif mentioned me in despatches, I thought I ought to contribute my three hap'orth to this discussion.

A few years ago, I was looking at being outsourced or taking voluntary severance from a 12 year permie job.  Before I went, I had the chance at an outplacement firm, as part of the severance deal.

I used my brain cell hard that day, and lo, t'was weary at the end thereof, but I reached the following conclusions,to wit:-

Oracle is a product that's been around for 30 years, and, since Oracle is a multi-billion dollar corporation, isn't likely to collapse any sooner than Microsoft.
Oracle commands a premium rate, because it's not for the faint-hearted, and you really have to know your stuff.  Believe me, attempting to BS in Oracle is a short cut to the exit...
If I have Oracle skills, I'll likely always be able to get some form of employment, even if it's not at the pay grade I want.

I used my severance credits to finish an OCP (Orace Certified Professional) course, and went contracting as an oracle developer.

Several years later, I am a senior oracle DBA, and am currently looking for contracts at a daily rate above £400.  There are some in the city, and/or Canary Wharf at £650 per day, but you need banking experience for those.

The big O has stood me in good stead, and since I'm a bit on the geeky side, it suits my character.

My point is, find something that will always pay the rent, that is roughly what you enjoy, and then work your socks off to acquire those skills.  Then reap the cash benefits.

Previous posters have mooted the idea of becoming multi-skilled, which appears sound, but it a mistake.  You must become excellent at the core skills, and by dint of experience add the others.  Trying to study six skills at once means that you will be good an none of them, and will always fluff a technical interview.

Responses via P45 please...

Regards

T

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote (thargtheslayer):


Previous posters have mooted the idea of becoming multi-skilled, which appears sound, but it a mistake.  You must become excellent at the core skills, and by dint of experience add the others.  Trying to study six skills at once means that you will be good an none of them, and will always fluff a technical interview.

Makes a good point that might be lost on those just starting in an IT career.  While I don't think any of us are actually saying learn C#, Oracle, MS SQL Server, ASP.NET all at the same time it may sometimes seem that way giving the the number of skills that members of this forum posses.  Many of us here who posses multiple skills and at a high level of competency, we have spent many years getting to that point.

As for myself I have invested close to a decade acquiring my Business Intelligence skills.  Data Warehousing, SQL, OLAP, MDX, ETL, Reporting Enterprise Architecture of these systems.  None of this was learned in an 8 hour work day,  but rather working reading and researching.  While it appears I have a large number of skills they all focus around 2 core technologies.

The most important part is as thargtheslayer has stated find something you enjoy because to reach the level that can command a premium salary you will end up investing a lot of time away from your office.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
                           - Daffy Duck

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I think that it really depends on what sort of job you're looking for.  If you're a DBA, then you should learn your database application (ie, Oracle, or SQL, or DB2, or whatever platform you use).  If you're a developer you'll probably need only one language, maybe two or three if it gets crazy.

If you are a systems engineer or architect, you'll be expected to know server operating systems (probably Microsoft, but also possibly some Linux/AIX/HP-UX/Solaris), networking (DHCP, DNS, etc), some routing/switching, storage technology, security, virtualization, hardware platforms and possibly some of the application layer as well (Exchange, Domino, or whatever).  You can certainly choose to focus on one of those areas, but even then you'll need at least some skills in those other areas.  If you do go the generalists route, then obviously you'll never know all of those areas as well as someone who focuses on just one of them.  But you probably will have an easier time getting up to speed on any of those areas as the need arises.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator  

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

The thing that struck me was your description of being a "MS Access Programmer".

The immediate impression this gives me is of someone who styles himself a "programmer" because he can throw a few bound forms together with wizard generated code.  I have just seen so many of these cobbled together Access applications, that I have serious doubts about the skills of someone who apparently has never used any other tools.

If I was hiring, I would prefer the candidate who had worked with several toolsets (let's say SQL Server, VB and a little .NET), with only some Access experience, over the person who had done only 100% Access programming.  This is true even if the job was specifically for Access development.

The former person has much more likely been educated in design principals such as RDMS and other general programming skills than the latter.  I would prefer the general skill over the specific skill (which may be no skill at all but rather a collection of bad habits that Access development tends to encourage).

Unlike Oracle, Access really isn't that big of a system to master.  Therefore, I would question the abilities of anyone who's worked for more than a year in the IT industry who's never gone outside the comfort zone of Access development.

I think you are making the right decision in expanding  your skillset.  On your resume, I would advise not to style yourself as an "Access Programmer", but rather as a "Programmer" who has worked with Access.

Joe Schwarz
Custom Software Developer
www.plandev.net
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Dice.com and do not click on state click on city and you will see lots and lots of jobs depending on where you live.
Akron, OH (71)
Allendale, NJ (7)
Alpharetta, GA (365)
Annapolis Junction, MD (81)
Arlington Heights, IL (28)
Ashburn, VA (68)
Atlanta, GA (1819)
Baltimore, MD (361)
Beaverton, OR (121)
Billerica, MA (86)
Boston, MA (1411)
Boulder, CO (162)
Chatsworth, CA (29)
Cleveland, OH (708)
Columbus, OH (781)
Dallas, TX (1556)
Denver, CO (693)
Des Moines, IA (172)
Fenton, MO (3)
Houston, TX (1679)
Huntsville, AL (284)
Indianapolis, IN (330)
Irving, TX (416)
Issaquah, WA (55)
Macon, GA (15)
Memphis, TN (212)
Middletown, NJ (122)
Midland, TX (11)
Minneapolis, MN (1072)
Moline, IL (28)
New York, NY (4735)
Newark, NJ (158)
Newport Beach, CA (90)
Norcross, GA (130)
Oldsmar, FL (7)
Phoenix, AZ (734)
Round Rock, TX (81)
Saint Louis, MO (770)
San Diego, CA (1166)
San Francisco, CA (2201)
Santa Clara, CA (585)
Santa Monica, CA (152)
Stamford, CT (329)
State College, PA (13)
Sunnyvale, CA (443)
Syracuse, NY (54)
Tampa, FL (518)
Washington, DC (1866)
Wayne, PA (112)
West Des Moines, IA (74)
as of 6:30 10/15/08

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

(OP)
Thanks Vegas, what did you do the search on?  Which keywords?

