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Dropping IT - What would you do?
3

Dropping IT - What would you do?

Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)
What would you do if you woke up one morning and decided that after years of school and work, doing what you thought you should be doing, you absolutely hate what you are doing in IT?  What if you find that you want to move in a completely different direction?

(Disclaimer: I took a Myers-Briggs test in a class two weeks ago and have been thinking WAY too much about the results.)

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Dollie,
Is it definitely IT or is it industry or is it the wrong specialization within IT?  Curious... your answers will affect the advice that could be offered.

~Thadeus

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)
It's the industry, environment, location... everything is in question and I'm finding myself sleepless over it!  It's as if this 'test' made me realize that I may not be doing what I feel I *should* be doing.  I'm not sure if dropping my career and (for an extreme example) grabbing a potters wheel is truly the best idea.

I'm also a little chicken about just taking the plunge, but the fact that I'm not advancing at all where I am now is looming large.  If I keep thinking like this, I'm concerned that it really will affect my work.

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Do you know what you would like to do?
I'm in the situation of having made a definite decision to leave IT, but have yet to decide where I want to go!

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I work in IT because it pays the mortgage...no other reason. I go home and forget my day and try and do something i enjoy instead.

I am currently doing a full time degree in English Literature and Media Studies (distance learning). Not for anything apart from my on enjoyment.

"Whoever battles with monsters had better see that it does not turn him into a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." ~ Nietzsche"

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I guess I have been fortunate with my chosen field as I look forward to going to work everyday even though at the present time I'm unemployed. I am thinking about changing careers only because there are so few job's in my field available today. In today's economy if you have a good paying job you better really look around at the career field you might be considering changing to, are there and openings and can you survive on the salary it pays and is it a stable field or is it subject to layoff's all the time like mine or employers trying to get away with cheaper help.
You realy need to think about these things before making any big changes in your life. Maybe try do it part time to see if you like it and can make a decent living at it.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)
I'm currently working on getting a college education (I took a <cough> 20 year break after high school).  I know what I'd like to do, and am looking at taking a few classes for it just to see how it goes.  Maybe I'll take it up as a summer hobby in between semesters.  

However, I also think that taking those classes would put me farther away from my degree.  If I had a mortgage or children (neither of those are in my future), it would be much different, but I'm not pinned.

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I employee the same method as LizSara for the same reasons,  I forget about my day as soon as I hit my car.  I play a lot of chess on line to give me something to let my brain flex a little and have some fun at the same time.

Thanks,

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:

I'm currently working on getting a college education (I took a <cough> 20 year break after high school).  I know what I'd like to do, and am looking at taking a few classes for it just to see how it goes.  Maybe I'll take it up as a summer hobby in between semesters.  

However, I also think that taking those classes would put me farther away from my degree.  If I had a mortgage or children (neither of those are in my future), it would be much different, but I'm not pinned.

Dollie,

I'm doing the same thing. It's a huge pain in the backside, but I commend you. (Damn it would have been easier 20 years ago!! well 15 for me) With all that said. Take the classes it will help give some perspective. Also keep in mind that many employers are just looking to see a degree, doesn't seem to matter what in, so unless you are looking at specializing in a particular area, don't get distracted.

If you are currently not pinned down, then go for what you really want, you don't have to worry about anyone else, and you can afford to work for less $ if it will increase your overall happiness.

Good luck :D

--Dan
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Dollie,

I'm in the same boat.  I just finished my 14 year bachelors degree. Quite a few people asked me if I was working towards a degree in computer science since that's my career. I'd tell each and every one of them that I never, ever want another computer class again. I've got a good management degree now that I can hopefully use to either move up in my current role or move OUT if I'd like to.

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:

It's the industry, environment, location... everything is in question and I'm finding myself sleepless over it!  It's as if this 'test' made me realize that I may not be doing what I feel I *should* be doing.  I'm not sure if dropping my career and (for an extreme example) grabbing a potters wheel is truly the best idea

I had a mid-life career change too, but it was in the opposite direction.  I was a professional musician, making excellent money, a dream job to most folks.  But 30 years into it, I hated going to a crummy bar (even if that bar was in Denmark, London, or Munich) while my friends were working in recording studios or with name acts.  I considered myself a failure.

