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Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?
4

Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Howdy,

I am finishing the build of my latest personal PC, with swappable drives for my RAID 1 (Windows XP) and third drive, which I wanted to use for different OSes.  I have installed Vista to one drive, then over the weekend bought a fourth drive (36GB Raptor) to use for Ubuntu install.  It is running off a SATA interface set to "Standard IDE".  First time I used it it was raw, no formatting whatsoever.

I go through the install fine, Ubuntu sees the drive and I have tried virtually every partitioning configuration, all lead to the same thing:  when I get to the end of the installation, when the installer prompts me to "remove the CD and reboot", I do so, pointing my BIOS boot pop-up to the Ubuntu drive, and always get the same message:

"Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected drive and press a key"

At first I though it might have been a SATA driver issue, but I installed Win2K to the drive last night, without drivers, and it installed to the disk just fine.  Remember there are no other drives in the machine during Ubuntu load; I remove all drives except the target drive to reduce the chances of an OMG.

I also let Ubuntu verify the CD, no problems.  I've worked with Mandrake 9.0 a little but am basically Linux-illiterate, that's why I want to install...to learn.

Any guesses as to what I'm doing wrong will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks as always.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

It sounds like the installer installed the bootloader on the wrong drive/partition.

I don't believe it knows how to deal with drives the way you are trying: it will just install to the first detected hard drive. Your RAID array might be at risk here... it may have written the bootloader to it directly.

The only way to make this work properly is do a manual install with GRUB (the bootloader.) Even then, if the BIOS decides to reorder your boot devices, you may not be able to boot from that drive. When you install grub manually, you tell it to install to a number-ordered device, and if the BIOS reorders the boot order these numbers change and make your computer unbootable.

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
danomac,

Thanks for your reply.  The RAID drives have been removed from the system for Linux install.  During "Guided full drive" install, I get an un-changeable option for a 127.7k partition as SCSI 1, it is too small for anything, according to Ubuntu.  So, I install to the larger space, the remainder of the drive.  Setup finishes, but after "restart" I see a litany of "fail" messages that come & go very fast, it then tells me to remove CD and reboot.  

Remember, there is only ONE drive in the system when I do all this.  Could the tiny first partition be for the GRUB bootloader?  If so, I see no options to install it.  I've also tried letting the live CD to load, then installing from there...same same.  I've also tried installing to the free space of a drive with Win2K on it, just to see what happens...nothing, Windows boots with no options for Ubuntu.

Could it be my BIOS?  I ask this because my wireless mouse & keyboard, which works in BIOS, does not work during Ubuntu install.

Any further ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Another thought...is there another free Linux desktop download that I can try?  I tried Mandriva but it never went to the partitioner.  And should I delete the drive's contents in Windows or use an app like WD's free formatting tools?  I really appreciate your help.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Hm. If it is the only drive when you install, I would download the Ultimate Boot CD (ubcd.sf.net) and use the disk wiping tools (assuming there is nothing of value on the disk.)

Then try booting from the install CD and try again. It seems very odd that it is showing a partition that small. I have seen 20MB partitions for the boot partition, but grub itself is usually put into the MBR.
 

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Well, I went through all the utilities on the UBCD to wipe the drive, then booted to the Ubuntu CD, here's what I saw:



The SCSI2 partition is 327.7k, so I installed to the SCSI7 partition, same results.  I guess I could try and hook up a PATA HDD to the CD channel, setting it as master and the CD-ROM as slave, but I'm out of gas for today.

This means that Ubuntu sees the drive, correct?  I did try an install to a PATA drive with the same results, but it was plugged into the same controller (JMicron).  Maybe that's the culprit.  

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Yes, I was just reading about the JMicron chipset causing some odd issues. I have no idea on how to fix this, although one thread I read suggested setting the sata mode to ahci compatible in the BIOS if it isn't already.

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Wahnula, looking at the screen shot of the partition setup, it looks like the 327 K partition is the dvd drive and the other one is your new HD.  The SDA (327 k) is the first drive the installer sees and the SDB (37 G) is the second drive.  The installer will try to put the boot loader on the MBR of the first drive (DVD) which if my idea is correct, is impossible.

When you tried to install to the larger drive, that is where the OS would be installed, but the boot loader would still try  to load on the smaller drive.

I would suggest checking the bios and make sure the hard drive is found before the dvd.   

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

As an aside, if you have problems with the disk, I would recommend spending some 200MB (definitely enough) on a separate boot partition (mounted to /boot). This will allow for more flexibility on repair utilities. Use the "manual" menu option to do this.

+++ Despite being wrong in every important aspect, that is a very good analogy +++
   Hex (in Darwin's Watch)

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Great, thanks folks.  So far Tek-Tips: 3 helpers, Ubuntu forums: 0.

