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What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)
7

What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
I'm in a very small software company (bout 5 employees, James(CEO), Ranee(CEO's wife, and Customer Service Rep), Josh(VP & developer), Shavonne(developer), and me Karl( Programmer/Analyst according to my title)

I'm the newest employee by about 6 months now.
right now I am studying for Visual Interdev 6 certification, the only main reference used is Master Web applications with visual interdev 6, and I just taken the cert exam today, which i failed by 50 points, he's going to have me take it again next week, but throught out the month, his additued takes any small thing, and turned it into a big negative thing againts himself, for example today, I am leaving 15 Mins earlier than I normally do (but its also leaving 15 mins later than the core hours required) says I'm leaving early, and I said yes, but he start saying that then I dont feel that there is anything more I need to learn then, and I should consider even comming in tomarrow, If i feel i dont think I can learn any more, all this over planning on leaving the office 15 mins early, and I walk to and from work, 30 min walk.  There has been several other events like this, in which I never talked back, and always tried to avoid confrontations. Is there any tips to work around or avoid these type of bosses.

(another thing is I am the only employee that knows VC++, and has used more development tools together than the other staffs, according to rannee I learn as fast as the technology moves, in otherwords, I'm the only one that goes out learns the material as it appears on the market)

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

kb244,

Sounds like you are young and probably will not like my advice, but here it goes.

You need to work on your presentation at the office.  First off, if your spelling is anything like what you post here, what you say may make all the sense in the world but you make people "slug" through what you are trying to get across.  You need to communicate more easily.

If you work for a boss who likes you to be there until 5:30, than just do it.  If they want you to make coffee because you are the new guy, just do it.  Keep your mouth shut, build your marketable skills, and when you are done learning from them update your resume and move on.

Mentally always work for yourself.  Hopefully some day you really will.  :-)

Ghost

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Karl,

As Ghost says, keep your head down and tow the line. It is not fun being the new guy / most junior in the company. Most of us have been there...

Work hard, check your work (no-one likes to be shown a mistake they made, least of all by their boss) and do EVERYTHING the boss or his wife ask.

Above all, learn everything you can, get that certification and don't worry! You work for one guy who seems to hate you for a few years, then you get a new job with someone who is fantastic. Swings and roundabouts.

Don't forget though - you are working for someone who sees you as 20% of HIS company. If YOU go home before he does, you aren't as committed to his company as he is. Therefore he is not getting the most out of you and it is his neck on the line.

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
did I mention least 6 people quit before I finally settled in, at one point of time I had to carry the task of 3 people cuz 3 quit within 3 months i was here, but thinks for the advise anyways, and he for some reason is in a much happier mood this morning(probally only hits him randomly)
company has existed for a little over 4 years.

-Karl

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Karl,

He probably read your post and realized he was being a jerk.  :-)

Ghost

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
naw he wouldnt goto these sites anyhow, I think he was just agitated about things, talked to josh, he said like some of you said, to just kind of blow it off, if i just keep working everything should be fine.  Oh also I dont want to upset him, and I try not to , but I'll just keep an eye out, today I got here before 8am probally wont leave til 6pm, also the CEO has put alot into me, when he found out my family was moving to michigan, he gave me a salary raise, and is currently paying for a new appartment that he leased for me. also paying for my certifications and what not, if only Microsofts books intended for the exams were more of a match of quality. We're getting two more new employees soon, one of them used to work here , and another is going to be brand new to the company, So least I'll have some way to present myself in gaining some form of senoirity.  I can probally understand the preasure since I am the only one who does more languages than just VB and ASP, so I'm depended on for making componets and tools for the other programmers, despite the good things that come out of all this personal-wise is rather uncomfortable, I know they want to help me succeed, but I dont know where exactly I stand in the company, They all tell me I'm smarter than I give myself credit for, but basicaly this is a new situation because it'll be the first time I'll be away from my family.  Thanks for the advise, and humor hehe.

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

The key is not to take it personally. You're probably doing an excellent job, but some people have bad brain chemicals or bad marriages, some have low blood sugar, some are alcoholic, some are just socially immature. It really isn't personal, although they  may think it is! As you've said, he probably treated all the people who quit the same way. Just make all your decisions about how to act based on "What are my alternatives?" and as soon as you find something better, go.