While taking some time off (well actually my two-month solo gig was canceled) I visited my sister in Texas and walked into a Garden Center looking into getting a peon job weeding or cleaning up.  The boss heard about my education in Landscape Architecture and Art (which I thought I hated), and put me to work drawing plans and bidding jobs.  I had gone to college in the 70's, but this did not matter in the end.

Truth was, I enjoyed meeting new people and using my artistic side in a more socially acceptable way.  I started out at $10/hour and, 10 years later, I am making six figures and, while I can't say I love every minute of it, I would never want to return to pro music.  It just was not for me.

I also had the fun of helping to make a small family business into a growing company with a bright future.  AND developed a hobby of PC building and networking and all things geek, so I can satisfy that need by running the company server and network, and also save the company fistfuls of cash.

So...follow your heart, keep your eyes and mind open, the right job may present itself to you, you just need to be ready when it does.  Do not worry about the $$$, if you are happy that is priceless, and the money will follow.

Tony

Users helping Users...

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

3
Luckily for me, I love the work I do. I'm making decent money, and I look forward to work each day.

My sister (age 49), however, has embarked upon a very interesting odyssey that may offer some encouragement to you.

My sister is the mother of three, ages 28, 25, and 18 (the older two are married; youngest still at home, attending high school.) Six years ago, she chose to end her marriage, in which her husband had become increasingly abusive.

As a single mom, she was trying desperately to provide for her family (ex-husband paid a whopping $74 per month child support). I supplemented her income each month so that they could better make ends meet.

Our father had been highly successful in real estate investment, but he died the day before his 52nd birthday, when my sister was age 13. She had always wanted to follow in our dad's footsteps, but neither she nor I could underwrite such an undertaking.

Last year, however, following much due diligence in identifying the ideal mentors and training source, I underwrote her tuition to receive the proper training.

She has exercised wise and intelligent application of her training. She stays aware of opportunities that surround her. Since January (when she began her efforts in earnest), she has earned between $80K-$110K per month! She has paid me back, in full (including her tuition). She has fully funded her retirement contributions for both last year and this year (to the extent that the government allows). And she is well on her way to continued success.

Where she was not earning a great deal prior to her current successes, it did not require a massive leap of faith. (Had she been earning six figures previously, then THAT would have required a big leap of faith...to quit her day job in return for the prospect of increasing her income so significantly.)

It did, however, still require guts...To invest time and money in a profession that was new, and, for her, yet untested. She did set about learning the "secrets of success" that wealthy practitioners seemed to possess, and she had the courage to implement what she had learned.

Regardless of what endeavor you end up selecting, Dollie, as your new profession of choice, I believe that my sister's successes produce a reasonable model:
  • Seek out successful practitioners who are willing to give back to their profession via mentoring sincere and motivated neophytes.
  • Identify the behaviours that successful practitioners use to produce success/wealth in their field of endeavor.
  • Identify risks/pitfalls and implement protections to mitigate/avoid those risks.
  • Assemble a team of wise people whom you can consult, to help you see both potential and pitfalls to your professional opportunities. (Your team can consist of family, friends, and professionals whom you respect as having wisdom in various fields.)
  • Develop enough self-confidence to begin pursuing your dreams. (This does not mean that you must quit your day job. But it does mean start doing what gives you more joy and happiness.)
I believe that you already have a built-in team of colleagues, here on Tek-Tips and in this forum, who are willing to provide free (and to a certain degree, wise) advice that you might find useful in your new endeavors.

Best of luck (which is simply matching preparation with opportunity), Dollie.

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)
You know, I NEVER expected to get warm fuzzies from Tek-Tips! Thank you, thank you, thank you all.

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:

Thinking at all about the Myers-Briggs pseudo-scientific parlour game is too much. You certainly shouldn't base life changing decisions upon it.

Personally I'm finding working through the results of mine incredibly useful.  It's not like it comes up with a prescriptive result of what you should be doing in life, but it has certainly helped me to look at things from a different angle & realise that some traits I had previously seen as faults can in fact be real strengths.