Quote (danomac):

...one thread I read suggested setting the sata mode to ahci compatible...

Great place to start, thanks.  It's a simple adjustment and I will try it this evening.

Quote (OldTechGuy):

...t looks like the 327 K partition is the dvd drive and the other one is your new HD.

D'oh! <slaps forehead>...of course!  The CD-ROM is on the primary IDE channel, and the Windows array is on the ICH7 SATA channel.  In Windows Disk Management, the JMicron (37 GB Raptor) is seen as Drive 0 while RAID array is Drive 1  (OS & apps partition) and Drive 2, CD-Rom is drive 3.  So, I think I've got that part OK.

Quote (DonQuichote):

As an aside, if you have problems with the disk, I would recommend spending some 200MB (definitely enough) on a separate boot partition (mounted to /boot). This will allow for more flexibility on repair utilities. Use the "manual" menu option to do this.

Thanks, I will research how to do this.

  

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Update:

AHCI mode makes no difference to Ubuntu...still no go, but Windows lost my DVD-ROM until I reset it to Basic.  There are three settings: Basic, RAID, and AHCI.

I tried to manually partition the drive, named a 200MB partition /boot, but after that Ubuntu asked for a swap partition and an install partition, I did not know the terminology to create the proper partitions, but did finish the install minus the swap partition, which I was warned would slow down the system...at this point I didn't care about speed, I just wanted it to boot!

What is the correct terminology for the other (2) partitions?

I also noticed another oddity:  my wireless keyboard and mouse, which work in BIOS, do not work in the Ubuntu CD.  I need to hook up a PS/2 set to proceed with the fun.

Is there another free distro you folks can recommend just to see if my BIOS & HDD are compatible w/ Linux?  Like I said I installed Win2K with NO drivers at all and it worked...well, like Win2K.  The mainboard is an Asus P5W-DH Deluxe, with the latest BIOS.

Thanks as always.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Generally speaking, the swap partition should be twice the amount of ram you have.  You can use the rest of the disk for the install partition.

I have a Logitech wireless mouse and all the various flavors of linux recognizes it.  (Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora, and CentOS).  I do now some people had to do the install with wired keyboards and mice, then they could use their wireless keyboards and mice.  That may be worth a try.  

Good Luck

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
OldTechGuy,

Thanks.  What should the other two partitions be called?  I know the first is /boot.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

The three partitions would be "/boot" about 200 k in size, "/swap" about twice the size of your memory and "/" the rest of the space.  Sometimes the "/" partition is referred to as root, but in reality "/root" is a super user (Administrator in Windows terms).  "/" also contains a number of directories for such things as temporary space, programs, and "/home" where the normal users reside, such as "/home/tony".

Welcome to the wonderful world of UNIX.

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)

Quote (OldTechGuy):

Welcome to the wonderful world of UNIX.

smile

I'm not the type to give up.  If I can't get Ubuntu up, I will try your other suggestions.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

If the installer really is trying to install the bootloader to /dev/sda (cdrom) then it'll have to be installed manually. While it's not terribly hard to do this, we would need to know how ubuntu sets up its kernels and initrd. With this information, it wouldn't be difficult to manually install the bootloader to /dev/sdb. It's kind of bizarre that ubuntu is detecting the cdrom incorrectly (it should be /dev/sr0.)

I'm going to be in and out all weekend starting today (helping someone move, internet access questionable...) but when I get back I will check here again.

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Tony,

1. let me guess, your DVD drive is SATA as well? do you have an IDE CD/DVD drive to try?

PS: SDx = SCSI/SATA DRIVE x A-Z (various drives)
    HDx = IDE Drives...
    as I am thinking, along with others, that that could be your problem...

2. you asked about another Distro to try, well let me suggest either OpenSuSE 10.3 or 11 (KDE4 is a small pain at present so stick with KDE3 as desktop or with Gnome (ugh, not my preference)...
http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org
problem, it is REALLY big (4.3 GB)...
 

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Hi Ben,

Nope, ODD is PATA.  The P5W-DH is weird, the JMicron controller controls the two IDE ports, one internal SATA port, and one eSATA port.  The CD-ROM shows up as first master IDE drive.  I did try using a slave IDE HDD for the install, exactly the same results.  I also tried it in the PATA 2 port and same same.  Using an IDE drive will also hose my mobile drive rack plans.

