I am kinda a novice in webpage making and just use programs such as Flash and Photoshop to create my websites, however do to the limitations in both, I am unable to do various thigs that I want. So, I am curious what software do the "professionals" use to create webpages? Or are a majority of them coded by hand?
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Recommended Method to create a web site 1
- Thread starter slycer
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Real pros do it by hand!
Certainly, most (X)HTML, CSS and JavaScript will be coded by hand using some sort of text editor (usually with syntax highlighting - I use TextPad).
With server-parsed code it depends. PHP is generally coded by hand, Java is often a mix of by-hand and Java IDEs (such as NetBeans), .Net and ASP will usually be developed in a Microsoft IDE.
There are a number of issues with developing (X)HTML using WYSIWYG editors:[ul]
[li]they often produced outdated/invalid code (such as the 'border' attribute on images)[/li]
[li]the code tends not to be cross-browser compatible[/li]
[li]the development environment doesn't take into account varying environments such as different screen sizes, colours, and assistive tecnology such as screen-readers
[/li][/ul]
The last isn't so much a limitation of WYSIWYG as it is a limitation of the user...however, the WYSIWYG encourages this kind of thinking, but on the web What You See Isn't Always What A User Will Get. (WYSIAWAUWG (c) manarth 2006)
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Marcus
better questions get better answers - faq581-3339
accessible web design - zioncore.com
Certainly, most (X)HTML, CSS and JavaScript will be coded by hand using some sort of text editor (usually with syntax highlighting - I use TextPad).
With server-parsed code it depends. PHP is generally coded by hand, Java is often a mix of by-hand and Java IDEs (such as NetBeans), .Net and ASP will usually be developed in a Microsoft IDE.
There are a number of issues with developing (X)HTML using WYSIWYG editors:[ul]
[li]they often produced outdated/invalid code (such as the 'border' attribute on images)[/li]
[li]the code tends not to be cross-browser compatible[/li]
[li]the development environment doesn't take into account varying environments such as different screen sizes, colours, and assistive tecnology such as screen-readers
[/li][/ul]
The last isn't so much a limitation of WYSIWYG as it is a limitation of the user...however, the WYSIWYG encourages this kind of thinking, but on the web What You See Isn't Always What A User Will Get. (WYSIAWAUWG (c) manarth 2006)
---
Marcus
better questions get better answers - faq581-3339
accessible web design - zioncore.com
For somebody at a begginer level i think jumping straight into Hand coding is a little tricky, unless you have plenty of time on your hands.
as for a Wysiwyg programe, i would opt (if you have the money) for the Macromedia products, you mention you already use Flash, so the interface for the other Macromedia products should be easy for you to understand.
Marcomedia Dreamweaver is going to be your best bet at this point in time, it is a good learning tool aswell, you can create a little site using the WYSIWYG interface using the tools and then switch the to code view to understand how the Tags and Attributes work.
Rob
as for a Wysiwyg programe, i would opt (if you have the money) for the Macromedia products, you mention you already use Flash, so the interface for the other Macromedia products should be easy for you to understand.
Marcomedia Dreamweaver is going to be your best bet at this point in time, it is a good learning tool aswell, you can create a little site using the WYSIWYG interface using the tools and then switch the to code view to understand how the Tags and Attributes work.
Rob
If you don't learn the fundamentals when you start, when will you learn them? I'd suggest always starting with hand-coding, and moving to wysiwyg later if you want to (personally, I've never felt the need).
Get yourself a good book (I like the O'Reilly ones, but YMMV), or try
-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd
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If you ever want to understand HTML I think it is better to start by coding by hand.
The main problem with hand coding is typos, memorizing tags, missing closing tags etc. To this end I developed, for my own use, a live cheatsheet. You may copy it if you wish.
It is at
Good luck!
Clive
The main problem with hand coding is typos, memorizing tags, missing closing tags etc. To this end I developed, for my own use, a live cheatsheet. You may copy it if you wish.
It is at
Good luck!
Clive
For what it's worth, I'd advocate using a WYSIWYG editor such as Dreamweaver but ONLY if you keep the code view on and use it to understand what's going on.
That way you can gradually move towards "pure" handcoding.
Once you've got the very basics of HTML down then I would also suggest reading up on the "theory" behind building websites. Why so many of us harp on about "Web standards", why use CSS over table layouts etc.
Books like, "Designing with Web Standards", "Web Standards Solutions" and "Bullet Proof Web Design" are some good starting points.