BTW I second the vote on the writing/spelling thing. If you can learn the syntax and spelling of multiple computer languages, I'm sure you can do the same with English. Try Strunk & White's tiny classic. Poor spelling, grammar and punctuation affect people the same way they do computers. You can get by with errors, but after a critical number of errors, it alters people's perceptions of you, with unpredicatable results.

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
Thats the funny thing though, I am alot better when it comes to writing multiple language codes, than I am with standard gramatical english (if you think about it code language is actually easier to write and keep track of than english since it has to be done a certain way or it doesnt work) But um, thinks for noticing anyhow.
two reasons though
1) I type too fast (last tested 80 wpm, about 50wpm correctly)
2) I've never been all that great when it comes to spelling, Since I am hearing impaired I did not typically get the spoken+written together, thus growing up I've usally written words the way I felt they were heard (for example dropping of ends of words, etc)

But I've been very good at communicating with numerous people, in person that is, but it doesnt help when I feel presure, so if theres not much anti-social pressure I communicate rather well.

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Of course there's way fewer words in any computer language than human language, that's why it's so much easier. But if you think the automated feedback is helpful to learning computer languages, you might want to try using a grammar and spelling checker in a word-processing application, as it will flag you just like a code error on questionable spelling and syntax in English.

That's great if people tell you that you communicate well in person. I wonder if that is due, not so much to your skill in communicating, but your directness. Lots of people (like your boss) have agendas and that muck up their communications. You're wonderfully direct, but you could also put a bit more effort in your presentation.

Do you re-read and edit your communications at least once or twice, trying to imagine how the reader will perceive it? There's no need to be in such a hurry that you key 80 wpm if you can only key 50 wpm accurately. Often, " less is more". Take all the time you need to think through what you're writing. It builds self-discipline and broadens the mind to work at seeing the world from another person's point of view. If we just let our thoughts spill out of our mouths or onto a keyboard in a stream of consciousness way, it sort of says to the listener, "Come over here and talk to me," instead of "I'm coming over to see you."

Best of luck with your situation. I know you'll do well.

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Follow Elizabeth's advice.
We don't represent ourselves with our intentions. To the world, we only exist as a result of our actions. We are only what we we appear to be.




RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
Yes I know, more or less "actions speak louder than words"

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

2
When I started with my company I was employee #6.  We're now at 120.  Neither of the founders could give you directions to Earth.  One was lost in the clouds and the other (call him Jekyll-Hide) was out of his mind.  Everyone here has made excellent points and I'm going to second them.

As Ghost said, don't work for someone else, work for yourself.  The way I phrase this is that I don't work for anyone, I only work with people.  Get a firm idea in your own mind of what your goals are and work toward them.  Your job is not your life, it should only be a tool to help you achieve what you want in life.

Decide now (but don't tell anyone else) whether you're with this company to make a career out of it, or to learn some skills and move on, then work in that direction.  In the meantime, on a day to day basis, do what you're directed to do, take pride in your work and correspondingly, do it well.  I've done plenty of projects that I didn't give a s**t about, but still knocked myself out and did a good job because of pride in my work.

If the abuse gets too deep, pretend you're an actor playing the role of an abused employee.  If this guy does it to everybody, keep that in mind as well, it's not personal so don't take it that way.  Shrug it off, and get back to work, always moving directly or indirectly toward your long term goal.

Jeff
masterracker@hotmail.com

Of all the things I've lost in life, I miss my mind the most ...

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Jeff makes yet another excellent set of points. I just got chewed out AGAIN for doing what I consider to be an excellent job. I work hard, I am committed and I do a good job.

I'm now going to continue doing a good job as I always do. I'll still be committed. I'll still do everything to the best of my ability.

I'll also look around for a new job...

This time I'm just here to learn (I learned how to get abused). Maybe next time will be for life.

Zelandakh@zelandakh.co.uk

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

kb244,

I think the first thing you need to determine is, whether your boss is just blowing steam, or if your boss is a nasty person that you won't be able to please.