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

These tests may have some questionable science by they can make you think.  They are also fun. Years ago, Myers-Briggs placed me somewhere more dictatorial than Ghengis Khan (possibly accurate winky smile ).   I recently took Insights with a little different results (aggressively comatose) - maybe I mellowed with age.   

_____
Jeff
It's never too early to begin preparing for International Talk Like a Pirate Day
"The software I buy sucks,  The software I write sucks.  It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)
I'm not planning on major life changes simply because of the test, but the test has put several things in my life into perspective.  It's caused me to step back and look at the priorities in my life as well as the path my life has taken over the last two decades.  

My mother kids me and says that I'm in the middle of my mid-life crisis (probably because I gave her no end of grief when I thought she was going through hers).  Maybe that's what it is, but maybe it's the one thing that will get me motivated to do what I want to do, not what I think I need to do.

And I'm an ISFP, "the composer". (aka "weenie")

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote (LizSarah):

Quote (Mufasa):

$80K-$110K per month
Are you sure tha'ts what you meant, that's an inordinate amount of money a month!!
Yep...she's shown me the deposit receipts into her bank account, and she's paid me back, in full, for six years of my supporting her. She's on track for nearly seven figures this year.

That's why I am adjusting my income model from relying upon the Database Administration niche to her model that is based upon Real Estate: training, intelligent real estate investment, hard-money loans, and leveraging one's retirement funds to underwrite the loans and investments...I love database administration as an occupation, but I also like earning what she is earning, too!
 

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Dollie

If you're looking for self analysis, Myers-Briggs is a good start, but it only indicates a part  - there are a lot of other tools available - Belbin is a good one , as is the whole area of "Learning Styles" ie (Activist / Reflector / Theorist / Pragmatist).

I'd advise looking at a few of these together with an analysis of where you are now  - what do you like/dislike about your work.  Where do you want to be - what do you want to do?

A day with a really good career counsellor could help you put things into perspective.

Rosie
"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." Richard Feynman

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Dollie, I took a break from IT as well for my family. I just knew it was something more for me than to be in IT Help Support Industry. However, after teaching for six years I have to get back in IT and try to use what I've learned in the last few years to make my life better in IT. You have to choose something that will make you happy and understand there are problems everywhere you go and sometimes it is worst in some arenas.

I prayed for guidance and I believe God sent to teaching and he is sending me back to IT but with a different outlook on life.  

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

The term IT is a small word, but IT is a very large area, is not just a Help Desk or building PC's look around, there's more to it than that.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

If it wasn't for girlfriend, kids, mortgage, car payments, and student loans I would do something else besides IT, but nothing else pays that well.  

Unless I want to go back to medical school or law school and rack up more student loans.  Then spend years becoming a partner in a law firm to make six figures and 80-hour work weeks.  Or longer hours as an intern in medicine and more stress over being sued for malpractice.

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Mufasa,

Sounds like you're pursuing what would be for me a dream career path.  I'd ask for more details, (but then there'd be a hundred of us crowding your market! winky smile )

_____
Jeff
It's never too early to begin preparing for International Talk Like a Pirate Day
"The software I buy sucks,  The software I write sucks.  It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Actually, Jeff, intelligent/wise real estate investment is a market/profession that will probably never be over-saturated.

If anyone wants to know how my sister and I are doing what we are doing, you may contact me via my signature for more details. (I just don't want to hijack this thread. 2thumbsup)

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

The only use I've ever found for Myers-Briggs was interactions with those I knew to have other results. I will add that a large group of us engineering and IT types at a Fortune 500 company took the test at the same time about 15 years ago. While very very very few had 'F'eeling as opposed to 'T'hinking, the rest of the results really were all over the board.

It may just be your particular job that you dislike. IT is a very wide field. We include everything from Unix weenies to web designers in IT (and there are few indeed who can fill both of those roles well).

I've had a number of very similar jobs (on paper) over the last 10 years, and I've experienced the full gamut from I love this job and company! to the polar opposite. (I respectfully decline to offer a comment on my current employ.)smile

What do you want to do?
 