Foamcow Heavy Industries - Web design and ranting
Buy Languedoc wines in the UK
That way you can gradually move towards "pure" handcoding.
Once you've got the very basics of HTML down then I would also suggest reading up on the "theory" behind building websites. Why so many of us harp on about "Web standards", why use CSS over table layouts etc.
Books like, "Designing with Web Standards", "Web Standards Solutions" and "Bullet Proof Web Design" are some good starting points.
Foamcow Heavy Industries - Web design and ranting
Buy Languedoc wines in the UK
sorry, one too many s's
It is at
Clive
It is at
Clive
That's quite handy Clive.
But there's at least one error
The closing tag is wrong ;-)
Foamcow Heavy Industries - Web design and ranting
Buy Languedoc wines in the UK
But there's at least one error
Code:
<dl><dt> </dt><dd> </dd><dl>The closing tag is wrong ;-)
Foamcow Heavy Industries - Web design and ranting
Buy Languedoc wines in the UK
What a keen eye you have Foamcow. Thanks!
Clive
Clive
If you set it up right it's pretty good actually. Unless, of course you start using it's built in "behaviours" in which case, yes, the resulting Javascript is a bit over dramatic sometimes.
Hand coding is definitely better, but Dreamweaver can provide a nice stepping stone so you can get an idea of what HTML looks like.
Foamcow Heavy Industries - Web design and ranting
Buy Languedoc wines in the UK
I'll agree with FoamCow all the way on this one ... I prodominantly handcode now, but still do it in dreamweaver to keep an eye on things without having to preview my site over and over.
As for a learning tool I find it excelent, it allows a novice to create a website visualy in design view and then flick too and from the code view to see what code should look like.
Dreamweaver code isnt all that bad, its better than using FrontPage extensions at least lol
I think giving a novice who is working on a first project a book on HTML and a copy of windows notepad is a little ambitous, whilst it will teach them to code properly it is very time consuming and a little impractical as alot of people require a visual element to the learning process.
Rob
As for a learning tool I find it excelent, it allows a novice to create a website visualy in design view and then flick too and from the code view to see what code should look like.
Dreamweaver code isnt all that bad, its better than using FrontPage extensions at least lol
I think giving a novice who is working on a first project a book on HTML and a copy of windows notepad is a little ambitous, whilst it will teach them to code properly it is very time consuming and a little impractical as alot of people require a visual element to the learning process.
Rob
AtomicChip
Programmer
I think you should ditch the traditional way and just write a C++ IIS filter to dynamically spit pages out to a client.
But really...
I too, believe in hand-coding my HTML and JavaScript. I find that understanding the inner-workings of a language before using a tool (...and there is definitely more than one way to take "this code was generated by a tool"
) is always the best way to go. If for no other reason, then because once you get to using an IDE, you can easily tweak settings without a lot of frustration and hair-pulling.
That being said, as I (think I can) pretty much write HTML blindfolded with both hands tied behind my back, using only the big toe of my left foot, I tend to let my IDE of choice (Visual Studio.NET) generate most of my HTML for me. I find Visual Studio to do a "fairly" decent job of not bloating the code with unnecessary junk.
If you're looking for hand-coding editors, I strongly suggest Notepad++ ( No matter whether you get into hand coding or using IDE-generated stuff, if you're new to HTML check out
Now... To answer your original question "What do professionals use?"
Here's my answer:
I use a mix of:
- C# (ASP.NET)
- Flash
- SQL 2000 (Stored Procedures, Views, etc. - NOT dynamically-generated queries)
- HTML
- Javascript
Depending on how hardcore I feel like getting and the functionality needed for the site (or request from the client), I may also create a C++ filter for IIS (but I don't really know of any other web developer that does that).
-----------------------------------------------
"The night sky over the planet Krikkit is the least interesting sight in the entire universe."
-Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy
But really...
I too, believe in hand-coding my HTML and JavaScript. I find that understanding the inner-workings of a language before using a tool (...and there is definitely more than one way to take "this code was generated by a tool"
) is always the best way to go. If for no other reason, then because once you get to using an IDE, you can easily tweak settings without a lot of frustration and hair-pulling.That being said, as I (think I can) pretty much write HTML blindfolded with both hands tied behind my back, using only the big toe of my left foot, I tend to let my IDE of choice (Visual Studio.NET) generate most of my HTML for me. I find Visual Studio to do a "fairly" decent job of not bloating the code with unnecessary junk.