-Nima

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote:

Someone once told me that if I understand how a cookie cutter works, I can understand how OOP works.

No. But if you can use electrical devices, you can use objects. Electrical devices have a lot in common with objects. They have an inside and an outside, of which you only have to understand the outside if you want to use it. Because only the outside is important, the inside may differ completely for two devices doing the same.

The outside (we call it an interface in OOP) is recognizable: you recognize a power plug, or an audio plug. These plugs have somewhat abstract meanings: PowerConsumer, SoundProducer, etc. These abstractions help flexibility. You can, for instance, unplug the CD player from your amplifier and plug your brand new media centre into it. Being both "SoundProducers", this is possible. Even though the inside (the implementation in OO terms) is completely different.

In effect, OOP is not that much different from the modularization that took place in the electronics industry. Where the electronics industry started with one huge detailed scheme for every device, they now "click components together". These compoments are "objects": with a limited responsibility (just tone control for one channel, for instance) and therefore separately testable. In fact, the electronic industry has a lot of these simple, specialized testbenches for quality assurance. In OOP, we call them unit tests.

Now if you understand modularity and abstraction, you are more than half-way to the understanding of OOP.

+++ Despite being wrong in every important aspect, that is a very good analogy +++
   Hex (in Darwin's Watch)

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I've been looking 3 years now.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

There is something to be said about being in the field regardless of the level of the position. While I am not fond of them, Geek Squad is a perfect example of this. So you're a certified Net Admin, but you've been out of the field for a couple of years or longer and are trying to get back into the business, but have had ZERO luck. It is much better to be employed in the field than not in many cases (this is by no means an absolute). I was in school getting my Assosc. in programming while working as a computer repair tech (making on $6.25 an hour). Those two skills are what eventually landed me my first job as a programmer, because I had experience and was already working in the field (according to HR anyways). If you are really wanting to get into the field and it's a driving passion of yours (like it is for a lot of us here), then sometimes we have to go back to the 'trenches' to get back to where we would like to be.

"...and did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO!"
"Don't stop him. He's roll'n."

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

My experience is you have to be willing to go where the work is.  I have a few friends that complain about the job market or salaries in their area none are willing to move.  I on the otherhand have never taken more than 3 weeks to secure a job and I feel that along with my skills it is because I will go where needed to secure the work. The past 2 years I've moved from Las Vegas, to Shreveport LA to set up a BI development shop and most recently from Shreveport to Atlanta.

 

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
                           - Daffy Duck

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

MDXer,

Being open to relocation would definitely help, however many of us have other commitments that make relocation difficult if not eliminating it as an option completely.

For instance, if I moved across the country, I would seldom see my children.  This would not be in their best interest, and would likely be severely bad for my mental health.  Working retail would actually be a better option for me at that point.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Where in the Silver state are you located?  I still have contacts in Las Vegas and could point you to them if you are interested.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
                           - Daffy Duck

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote (shoalcreek):


Your most important skill when looking for a job and starting out on a job is simply knowing how to play the game. It doesn't ever matter if you can do the work. If you know how to scratch your supervisor's back, you will go as far as you want. Schmoozing, manipulating, and sucking up beat talent, hard work, and passion most of the time.

Many people don't like admitting this. However, you have to judge them by what they actually do, not by what they say.

Shoalcreek last logged on in August of 2008.

I certainly hope that he is no longer in the I.T. field.  The more of his posts I read, the more irate I get.
 

Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg  http://parallel.tzo.com
 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I think he may be working for our local authority, they have just spent over £500,000 on a website which keeps falling over.

How do these people get these gigs?
That would keep us and the kids in shoes for the rest of our lives and still have some left to pay off the mortgage.

Keith
www.studiosoft.co.uk

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Hah!  I saw that there was a new post in this thread and thought, "Man, I thought we had finally put this thing to rest months ago!"

FWIW, even in the current economic climate I am still gainfully employed and making more money than ever by being friendly, helpful, honest, skillful, and working hard (and not at manipulating people).

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator  

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

I'm friendly, helpful, honest, skillful, and still unemployed...

Hoping to start a role in a few weeks though I've had to take a hefty pay cut just to get a gig and a new car to get me there.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Unfortunately, being friendly, honest, helpful, reliable, etc. is still no guarantee.  However, it's still a better policy than lies and manipulation.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Seems to work for politicians... :)

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Lies and manipulation will eventually catch up with you. Ask Eliot Spitzer.

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Let's send a quick "Happy Anniversary" to Shoalcreek.  It's been 1 year since (s)he joined Tek-Tips.

 

RE: Anyone else having trouble finding work?

Quote (KornGeek):

Let's send a quick "Happy Anniversary" to Shoalcreek.  It's been 1 year since (s)he joined Tek-Tips.

Can we celebrate again on August 30? I'll mark my calendar.

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

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