Greg
People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. Kierkegaard

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Professional thumb wrestler
Butterfly tamer

Anything but IT !!!!

Patrick

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Anybody that lets a test determine what they should be doing in life, needs more help then that test can give them. In my 66 years of living, I think I have only meet about 20 people that where truly happy in there chosen field. The rest did it for the money or weren't smart enough to do anything else.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I don't remember who said it, but it's true.

Do you know why adults ask children what they want to be when they grow up?  The adults are looking for ideas...

< M!ke >
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I don't know - I've always wanted a job delivering mail.  Or working at Trader Joe's would be fun too - I like the Hawaiian shirts.

In case you don't have a Trader Joe's near you, it's this really great grocery chain with several stores in the midwest and elsewhere.  Everyone seems so cheerful.  Even if it's drugs, I'll take it!

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I'd drive the ferry boat between Padstow and Rock in Cornwall.
Rounding each day off with a swift pint in the pub at the end of the harbour.

--
Tek-Tips Forums is Member Supported. Click Here to donate

<honk>*:O)</honk>

Tyres: Mine's a pint of the black stuff.
Mike: You can't drink a pint of Bovril.


 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I wanted to be a vet - then realised that good vets are not grumpy & uncommunicative when woken in the middle of the night!  (& thank goodness I changed my mind, since developed allergies to cats & rabbits!)
A friend's mum was apparently quite disappointed when he expressed his desire to become a bin-man, until discovering his reason was because they only worked on Tuesdays!

Redsmooth -want a partner for your butterfly tamery?  We could expand into synchronised bumble-bee flights.
 

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

As soon as I get my instrument rating I am thinking full-time flying.

"Teamwork means never having to take all the blame yourself."
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)

Quote (acewarlock):

Anybody that lets a test determine what they should be doing in life, needs more help then that test can give them. In my 66 years of living, I think I have only meet about 20 people that where truly happy in there chosen field. The rest did it for the money or weren't smart enough to do anything else.

Sometimes there are things that get the brain thinking about things other than the position in life that you're stuck in.  Being miserable in my job is absolutely the last thing that I want, and after taking the "test", it got me thinking about what I do want.  I'm thinking that if you took the same test, you would probably be in the "judgmental" category, instead of the more emotional "feeling" category...not sure why I think that...

I'm not that much younger than you, although you're just barely old enough to be a parent instead of a peer.  I'd like to believe that there are enough jobs in the world that I can find one that will make me happy as well as give me a livable income.  And believe me, as a former girl scout in IT, I'm not too stupid to do anything else.

And to the rest:  I've decided that once I finish up college, I'm going to start teaching part time.  I've always wanted to retire in a noble career, as a teacher.  Now I might get my chance smile

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Sorry you took it personal, I was speaking in general. My job in my hobby and my hobby is my job, best of both worlds.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote (Santa):

Seek out successful practitioners who are willing to give back to their profession via mentoring sincere and motivated neophytes.
And this is precisely what Tek-Tips is all about.  I love this site.

I personally love programming and database design.  In fact, I sometimes do it in my spare time (which is a rare commodity these days).  

I was without stable employment for most of the last three years.  I recently took a job at a substantially lower pay rate than what I used to earn.  In addition to the stability it offers, I also like the group of people here, enjoy the work, and I'm learning new (and marketable) skills.  Although I'm hurting for money, it's a wonderful feeling going to bed on Sunday night thinking "I get to go to work tomorrow."

However, this whole thread reminds me of the movie Office Space. (Paraphrasing from memory...)

Peter: "What would you do if you had a million dollars and didn't have to work?"
Lawrence: "I'll tell you what I'd do, man.  Two..."

oops, wrong part of the conversation...
fast-forwarding a bit...

Lawrence: "What would you do, man?"
Peter: "Nothing."
Lawrence: "Nothing?"
Peter: "Nothing."
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:

Disclaimer: I took a Myers-Briggs test in a class two weeks ago and have been thinking WAY too much about the results.

Yes, you definitely are. I certainly would not hire someone who said: "Myers-Briggs said should I do this career."

 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)
OK, just so people kinda understand what I've been thinking about...