If he's just a hot head from time to time, ignore it and go on. If he's nasty and he can't be pleased, you have to determine the benefits from working for the company.

In either event you might want to begin looking for a new job. DO NOT LOOK FOR A NEW JOB AFTER YOU'VE REACHED THAT "I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE" point. The object of a job search is to find another job that will provide room for advancement. Lateral moves should be avoided whenever possible. You might find that you can do better, or might find that you have the best job for your skill level.

Communication skills are important, especially when it comes to writing a resume and coverletter. Find someone who can proof read for you. Use [internet] resources for, writing, spelling, word choice, grammer and usage assistance. Find ways to compensate for your hearing impairment.

Gary (akbryer)
Gary_Bryer@Vanguard.com



Good deeds do not go unrewarded!

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
Well one of the main benefits I get from this job is the ability to learn new concepts and new languages, and advance in the languages I already know, however this job has no benefits whatsoever , other than the fact I got a raise, my own appartment, and utilities paid, when he found outI was leaving about 2 months ago, this means I have no medical insurrance to cover my hearing aids themselves, I'm still saving up to pay off the ones I am using now. but I did recently get some medical insurrance which I am covered until I am 23, for the past week and a half, my main priority as said to me by my CEO is to learn, we are both working towards this certification, I failed the test by only a few point last week (which could explain his little bit of steamblowing late that same day) however he's letting me study further to retake it, I think back and I try to think how could this benefit the company, it doesnt really benefit the company, benefits me more likely, since I can take it with me whenever I leave the company, heres my other question, I'll list what i'm being paid, plus the requirment, and any benefits

Title : Programmer/Analyst
   Tools utilized during the job : VC++ mostly for means of creating complex internet related activeX controls for use in the VB programs that the rest of the team develops
   VB I often help create many of the Visual Basic controls that were required in the project as a whole, I also work in VB so that I can create an example ofhow the VC++ Control should be used in VB.
   HTML/Scripting I also have a task of handleing one of the customer's website whenever he needs changes, addition, and deletions of products removed from the page
   Hardware maintenance : I make sure most of the software works properly, backups are ran regularly, and that all hardware is noted and placed in the inventory as well as swaping parts around to make more expensive and useful parts of the computer placed in computers that'll be used more often.
    Analyst : offer sugestions to problems, and help solve general computer related problems in the office

current pay effective as of the 19th
30K salary, (12$/hr for the past 6 months until my next paycheck)

following benefits included:
certification being paid for.
my own appartment (as of a month ago)
utilities paid on the appartment (except for phone, cable, internet, the extras that I fill in for)

the salary requires that I work 44 hours a week(no overtime is paid, and not allowed to work more than 50 a week)

So in your opinion how good does this sound, am I basically underpaid for the multitude of tasks I am responsible for, also I think he's wanting to get me into Java soon so we can start porting almost everything we have for netscape users.

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

KB - I submitted a post yesterday but it doesn't seem to have made it (??). Basically you have to stay and do your time. People in computers often feel that they don't have to do their "time". Most jobs are not that great when you first start. Give it another year or two and you will be in a great position.

Your with a small company - are they going places? You could be in priume position...

As for they hours - welcome to the real world. I have to work on average 12 hours a day for no overtime....

Cal


RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Yikes.

I'm doing a 55 hour week as a standard, and more if situations arise. Those extras are unpaid. I provide telephone support to the company out of hours until 10pm even if I am on holiday.

I have 15 years experience in computers, plenty of management experience, I am head of department, most of the way through my MCSE and have decent knowledge of around 50 applications. The buck stops with me for anything IT in the company. Servers, desktops, Internet, Intranet, Database programming, Firewall, Mac, PC, Linux, budgetary control etc, project management and all other aspects of IT.

I make about the same as you. I have to fund my own home, "utilities", certification.

I'm more than 10 years older than you too. Maybe you aren't doing as badly as you think...

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

I think 30k a year for people with experience is under market value. I don't have stats to back it up, but I have an inkling. There are many variables, including region, number of jobs available, number of qualified candiates, etc. Have you checked the I/T job market lately?