I think I'll try your suggestion about openSUSE...at this point I just want something to work, to prove to me that this swappable-drive scenario is going to be as useful as I thought.  I'll futz with it this weekend.  Thanks for jumping in.  The total now:

Tek-Tips helpers: 4  
Ubuntu forums helpers: 0

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Thanks for the update there Tony,

the DVD is it connected to the IDE port at the bottom or the one at the right side of the mainboard? same for the SATA drives?

reasoning, the connectors at the bottom of the mainboard are the JMicron controlled ports and the ones at the right side are the ones that are controlled by the ICH7 controller...

now if you have all at the right side connected, then you can turn off the JMicron per BIOS setting and let the ICH7 control all of them...

that way it should be a breeze to install a Linux Distro...

just found an interesting article, unfortunately it is in German, but a guy had the same problem (no raid though of XP, 3 drives two 320GB and one 200GB (where he wanted to install Linux on)), XP was installed on one 320GB with Standard IDE mode for the SATA drives, he had to change the mode to AHCI to install LINUX, and then switch between MODES to either boot XP or LINUX...

Basically, you will need a distro with a kernel 2.6.20 or better (could even be 2.6.22) (SuSE 11 has 2.6.22 or 25, so that one should work)...

How To Enable AHCI MODE in after installing Windows
http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=444831

 

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Ben,

Thanks for your comments.  The IDE on the side was the one that the ODD was connected to that disappeared after I set JMicron to "AHCI", so I don't think it's the ICH7 controlling that anymore.  ICH7 is set to RAID and always will be due to my WinXP RAID 1 main install.  

I use the JMicron SATA port that's right above the audio daughterboard, hard to get to but I have to use it to use my mobile drive racks, it's the only working SATA port I have available.  It works fine w/ Vista and Win2K.  I might try an install with Windows on the third drive along with ubuntu, or openSUSE...don't quite know yet.  I saw a video on the Web that documented how to do this procedure.

The whole point of this design was to avoid opening the case and hooking/unhooking stuff to boot to alternate OSes.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Well, to answer my own question (about what I'm doing wrong) thanks to you folks and openSUSE I now know the answer is...nothing.  openSUSE installed just fine, thank you, including having a workable wireless mouse & keyboard during installation, which was nothing if not uneventful.  Pop the DVD in, let it do its thing, 20 minutes later I've got a working Linux install.

I'm still not giving up on Ubuntu, just taking a break from frustration.  I do have a couple older versions already downloaded so I'll start there...I will not admit defeat!

Thanks to all for treating me as a peer not a peon.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Glad to hear that you got a Linux install working... Now welcome to the Linux World... winky smile

in my book, Tony you are a peer...

PS: take a look at WUBI to installing Ubuntu under Windows...

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Congratulations, Glad you got things working.  Now that you know that SUSE works on your system, you can pound your head trying to get Ubuntu working.

I would say you are not only a peer, but a geek as well.  Welcome to the wonderful world of Unix/Linux.

One of the things I have found out is there are a number of ways to do something.  If one doesn't work, try another one.

 

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

JFYI - update on the Kernel:

Ubuntu 8.04 2.6.24
SuSE 11.0 2.6.25

means SuSE has updated drivers and or correct drivers for the JMicron controller...

 

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

(OP)
Well I am having fun with the new install...even hosed it totally!  Didn't think that was possible, but I was tweaking Compiz Fusion and the screen turned solid white...at least it wasn't blue with a handful of gibberish!  Did the same in "Fail Safe..."

Tried repairing it, ended up just re-installing.  I don't think you can learn an OS until you've installed it a few times...which I did yesterday.  

I like the way you can copy-and-paste text into the console, reduces syntax errors. Generally having fun, except for no built-in spell-check in this version of Firefox, I will try others.  That, and I need to get used to all these silly names with odd capitalizations, like YaST.  All-in-all it has been a pleasurable experience so far.  I'm sure I'll be back with more ???...smile

BTW I did try an older version of Ubuntu I had laying around, 7.0x.  It did not make it past the partitioner, so I'll be waiting for the next release.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Cannot start Ubuntu 8.04...what am I doing wrong?

Quote:

the screen turned solid white...
at the boot screen type: init 3this will take you into the console (no X windows) there you can run sax2 to readjust the X windows screen to what it should be... and if that does not work then reinstall it...

Quote:

at least it wasn't blue with a handful of gibberish!
ROFL... even starting to sound like linuxian, there...

Quote:

I don't think you can learn an OS until you've installed it a few times...
probably wont be your last either...

Quote:

I like the way you can copy-and-paste text into the console, reduces syntax errors.
ought to try the TAB, when you type in the console, e.g. you type: cd /h+TAB and the console magically does: cd /home ... etc... PS: in Windows you can copy & paste aswell...

Quote:

That, and I need to get used to all these silly names with odd capitalizations, like YaST.
remember, and keep in the back of the mind, Linux is case sensitive...

Quote:

All-in-all it has been a pleasurable experience so far.
oh, it is, but there will be days when you will swear at the box... at least these have become less and less likely, due to better driver support and install procedures, I remember trying to install an ATI driver years ago what a pain trying to configure it (SuSE 9.0), these days it's a breeze, gui driven...
but formost, ENJOY the learning process there Tony...

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

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