I'm in IT.  I'm a sysadmin/mail admin/network admin/everything-else admin.  I never went to college when I should have, and chose instead to take a rather long break after high school.  What I know about IT was learned at the School of Hard Knocks. I've been back taking night classes since 2005.  I've always had an artsy-fartsy streak in me, and since I was little I have wanted to be a teacher.  However, something about IT clicked in me a long time ago and I chose to try and pursue a career in it.  I have reached my peak in my position, however.  Last semester one of my teachers asked the class to take the test so we could see how we all compared to each other, and to help us learn how to deal with other personality types.  

I was the only one in the class with any type of emotional/feeling result instead of judgmental, and I was deemed to be the most "thenthitive" person in the class. I had to laugh at the list of famous people in my category because it included both Britney Spears and Mother Theresa.  The list of 'suggested career paths' wasn't as funny as it listed things like receptionist, daycare teacher, and artist.  It did surprise me that no one else in my class was remotely close to my MB 'type'.

Maybe I did take a mis-step when choosing my path in life.  What I chose to do is put a thread here pondering it, but I haven't done things like tell my boss I'm in the wrong line of work, quit my job spontaneously, or altered my resume to show my Myers-Brigs personality type.  

Maybe I'll combine everything and be an IT teacher with a pottery wheel and easel at home.  I still have several years of night classes before I'm looking at a degree, so I'm going to keep plodding along as I am for now.

smarty

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote (Dollie):

I've always had an artsy-fartsy streak in me, and since I was little I have wanted to be a teacher.  However, something about IT clicked in me a long time ago and I chose to try and pursue a career in it.
You sound like a perfect candidate for:<drum roll, please> College-level Computer-Aided Design/Graphics Design/Animation/Video Production Instructor.

Good luck on your quest. Keep us informed of your next occupational/professional adventure.

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
"Beware of those that seek to protect you from harm. The cost will be your freedoms and your liberty."

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Dollie - I don't want to hijack the thread, but I am going through the same kind of thing, I think.  I too, didn't go to college when I should have and am paying dearly for that now - it's much harder to go to school when working full time.  

Right now, I'm kind of feeling that the job I have (while I enjoy for the most part) is one that I can merely do, rather than one that entertains any real personal interest of mine (i.e., music, photography, etc...).  Not sure what to do about that - if I can do anything.  I figure I'll be working for a while yet and I'd like to have my job figure into my personal interests if possible.  

I've been a member of TT for a while, but haven't really posted a lot.  I'm not a spammer, nor a headhunter.  Just someone who is struggling with this issue right now.  Is there a way we can communicate offline from this forum to compare stories/ideas to help deal with it?  LMK.  

Thanks!  
jsisley

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I wholeheartedly understand the desire to leave IT nowadays. I honestly don't think I will ever get out of this career what I have put into it. It is equally frustating to see people who are much dumber than I am and people who have pretty lousy work ethics do better than I have done.

At the same time, I have no idea where I would go. I have no idea what career I would choose.

I had career growth for about a year, and that ended in 1999. I took a job in late 1998 for $30,000 and am now making only about $42,000. It has been a fight just to keep my salary at that level. It's not like I have stayed at the same company or job during all that time, which would have been better than all the pain and suffering I've went through. When I did my taxes for 2007, my income was only about $15,000.

If I was still progressing and growing, I would be just fine with this career. I am quite confident that I could have been a CCIE by now. The problem is quite simple--nobody has ever given me a chance to be successful. Instead, I am still doing mostly help-desk work.

Most telling is the fact that my home PC is six years old now. I have bought parts, but have little interest in building my new system. I simply have no interest in "playing" with computers anymore.

I used to like the work. I consider it noble work. For about two years or so, I committed to spend one hour per day reading something. I eventually got my MCSE on NT 4.0, then found that it was totally worthless. The bottom line--nobody cares if you make an honest effort to improve yourself.

It will take a lot to get my passion back. A job at about $70,000 per year WITH A FORTY-HOUR WORK-WEEK would be a good start. I would also need a job with opportunities to grow and advance in this career--a chance to use the 135 IQ that I have.
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

It is equally frustating to see people who are much dumber than I am and people who have pretty lousy work ethics do better than I have done.