Gary (akbryer)
Gary_Bryer@Vanguard.com



Good deeds do not go unrewarded!

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
no I havent, at the time I first got this job no other company seemed to want anyone at entry level, plus not having any professional experience at the time.

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

I think 30k/year for someone who is under 23, no college, and learning on their first job is excellent.  Throw in the fact you are hearing impaired and don't respond will to anti-social pressure just builds the case even more for you to sit tight.

Work very hard and learn for atleast 2-3 more years before even considering looking around.  (Americans tend to be less mature in these things than our non-American counterparts.)

Sounds to me like you are still accelerating with your career where you are at.  Sit tight.

Ghost

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Of course, the apartment, utilities and other benefits are nice perks. I my opinion, medical insurance is probably the most important benefit you can get. Your position does not sound bad. The hours are normal.

Can you find another position where you can earn enough money to pay for the apt, and the utilities, have disposable income, better benefits (esp medical), and thsat will provide a job atmospher, with advancement opportunities? I think its possible.

I agree with whoever indicated that project leadership is a requirement in many I/T depts; but, there are so many different types of organizations, with more types of needs than I could ever imagine.

I think the key to good job search is to research the marketplace, including the use of fee-paid placement agencies. Research the companies that you think that you might want to work for. Compare your skills against the skill necessary to fill the high-end positions. It will take time to conduct the research, but I think its worth the time and the effort.

Later.

Gary (akbryer)
Gary_Bryer@Vanguard.com



Good deeds do not go unrewarded!

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

I may be from the old school where you have to pay your dues.  But, telling a guy appears to have a lot to learn in his first job to go looking equates to telling a boxer in the ring that there are bikini clad women in the front row to watch.

If he doesn't have his head in the game at work for a few years (assuming his boss is reasonable and he is still learning) without looking around he'll get his head handed to him.  Advancement does not come without discipline.

Don't mean to get into an argument here.  Just trying to point out it is a misconception to think everyone should ALWAYS be looking.

Why is it the recruiters want you to churn your job every 3 years until you are 40?  Because they make more money on you.  Than at 40 the calls don't come in as often....

The choice of your job is not unlike any other investment you make.  Pick one for the right reasons, and don't bail out at the first little dip.  :-)

Ghost

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Ghost, I can't argue with you. Your points are valid and, really, should be stressed. I think I differ with you about one point. Looking (researching the market) does not hurt. In fact, looking will reveal much about your current status. Are you qualified to move on to more responsibility? Are you qualified to earn more money? What  should you learn to move. Looking helps you consciuosly decide how to guide your career. I don't see looking as a problem.

Gary (akbryer)
Gary_Bryer@Vanguard.com



Good deeds do not go unrewarded!

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
as for as the comment of

"Work very hard and learn for atleast 2-3 more years before even considering looking around.  (Americans tend to be less mature in these things than our non-American counterparts.)
"
the bold portion I dont know If I can agree with that, I myself have not always Lived in the US, and I have moved 22 times now, due to growing up in a military family. However I can freely admit to downsides of this country as well as all the issue, but to make a stereotypical statement about a country as a whole, especially one that is mixed with thousands of stereotypical cultures as it already is just doesnt seem to be very accurate.

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Karl,

Take the good advice I give and leave behind what you think is bad.  It is only my opinion.  That is what these forums are for.  At more than twice your age, and having dealt internationally in the business world for most my life, I would say my thinking on the American business stereotype is not uninformed.

Possibly curbing your quick and emotional reactions at the office like you have made here could also be an area for your personal improvement.  Developing a thick skin for constructive criticism is essential to having a healthy career.

Please don't reply to this post as it will only serve to prove my point further.  (Knowing what not to type in an e-mail is sometimes more important than what gets typed in an e-mail.)

Ghost

ps  By the way, I am a US citizen.  :-)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
I seem to have lost your point, but if its anything like the the original post you gave, basically says I'm starting out young and I should stick with the job I am doing now to absorb the knowledge and feel of a professional enviroment in order to further myself professionally and intelectually, and not for what I just "feel" like doing.