If you're looking for hand-coding editors, I strongly suggest Notepad++ ( No matter whether you get into hand coding or using IDE-generated stuff, if you're new to HTML check out
Now... To answer your original question "What do professionals use?"
Here's my answer:I use a mix of:
- C# (ASP.NET)
- Flash
- SQL 2000 (Stored Procedures, Views, etc. - NOT dynamically-generated queries)
- HTML
- Javascript
Depending on how hardcore I feel like getting and the functionality needed for the site (or request from the client), I may also create a C++ filter for IIS (but I don't really know of any other web developer that does that).
-----------------------------------------------
"The night sky over the planet Krikkit is the least interesting sight in the entire universe."
-Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy
Well, I hope the previous poster was talking about Visual Studio 2005, I won't mention my thoughts on 2003's HTML capabilities, that vocabularly might get me kicked outta here
I started with plain text, although at the time there weren't really any other options available to me. I think what helped me at that point was when I found a simple WYSIWIG editor. Basically one that would allow me to drop some stuff into my page but wouldn't rewrite my code if I went in and made hand changes. No comples scripting (although I'm not sure any browsers supported it, so maybe thats why it was missing
), etc.
I have only ever seen Dreamweaver code for ASP scripting, hopefully it is much much better with straight up HTML.
As far as what I use, I use Editplus or vi, depending on what OS I am on at the moment. In termsof languages, I started with HTML introduced some javascript, introduced some Server-side code (ASP), introduced some styles, introduced some XHTML, etc.
Personally I think the best path would be XHTML, add in some CSS, add in some javascript, go back and learn the difference between HTML and XHTML and sigh in relief as you realize you already know the more strict one, then add in some server-side code.
At this point I have used pretty much every HTML variant, XHTML, WML, CSS, Javascript, client-side VBScript, ASP, PHP, Perl (CGI and for ASP), Python (CGI and for ASP), JSP, Servlets, Applets (with the original RPC, not that new fangled easy stuff), a little flash, AJAX (because that ain't a real technology and existed before the acronym), SOAP, REST (heh, yep, another useless acronym), Sharepoint, DDRK, XML/XSLT, etc. There are probably very few I have never heard of and the only one in common usage that I can think of that I haven't used is Cold Fusion...and it all started with playing with Mosaic in my free time
I started with plain text, although at the time there weren't really any other options available to me. I think what helped me at that point was when I found a simple WYSIWIG editor. Basically one that would allow me to drop some stuff into my page but wouldn't rewrite my code if I went in and made hand changes. No comples scripting (although I'm not sure any browsers supported it, so maybe thats why it was missing
), etc.I have only ever seen Dreamweaver code for ASP scripting, hopefully it is much much better with straight up HTML.
As far as what I use, I use Editplus or vi, depending on what OS I am on at the moment. In termsof languages, I started with HTML introduced some javascript, introduced some Server-side code (ASP), introduced some styles, introduced some XHTML, etc.
Personally I think the best path would be XHTML, add in some CSS, add in some javascript, go back and learn the difference between HTML and XHTML and sigh in relief as you realize you already know the more strict one, then add in some server-side code.
At this point I have used pretty much every HTML variant, XHTML, WML, CSS, Javascript, client-side VBScript, ASP, PHP, Perl (CGI and for ASP), Python (CGI and for ASP), JSP, Servlets, Applets (with the original RPC, not that new fangled easy stuff), a little flash, AJAX (because that ain't a real technology and existed before the acronym), SOAP, REST (heh, yep, another useless acronym), Sharepoint, DDRK, XML/XSLT, etc. There are probably very few I have never heard of and the only one in common usage that I can think of that I haven't used is Cold Fusion...and it all started with playing with Mosaic in my free time
Hi
Feherke.
For the typos and missing closing tags part :Clive said:
Feherke.
harrymossman
Technical User
I hate Dreamweaver and agree that the "wysiwyg" view makes ugly looking code. A beginner looking at it is going to get confused. And it is easy for a beginner to make incorrect code with the DW wysiwyg view. If you are going to use DW, work mostly in the code view with the wysiwyg view turned on too, rather than the reverse.
Having said that, I do use DW for quick and dirty jobs. "Oh, by the way Harry, we are putting out a press release in an hour and need a web version to go up at the same time."
I like to code in Homesite - Quick previews, code autofill if I want it, validation tools, etc.
Having said that, I do use DW for quick and dirty jobs. "Oh, by the way Harry, we are putting out a press release in an hour and need a web version to go up at the same time."
I like to code in Homesite - Quick previews, code autofill if I want it, validation tools, etc.
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