I agree, but if you are smarter than these people and have a better work ethic, you have to ask yourself how those people are able to do better than you are doing.  Are they gaming the system somehow?  Is it the "old boys" network?  Because in my experience quality eventually wins out, if you have a chance to prove your quality.

Don't get me wrong, I have spent a lot of time learning how to "play the system" as well.  I'm not dishonest about things, but I make damn sure that I know how to compete.  If that means schmoozing the right people, or getting certifications, or whatever it takes then I do it.

For example, my employer has a meeting once a week for all recruiters, salespeople, management, and so on.  It's basically everyone but the consultants, and they use it to plan strategies, project resources, and talk about what's going on in different areas of the company.  Since I'm not a part of that group I rarely get face time with upper management, so last year I made it my personal goal to get my name mentioned in that meeting as often as possible.  Sometimes they just mention that I got a new certification, sometimes it's that I referred a candidate or a customer to to the company.  I try to do some public speaking events every couple of months at local technical schools and make sure that management knows when I do it.  It may seem simple-minded, but the more often that management hears my name associated with positive events the faster my perceived value rises.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator  

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:

I agree, but if you are smarter than these people and have a better work ethic, you have to ask yourself how those people are able to do better than you are doing. Are they gaming the system somehow?

I am convinced that success or failure in any career (not just IT) is based mostly on how good or bad a manipulator the person is. The best manipulators rise to the top. The other thing here to remember is that being a "good manipulator" is largely based on your non-verbal communication.

I have spent years studying this kind of stuff--Silva mind control, neuro-linguistic programming, hypnosis, acting, and the "seduction community." I have been a Toastmaster for six years, too.

My main problem is that I don't seem to be willing to apply this stuff. There is a part of me that still desperately wants to believe that quality does win out. I have also been a Toastmaster for six years.

As a result, I have considered coaching. I also like the people I have met in my NLP and hypnosis studies. Acting classes are an absolute goldmine if you want to meet smart, attractive women. This stuff is actually fun, everything IT used to be.
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)
Have some of us simply jumped the shark, with the shark being the drastic changes in technology happening between 1995 and 2005?  Now that things are settling down a bit for office systems (unless you're stuck with a new CRM or ERP system), have jobs turned into maintenance positions instead of development?

These questions are just rhetorical, but something I thought of while reading through the last several responses.  

And jsisley, you've found the perfect forum to discuss this.  My IT job is staying just as it is for a while, while I attend school.  I'll be lucky to have an Associate degree by the time I'm 50, so I'm looking at a bachelor's degree by 60 unless there is some way I can pay someone to take classes for me! Hrm, I may be on to something there...

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

It does seem like the BS artists tend to succeed. I can't understand how someone can be personally in charge of a debacle and get a promotion out of it. "Failing upwards," they call it. Looking at the careers of the people I've worked with and held in the greatest contempt, it's completely astounding. They leave their last company in a situation like the Titanic just after it struck the berg, fatally wounded but the passengers all still blissfully unaware. The parasite arrives at my company, in charge of Marketing, and from the organization to the ground like a cheetah pouncing on a gazelle. Amidst the dust and tumble of the fall, he kicks free, leaving us in the victimized company bleeding, broken and dazed as he bounds off for some other company to destroy.

At the dot.com I was at, our salesmen were grand masters of BS. For a nothing company, we were talking with some major players and making tremendous deals. Of course, we completely lacked the technology to follow through on what we promised but holy crap, with the investment money we were raking in we could have developed it! But that wasn't what they were into. It was a typical "The Producers" scheme of getting a ton of investment money, sucking it out of the company via salary, bonuses, and other perks, then declaring bankruptcy, dems the breaks, so sorry and thanks for playing.

The thing is, this is not just an IT problem, it's an everywhere problem. The only reason why us geeks tend to think of it as IT-specific is because this is where we're seeing it and we'd like to imagine that the grass is greener somewhere else. It isn't. :(  

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

What I see in IT is a lot of what I call "entrenched mediocrities." These are people who have been with a company for a while. Anytime anyone who might be better comes in, these entrenched mediocrities sabotage the new people. Sometimes it is out of malice, and sometimes it is out of stupidity.