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Karl,

Yep.  You got it.  Nicely summarized.  :-)

Good luck.

Ghost

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

I agree with Gary. "Looking" is a reality check.

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
Based on what you guys have seen here , what are some carreer options you think I might look at a few years down the road from now?

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

I think the point Ghost was trying to put across is that the American culture is the "bigger, better deal" syndrome which means that there is a faster turn around from job to job / company to company. The Germans tend to get into one company and stick with it until they run out of career path completely, in England it is similar although not quite as long. How many times have you seen someone receive their gold watch for 40 years with the same company?

The point of this thread is that you boss was behaving in a way that rankled with you. You felt this put you in a bad light and that you and he should part company as quickly as possible.

Look around by all means, keep on learning and control that yearning to react to others with a knee jerk reaction that puts people's backs up. There is an excellent Yorkshire saying "Hear all, See all, Say Nowt (nothing)". Listen to everything people say, watch what people are doing, think about it, digest it and only reply if you have something constructive to add.

With your experience of C, VB, HTML and ASP, added to your InterDev, I suggest you build as much as you can to really understand all of them (rather than just "messed around with") and then you could be a seriously competitive web site designer.

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Sit tight and learn - I work in England and if I had earnt the money you get (plus the apartment) when I was your age, I would have been very happy.

You seem to be getting exposure to all different languages - something that may not happen if you move to another company. However, the down side is that you seem to be the lead developer (am I wrong?) and at your age, if you will excuse me, will not have a full idea of programming. You could do with working with more senior developers to broaden your knowledge.

Leave when you have learned all you can from your current job, you'll know when that has happened yourself...

Cal


RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
I in a way would be the one with the lead responsibility , but Josh and James comes up with all the ideas and how they want things done, they're the idea dreamers, but far as any coding goes, I guess you could so I am at the least second from the top on the developer line of the company. (And btw I agree with both Zelan and Cal, I've been to germany for 3 years so I know what you are talking about, england I havent had much experience, other than watching british channels when living in germany)

Karl
kb244@kb244.8m.com

Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Karl,

In addition to the guidance that everyone else has provided you with here, take in to consideration that your boss may have been just doing that as well. Giving you advice that is.
When I read what your boss said to you, it gave me a hint of him giving you a push to motivate yourself and stay a while longer to study or just work with the software you were taking the certification for. Just my 2 cents bud .

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

     For one, confront the abusive person about the unacceptable behaviour, this will give you 30 days probation to correct any differences, it could be a reaction to bad chemistry in both parties.

     Second, I have been in the technical world for many years, and I didnt see any errors in your communication skills, but as you, I chose to focus on computer language more than english perhaps.

     Always study on your own time, help them achive their goals while on their time only, there is a noticable difference in people who study while they should be working.

     Someone with your skills would be billed out at 10 times what they are paying, let them treat you a bit better, if you do not enjoy your work, look for somewhere that you can, life is to short to be around abusive people.

     Take charge and do what they signed you on for, find out what they want you to do, and keep that in front of you all the time, if they are growing, that will grow also.

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Collectively, all the above advice is well worth taking.  One thing to bear in mind is that you may well be a "green weenie" - a relatively inexperienced worker.  But this does not mean that you have to put up with abuse, certainly the half-dozen before you did not.  But as a green guy, there are places that tend to hire green, but treat them well, realistically assessing the productivity and need for direction, as well as providing a learning environment that encourages people to stay.  Some even go so far as ask for "gentlemen's agreements", such as "I'll pay for your next cert if you stick around for an extra year, etc."  But you can probably get the same pay (which seems to be OK) but find a much better environment.
I am not familiar enough with the difference between the UK and USA, but I would guess that Americans, in general find it easier to switch jobs, and may tend to do so more often, possibly for non-job reasons (different climate, better social life in a different city, etc.)  But this is only a guess, and only a generalization.
I don't know if you have a degree, but my experience has been that most of the places with abusive managers have been places that do not require degrees.  (Another generalization, and America-based).  You may want to consider getting a degree at night, or on the Internet, etc.  This would probably make you more marketable to more firms.  Perhaps someone from the UK can shed some more light in this area?

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Karl:

For your qualifications, you should be making close to twice what you are.

For your age, expect people will want to pay you what you're currently making.

I moved to the US several years ago, and am now making almost three times (including exchange rates) what I was making in Canada.

At the same time, I've also gone from a 'jack of all trades' to a hardcore RPG programmer, and now back to systems analysis - sort of a roundabout way to get here, and definitely not the beaten path.

I too went through some abusive treatment - when my daughter was born almost 2 years ago, she had a brain hemmorhage - and after being told to "Do whatever you need, xxxx, to make sure your daughter is okay," I was given a written reprimand for spending too much time on the phone with both my wife and the hospital.

Just to muddy the waters, I'll mention that I'm also only 24 - a year older than you.  I happen to make considerably more than you, too - It took me a year of searching both on my own and with headhunters to find my current position.

Yes, you do have to pay your dues.  Yes, you do need to eat a bit of crow.  Just be careful how far you let them go - my previous employer treated me horribly, up to and including the day I left for this job.  At the same time, don't be froggy and jump at the slightest reprimand.  They're well within their rights to verbally put it to you if you're not putting in the hours that you know you're supposed to.

I just realized something, too..  this company is paying for an apartment for you?  I'd suggest that you're making much more than $30k, then, since you don't have to shell out for your own place and utilities.

Gary's right - you should be making more, cash-wise, but only if you're paying for your own apartment.

Ghost...  You make that much and you're the head of the department?  Geez man, that's rough.  Either it's a small company, or you need to polish your resume.

I like where I am.  Good pay, fantastic environment, and great surroundings for my kids to grow up in.  If you don't like where you are, change it.  If you're happy, stay.

Just bear in mind that there is much more than just a paycheck from any job you fill - if I had a work environment like my current one, in my LAST job... I would probably never have left, even though it was almost half the pay.

Darryl

Darryl Hadfield
hadfield@mail.com

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
Some touch up on such an old posted topic , oh also I'm 19 not 23. Also The company is paying for the apartment and utilities, but I had to shell out enough money to pay for my hearing aids (which has me very close to the hole this month on other payments) also within the last couple weeks I've come to understand his frustration, our company contracts for the ESC (Employment Security Commission) now over there, the state employee's whose been assigned to help us on some projects, are a couple of die hard VBers, who wanted to take a knack at Internet programming, needless to say they are very poor at what they do, and put a lot of work on my co-worker who is always at the state location, they have a certain inside policy of "we mess with only our code, and you are to fix both our code and your code" Since I don't have 2 years experience(their contract) I cannot be at the state location to help my coworker with these things, as I am to be here at the wake forest location working on other stuff, and helping him occasionally over the phone, My CEO had have problems with some of the employee's there, it would seem most of them are trying to trip us, by making bogus request and so forth (these die hard VBers would really like their hands on this project, so they tend to try to trip us as much as they can so they can make us forfeit this major project)

I'm curious if all state employee's have no regards for contractors and etc, also if I were to go to the state for a job, I'd be making half of what I'm making now (which is one reason why I don't want to be state employed) Also having a baby himself for a while now , he's been spending less time here and at the state, but that's understandable he has a kid and so forth, but the State is really busting us over the head about this and that, dumb thing is that at the meetings my coworker goes to , they're always talking about color scheme, etc, looks, rather than addressing the problem, while the state employee's are "yea we can do that, Oh that's easy!" then when meetings over they tell my coworker "is that enough work for you?"

so you can see where the aggravation was funneling down from.

Karl
kb244@kb244.com

Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)
http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=629151

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Rotorhead,

Never said how much I was making in any post.  You must have misread...  Not a big deal, but you named me in your last post.

Ghost

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Ghost: Sorry, I misread.. .it was Zelandakh who said he made about the same as Karl.