I have been on several jobs where the old employees actually complained that I was asking "too many" questions. I just wanted to learn the job and figured these jerks would actually help out--that's called teamwork. One even threatened me. These jobs didn't last more than four months. I have also been in cases where I have been given the wrong advice by an older employee.

I still don't think it's a problem everywhere. I've worked elsewhere and didn't see this kind of garbage. I often tell people that in IT, the bad drives out the good.
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

"Entrenched mediocrities" are not just in IT, but what you describe is exactly what happens. I worked a night job with a guy who was working with the state during the day. He said that when he started at the state office he was a real go-getter, trying to get noticed. One of the older guys in the shop took him aside and said something along the lines of it being a good idea for him to quit trying to stand out. "You're making us look bad." He took that as a he-he ha-ha kind of comment but then realized it was made in deadly earnestness. He would have been shown the door on some pretext if he kept it up.

There's also cursed cliquishness. I've lost a job for nothing more than not being part of the clique. Now the skeptical would ask "Were you possibly self-sabotaging by being the unfriendly computer guy, telling boorish jokes, acting creepy, muttering to yourself about your stapler, etc?" Those are the questions usually asked when someone says he's being conspired against. Nope. The department I was in was small, all women, and known for cliquish behavior. After I was hired I found out that the position was a revolving door. The clique decided they didn't like me and invented enough infractions until I was shown the door. My sister has seen the kind of craziness where one woman will see another as competition for the affections of another man in the department and will work to get her fired to have a better shot, even if the odds of the guy actually showing interest are minute! Not that men are innocent of such douchebaggery, no no no.

Something I've seen in many places is someone just deciding they don't like another person and riding their butt until they either quit or get fired. In IT positions, it's easy to make another person look or feel stupid, especially when the job requires specific information related to the organization that cannot be looked up in any book but must be shared by the guy who hates the other guy. He doesn't share, the newer hire looks like he's not keeping up with his duties, and everything goes downhill from there. Setup a hostile work environment and I guarantee good techs will not even be able to remember their names, let alone their computer knowledge. Anyone could be made to look poor in such a place. And if the reason why the senior guy hates you is because he's an entrenched mediocrity and scared of your skills, you'll likely be fired unless management is already sick of the senior guy.  

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I had a similar situation at my previous job.  It was not an IT-job, it was an Admin job.  I was hired to be a second Exec Asst in the department.  The other Exec Asst is very assertive/aggressive and I'm not that way - this was probably the biggest problem.  My knowledge of all things MS Office was far greater than the other admin. All the time she was telling me how she wanted to "groom" me to be the "go to" person in the department, but everything she ever said to me was more of a left-handed put down than anything else.  I was hired because of my PC skills and admin experience (20 + years), but she made me feel like this was my first job.  It was terrible.  It was no secret that her PC skills were not as good as mine - people she was supposed to support would come to me to get their Powerpoints or Visio documents done - correctly and in a timely manner and I always delivered.  The group was very clique-ish and the other Admin would try to give me the impression that she was my "friend," but I never bought it because I saw the kinds of things she did - backstabbing, making fun behind someone else's back, etc.  I was probably doomed from the get-go, because I do think that my being there might have intimidated her (though I never knowingly did anything to do this to her).  Not only that, she and the Management Team of the department all hung out together socially.  If I had wanted to speak to my boss about some of the issues with her, I'm not sure they would have taken it seriously because she is their "friend...."  It got worse and worse then finally I got my one year review - on the last day of the two-week notice I had given about a week before my one year anniversary.  I'm now in more of an IT-job and the company for which I work is much better.  I know it could have been partly my fault (I can be a pain in the A$$ at times and I know that), but I've never worked with anyone quite like that before - and hopefully never again.  smile

JoAnn smile

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:

"You're making us look bad."

I had something like that happen. My supervisor (with 20 years experience) and his buddy of six years couldn't install a program. They were on it all day. I did it in about two hours.

Sometimes it does work the other way. I had a good reputation at my hotel. It was partially because I corrected other people's mistakes. I think management did notice that, as I got away with some things that were big mistakes.