Karl:

19, not 23?  Count your lucky stars.  That leads me to think  you're in an entry level position (regardless of the level of your work)  As I said before, expect to pay your dues, and it'll come back to you in time.  I'm a Systems Analyst/Project leader for a division of a Fortune 500 now...  and I'm only 24.  I make considerably more than $30k per year, but then again, I've got a very unique skillset (or so I'm told) that includes Windows programming, AS/400 (RPG/400 and RPGIV) programming, as well as network administration.  It also helps that I grew up being something of a prodigy - I've been billing hours since I was 12.

Keep your chin up - things do get better.

Darryl Hadfield
hadfield@mail.com

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
I might add that the Lead-Developer I mentioned long ago in these posts, was yelled out the door by my CEO (not sure if I mentioned that earlier) but in any case, it's just me here at the Home site, and my coworker down at the state site, and the CEo and his wife are usally um... well I never know, they're sometimes at home, they sometimes drop in, they sometimes go to state, and other times I dont know.

So I've been alone in the office most of the time for almost a month or more now.

Karl
kb244@kb244.com

Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)
http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=629151

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Thanks rotor - I had forgotten that... now I'm really unhappy. I have decided that after 4 and a half years as IT Manager of a multi national company, making little more than Karl , being over 30, with my own place and a family I am not doing things right. I'm resigning next month and then I'm off contracting - I got my MCSE and I'm going to make some real money while I'm still young enough to get out of bed early enough to put in the hours...

Karl - if you have been alone for a month, you'll start rambling and talking to yourself!

Zel
zel@zelandakh.co.uk

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Zel: Heck, you'll start rambling anyway, nevermind whether or not you have to spend time alone in the office!

If I were you, I'd look at a visa for the US.  The IT Market over here is booming like no-one's business - I'm actually a canadian, working here under a TN Visa (although my green card is pending, since my wife and children are american).  If you can tolerate the changes in environment (which might be difficult due to your family connections), the IT world here holds a wealth of opportunity for those with the skills. I make a good wage, and that's just my daytime office hours - I also have a booming cottage industry consulting business that does fairly well, too.

If you go it on your own, best of luck to you - sounds to me like you will!

Cheers,

 [sig]<p>Darryl Hadfield<br><a href=mailto:hadfield@mail.com>hadfield@mail.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br> [/sig]

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

I would like to point out that you all seem well off, I am from England, I would love to be making as much as this guy, I have management experience as well as many IT qualifications.  Maybe you should leave and get a crummy job for a while, you might then appreciate what you have now!! [sig][/sig]

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
hehe been there done that welsh, I have worked minimum wage before, through highschool and all, but the thing is, I try to compare myself to the average pay/benefit that someone of my qualification would, statitically get. i mean I'm only going to complain, if i'm always comming short of cash, I managed to get my hearing aids paid off, which means I'll have to make double payment on the car, cable etc as soon as I get my next pay check. Also if I want to save some money I've been eating the caned goods and ramen noodles for dinner and what not (ramen noodles is good :) ), also might sell some things on Ebay that I dont even use hehe.  It's interesting tho, Statistically last year, the US has been considered the hardest working country, (Japan used to be number one for that position for a while)

Karl
kb244@kb244.com

Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)
http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=629151

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

Karl, count your blessings. You are making more than me, I work in the USA and I have been programming for 23 years.

And I fully appreciate your comment about Ramen noodles. They are good. An aquired taste that is a little hard to shake through thick and thin.

Hang on, guys. Prosperity is right around the corner.



A plain black box
Don't sit down. It's time to dig another one.

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

You said you were the new guy....but are you new to IT and just tryn to get your foot in the door?

If you've got valuable skills, "shake the dust from your feet" and move on.

He wants to play a power game with you.

I learned a long time ago, no matter what your skill level or your career or your background, 'you teach people how to treat you, but how you let them treat you."

(But if you're knew to all this and trying to get your feet in the IT door, stay there, deal with it til you get some "market powe".)

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

(OP)
I'm new to the IT field in an professional enviroment(not new by personal experience), as far as being the new guy, I am currently the ONLY guy in this office other than the CEO and his wife. Other than a co-worker who works down at the customer site, but that's about it.

Karl
kb244@kb244.com

Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)
http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=629151

RE: What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO)

You have to watch out where everybody's related... u end up being and outsider... twice...

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