I read some stuff lately about Pete Best. If you don't know, he was the original drummer for the Beatles. He was apparently the most popular of them as well. This apparently the reason he was fired, the women liked him too much.

Quote:

The department I was in was small, all women, and known for cliquish behavior.

I had a situation in which I was the only single male in a group of married men.

Quote:

My sister has seen the kind of craziness where one woman will see another as competition for the affections of another man in the department and will work to get her fired to have a better shot, even if the odds of the guy actually showing interest are minute! Not that men are innocent of such douchebaggery, no no no.

Oh, I believe that. Women treat women much worse than men treat women. No man is stupid enough to try to get a woman in his office nowadays anyway.

Quote:

Setup a hostile work environment and I guarantee good techs will not even be able to remember their names, let alone their computer knowledge.

The main problem is that many IT environments are hostile environments. When I worked in the hotel business, the guy who trained me on the desk was a big a--hole. However, he was a professional. He knew that his job was to train me. He did his job.
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:


The main problem is that many IT environments are hostile environments. When I worked in the hotel business, the guy who trained me on the desk was a big a--hole. However, he was a professional. He knew that his job was to train me. He did his job.

My first job out of high school was like that. I worked in a restaurant. The manager was extremely knowledgeable in all things concerning the business and if he told you something, you couldn't argue with him because he really was right. But the way he told you, ugh! He could tell you to eat a juicy steak in such a fashion you'd sooner throw it back in his face. He maintained that it wasn't his job to be camp counselor and make people feel good, if someone needs hollerin' at, he's gonna do some hollerin'. Again, ugh. People don't work that way. I think it's actually easier to work under a yelling idiot than a yelling professional because at least with the idiot, you know he's an idiot and can laugh it off. When the professional points out a genuine mistake and does so like he's auditioning for Full Metal Jacket, the embarrassment quickly curdles into rage.

Now if the guy was just a little gruff but told you what he expected and rewarded you for meeting those expectations, all would have been fine. But that's just the way he was. Funny story about the guy, one of the other cooks came in and said "Man, I'd just been to the liquor store across the street. The guy sees my hat and goes 'Oh, you work at that restaurant across the street? Yeah, the manager comes in here all the time, buys a fifth of vodka dependable as clockwork.'" A fifth a day? His liver must be pickled.  

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

No man is stupid enough to try to get a woman in his office nowadays anyway.

Funny...that's where I met my wife.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator  

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:

No man is stupid enough to try to get a woman in his office nowadays anyway.

Funny...that's where I met my wife.

Funny....That's where I met the woman I'm marrying in 9 days smile

Also the girl I was seeing before I met my soon to be wife smile  

--Dan
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Good luck to you both. But it's also where many have met their doom due to the politics of office romance. At my current place, a man lost his job when he took a flirty relationship more seriously than she did -- but that story can vary depending on who you talk to. The long and the short of it was that this relationship turned into a kerfluffle that got him fired.  

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote:

But it's also where many have met their doom due to the politics of office romance. At my current place, a man lost his job when he took a flirty relationship more seriously than she did -- but that story can vary depending on who you talk to.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a performance review, reprimand, write-up, termination, or court case. I also had a case where a woman complained about something I had said--I stopped talking to her. Then, she complained that I wasn't talking to her.

I've considered keeping a voice recorder in my pocket and recording everything I say during the typical work day. That way, if something like this comes up, I hope I could use it as protection. I always know that the truth is on my side.

One self-help guru I know tells a story about how he got in trouble for simply asking a woman what she was doing for the weekend. The woman construed this as asking for a date. He had no interest in this woman.

My policy on office relationships is that I will consider one only if the woman initiates it. I will have her swear that nobody else in the office knows about it.
 

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

Quote (shoalcreek):

...I will have her swear that nobody else in the office knows about it.

We all know that a woman cannot keep a secret   wink


Stubnski

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

(OP)
As soon as I think of a good comeback, I'll let you know.

RE: Dropping IT - What would you do?

I've got one Dollie, but I ain't tellin'

~LFCfan

 

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